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Livingston - all the threads merged


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utter pish. Your right it is undersirable and unpleasant, but there is no way that you'd fight for your club for a year under a mentalist owner only to rollover because other clubs fans don't like it.

It's not pish. I'd sooner support a reformed Raith in whatever level of non-league than have the rules bent for us like this.

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Given that Clyde had to sack their entire squad at the end of the season, can they now claim they can't actually afford to be relegated into Division Two and therefore have to remain in the First?

Can we?

What about at the end of the season if Deadston receive the weekly reaming they so richly deserve and end up in the relegation slot? "Oh, but we can't afford to go down! Our entire business plan is based on us being a 1st Division club!!"

"Shit! You're right! OK, just cancel promotion and relegation this season".

What a fucking farce this has become.

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And you've 'had' to watch them win promotions, finish third in the SPL, compete in Europe and win a cup, and even latterly be competetive in the first division, which has all been funded by unpayable debt. You weren't greetin' about pissing off local businesses & the football community in the glory days, so don't pull the 'woe is me' routine now the shits hitting the fan in the most minor way possible. "Boo hoo, people don't like us" - what a small price to pay, you should have been put down like a dying animal yesterday and you all know it.

You ask fans of other clubs to put themselves in a Livi supporter's shoes - how about the other way around? How about you put yourselves in the shoes of the clubs who cut their cloth accordingly, live within their means and as a result plod along in the second and third divisions getting no glory whatsoever (and yes, that is livi's true level), and then this bunch of shysters come along romp their way up the leagues cheating people out of millions of pounds to fund it - would you not have a little bit of a disliking for them? You wonder why so many people would have been happy to see then end of you?

We want to cut our cloth accordingly, we want to live within our means. We believe this is entirely possible. No one is asking for sympathy because we had some radge owners. You all keep harping on about what is best for scottish football. Seem to me as long as your club isn't in trouble it's dog-eat-dog and your long term proposal is that every club that has a problem should just GTF, leave more room for us. Deduct points, relegate us, whatever, your right, livi's natural level must be found through fiscal policy and reasonable spending. I don't however agree that obliteration of clubs in scotland is prudent planning for it's future.

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:o Seriously? You lot bring two men and a dug. You are taking the piss!

That's been part of the plan though! For the last 14 years, the massive Livi travelling support have been boycotting every away game as a pre-emptive response to this very backlash, the visionaries that they are.

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The League should be ran within the Stock Car season. March - October/November. That would solve alot of probelms, and played over the summer, more light etc.

Stock Cars are the future :lol:

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I did ask at one time, in times of such financial crisis, should games be played earlier on a Saturday (in winter) and no midweek games (or to a minimum) to minimise clubs outgoings. I was laughed at, but when we see the kind of bills clubs rack up on the leccy, perhaps it's time to think again.

That would be a sensible idea. Especially when money is tight and leccy bills are expensive.

It's already happened a few times in the past, where games have been played earlier, but I would miss the midweek games.

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The League should be ran within the Stock Car season. March - October/November. That would solve alot of probelms, and played over the summer, more light etc.

Stock Cars are the future :lol:

Has Gordon got plans in place for the stock car track round Almondvale?

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How the hell can you say most livi supporters are ashamed that either way creditors will lose out.

You, like the rest of us, have seen this coming for a long time. Did you, the livi supporters actually do any to raise mfunds to help your club so this present situation did not arise.

NO YOU DID NOT so dont come on here with your sanctimonious piety and crocodile tears.

You are a bancrupt company that should suffer the same fate as all other bancrupt companies.

We were lied to over and over again, some saw this coming for a while, but not the majority. FFS, your chairmen still have to vote, we livi fans are still preparing for the worst. If the vote goes through who do you blame then? oh, and the trust has generated 10 grand since it was clear what was actually happening.

As to the point of bankrupcy, this is an incredibly common way to avoid paying creditors as is fankly, CVA.

oh and as for your "sanctimonious piety and crocodile tears", I think you know where you can stick it. My club might have pissed you off, but I'm just some guy, like you, so don't get too full of yourself.

Edited by larry the lion
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No one at livi is proud of the way our last three owners have handeld the club, especially the last owner who faced protests from furious livi fans. He has brought us as low as it can get, and frankly, in opposition to the desires and beliefs of the community as a whole he has single handedly brought us to our knees once again. There is an argument that says , "why should livi get away with it?" this could be countered by "why should one man destroy a communities club". I'm sure the more tribalistic amongst you will say ' "Fcuk livi, not going to their games", as a supporter of your team I would think that was a bit shit for your team, no away team every time we play at home? Should give us a nice advantage (if you really want to be that generous). Also, if the Livi contingency decide to return the favour, I think a few clubs would suffer more than we would. In fact, if the Livi fans that stayed away from away games donated direct to the new regime, the it might work out well for everyone. Yes, I am being nasty, but you guys are tarring and feathering every single honest livi fan who has had to watch their club getting a new hole torn, pissing local businesses off (lots of whom are livi fans) and hacking off the entire footballing community in scotland. I'm sure you are wondering why the SFL are going to ask their members to vote (they can always say no remember), simple, Massone is one gaffe away from being sectioned and they can see Livi is a viable proposition for filling the fixtures next season. It's too late to do anything else.

I know there is no chance cause you are all big tough guys, but a little empathy can go a long way. I can think of a couple of livi fans who bought shares in Stiring Albion to try and help them out, scottish football needs to galvanise to survive, not keep clamouring to climb on each others shoulders, at this moment, footballing success i.e. promotion, is the kiss of death for any club living outwith their means as we have been made to do by Massone and previous chairmen.

You really are not doing your cause any good at all with posts like this. You have just 100% made up my mind to never again give a single solitary bean to your "football club" ever again. Congratulations Larry.

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I think the SFL have been seduced by the image that Livi are a 'big club' and as such would rather have them than a 'small club' like Spartans/ Annan etc.

The problem is that Livi are not a big club.

They may have a nice stadium, but they don't own it and can't afford it

They may have a goodish squad, but they have shown they can't pay them

They have a cost base that they are not prepared to pay for

They have a smallish fan base that is no bigger than others

They have a history which was bought (I don't mean the Meadowbank years, I mean the SPL/ League Cup that was 'paid for' by the first administration)

If Longmuir has stated that they will be kept in the 1st because that is what their business plan is predicated on, then he truly is a fool of the highest order. The market will decide where Livi should be - the market has decided that 1st Div football is unsustainable for Livi (as evidenced by the huge debts), so the answer is pimp out the club to the next sugar daddy to bankroll the club, claiming 'it will be different this time'.

If I was a chairman of another club, I'd want to know what plans Livi have to cut their cost base to match their income base (I mean their current income base, not some pie in the sky plan from the latest 'messiahs' to walk into dodge). Because without evidence of this cost cutting I would claim that Livi would still have an unfair advantage over those clubs trying to live within their means - one that a 10 point deduction would not be able to address. Also Livi would be back next year for the next semester of 'football unsustainability 101'.

Never forget that Livingston have effectively been able to write off £11,500,000 of debt in the past five years. That's eleven and a half million of competitive advantage they have been allowed to revel in over and above what everyone else has had to play with. Now imagine if every club had been given the green light to blow eleven million quid over the last five years or so. Would Livvy ever have reached the spl? I think the answer is no. Would they have won a CIS Cup? Again, no.

They were (and remain) the benchmark for disreputable conduct in Scottish professional football. It sticks in the craw that they want to be good and honest neighbours, but not just yet. They want to screw the creditors one more time, then (and only then) will they wish to play with a straight bat.

That Rankine has morphed from being a complete chancer to the saviour with a few mealy mouthed words and promises puts him in exactly the same place as Hunter, Keane, Flynn and Massone. That the Livvy support do not question why he is there is nothing new either. The words "Trust" and "Community based" seem to be enough for them to believe.

For me, it'll take a long long time before my cynicism for all things Livingston abates. A lifetime's experience tells me that this club is about to set off on another journey where A to B will not be a straight line, and it'll be one where council officials might well be climbing under the duvet with yet more individuals who are as dubious as they themselves are. Time will tell.

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Has Gordon got plans in place for the stock car track round Almondvale?

Nah, i would very much doubt he would do anything of the sort, as it is pretty much impossible. Stands would need to be moved/knocked down, and there is no extra room (plus pitting area, noise etc) at the staduim between pitch, and sand.

Over at Cowdenbeath, there are new European laws, that the pitch has to be minimum length and width, which was expanded, so they have to make the pitch bigger, and last i heard, have to knock down a couple of walls at either end, and there's the 'Lochgelly Motorsport Complex' that is getting built, not that far away either.

No chance of Stock Cars coming to West Lothian.

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That would be a sensible idea. Especially when money is tight and leccy bills are expensive.

It's already happened a few times in the past, where games have been played earlier, but I would miss the midweek games.

Could we not replace all the floodlight bulbs with low energy ones?

Would need to switch them on at 9am to give them time to brighten up, right enough.

Or have luminous shirts and a luminous ball?

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What a fucking farce this has become.

I fully agree. I still can't quite believe what has happened, it's just simply stunning!

That Livi maintain thier Div1 status, and with the possibility that they won't even suffer a points deduction, is incredible when they have blatently overspent behond thier means to do so. The SFL are just an innefectual, self-preservational set of clowns. I have no desire to see any football club die but I hope that this decision comes back to bite the SFL big time!!!

Ravelin

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You really are not doing your cause any good at all with posts like this. You have just 100% made up my mind to never again give a single solitary bean to your "football club" ever again. Congratulations Larry.

sorry if you deliberatly missed the attempt at sarcasm. I was trying to highlight the negativity of this type of thinking, perhaps I am too involved to post clearly. I would rather we all helped each other, but clearly I am on a hiding to nothing. Shame your so easily swayed right enough.

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Could we not replace all the floodlight bulbs with low energy ones?

Would need to switch them on at 9am to give them time to brighten up, right enough.

Or have luminous shirts and a luminous ball?

What about handing out night vision goggles to all the fans and players?

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wrong. LFC has a 125 year lease. property dev (at this point) is a red herring.

I think if you investigate further you will find that they have a lease on the ground but can build what they want on it.

No red herring, FACT!!

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I will research and digest more before I return to rip the slimey, cheating, b**tards to shreds.

Thanks for your support :rolleyes:

No-one is suggesting what has been done in terms of debts outstanding is right, but just because 1 man decides to run up 7 figures of debt does not mean the SFL need to kill another football club.

I am pretty certain Livi FC will live within its means & that might see us dropping down the leagues in the coming years, but I'd rather have that than not having a club to support.

I'd expect us to be at the bottom end of the 1st Division this year and might even end up in the second division next year, but I'd be delighted at that because yesterday I didn't think there was going to be a Livi FC.

Thanks to all the 'real' football supporters' out there that offered Livi fans support and messages of good luck - you are a credit to Scottish Fitba :D

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