Livingston - all the threads merged

[Lambo1885]

The two largest creditors are the council and Inland revenue,my understanding is that they will be paid in full and a cva set for the rest.

Oh well, that makes evrything okay then.

[PELE]

Dear God I've heard it all now.

If this goes through. Where does that leave rules and standards? It looks to me like whoever is responsible ate the rule book, decapitated David Longmuir, and shat it down the hole in his neck. Then wiped his arse on the curtains and left without washing his hands.

If what goes through?

[MAC THE KNIFE]

are Livi the new Motherwell ?

Change the rules to save them ?

I take it Mr Mc has got his Court payment from Cowden

In answer to a very earlier Post a lot of the active Meadowbank " hard core , Brake Club " fans actually are on the Board at Edinburgh City , Buckie Thistle & Peebles & also do Kids / School football or involved with The Shire

Others have Emigrated to England & Switzerland

[thruthenight]

That is all.

[PELE]

Ok it's been answered but I'll chip in. Do I have evidence? No. But I was told this by a reliable source and have absolutely no reason to doubt it (I didn't mean incidentally that the whole SFL formally approached them en masse). In any case if you can say "Not being able to prove that something did not happen does not therefore mean that it did", then I can say not being able to prove something happened doesn't mean it didn't.

As for Bill Barr knew they were chancers and dealt with them accordingly, can I ask who "they" were? And how did he deal with them accordingly? By managing to negotiate himself into a position where he had to bankroll a club that wasn't his until the end of the season before getting f vck all of the money he was allegedly due and missing out on the stadium he lusted after. Well played Bill (and may he continue to p1ss and sh 1t himself involuntary for many years to come).

Can I also say that I understand bankruptcy. It's strange you brought up the fact that Airdrie were due money left right and centre (you obviously feel strongly about that) yet were celebrating Livingston dodging paying their debt for a SECOND (possibly third?) time. Bit of a contradiction. You do make an interesting point about it's about the assets you have etc, given Livi have none, but regardless of all that if everyone is allowed to transfer league membership to a new company whilst liquidating the old then ANY amount of debt is serviceable. It becomes irrelevant and the SFL are setting a dangerous precedent.

Finally, good shout regarding "your" and "you are". I made a mistake. I think you come out of it looking an even bigger tw@ t though, especially with the nice smiley face you've added. Nice touch.

Ultimately I have no issue with Livi being saved – I didn't actually want them to go out of business. I do have major issues with proposed rule changes that were not allowed to be considered for any other club however.

I e-mailed the league at the time of Clydebank's demise and they actually replied. They stated that Clydebank's position was up for grabs for any takers.

[unthinkable]

Today, a room at Hampden Park. 2pm.

SFL: "Hi Mr McGruther. Oh, hello Mr McDougall, Mr Nixon and Mr....Rankine, you're here as well? Oh well, the more the merrier."

Coffee is poured and the hobnobs are passed around. Chit-chat forms around the weather, the big M74 crane and Celtic being beaten in europe.

SFL: "Ok Mr McGruther, can Livingston fulfil their fixtures this season?"

McGruther: "Well, no. The club is hopelessly insolvent and I can't even guarantee getting them through to the weekend. I have already started laying off admin staff. Debts are £1.7m and the owner Angelo Massone has refused to sell his shares for £25k. He has even refused to sell after having the deadline extended."

SFL: "I see. Well as you have said liquidation is the next step, we will have to revoke the club's SFL membership. Too bad."

McGruther: "Well..."

SFL: "Did you say something Mr McGruther?"

McGruther: "Well, how is this for a plan. The three men beside me are going to work together for the good of the club. Mr McDougall and Mr Rankine have agreed to fund the club for a year and in that time will try and persuade Angelo to sell his shares, thus giving them control of the club. If not, we would need the SFL to change the rules regarding the transfer of league membership so that we could wind up Livingston FC plc next summer and transfer membership to Livingston 2010 FC or something like that, dodging those pesky creditors in the process."

SFL: "You aren't suggesting we just pretend Massone doesn't exist and allow the club to continue in its present shambolic state in the hope that the idiot Italian eventually goes home are you?"

McGruther: "Yes. Furthermore, you won't have to worry about inconveniencies such as promoting two clubs at five minutes' notice and running nine-team leagues. And should the rule change take place, your members can run up as much debt as they like knowing there is a tasty wee escape route built into the rulebook."

SFL: "My oh my. What a deal! Never mind what the great unwashed think. Never mind that Livi stayed in the first division last season on false pretences by signing players and "eventually" paying wages they couldn't afford ahead of paying the rent and paying the taxman. Never mind that they virtually brought the game into disrepute. Never mind that you have already been in administration and not learned their lesson. Never mind that they have left small businesses in the county whistling in the dark..."

McGruther: "I like your style."

SFL: "And I like yours. We will baffle everyone with technicalities saying that Livi aren't even in administration or liquidation! You are only here Mr McGruther because, er, well you are a good man, that's why."

Rankine (leaning in, spotty tie captivating a clearly excited Brown McMaster): "Do we have a wee deal here by the way?"

SFL: "You're damn right we do! Brilliant stuff. I'll fetch my bottle of Glenfiddich and we can have a toast. Well done chaps! I thought I would have a tough decision to make today..."

All that can be heard behind closed doors is the sound of laughter and glasses clunking.

Probably scarily accurate and actually hits home just how ridiculous the situation has been handled.

[qos_75]

Anyone think we will see anything more than a 3 point deduction?

I didn't want to see them fold but at the same time I did want to see a heavy penalty. Relegation to the 3rd with a 30 point penalty next season. Now if they stay in the 1st I would like to see a 50 point penalty imposed.

[PELE]

are Livi the new Motherwell ?

Change the rules to save them ?

I take it Mr Mc has got his Court payment from Cowden

In answer to a very earlier Post a lot of the active Meadowbank " hard core , Brake Club " fans actually are on the Board at Edinburgh City , Buckie Thistle & Peebles & also do Kids / School football or involved with The Shire

Others have Emigrated to England & Switzerland

Re McD, I don't believe he has. I am not sure that he has actually gone to court for it.

[Swampy]

Anyone think we will see anything more than a 3 point deduction?

3 points and 30k fine?

[lividihard]

to all the fannies on here dancing about when they thought we were dead and buried

G.I.R.F.U.Y

[bsd]

Surely for Livingston to continue as a football club they are going to have to deal with other businesses on a day to day basis.

Which businesses local or otherwise will be mad enough to deal with this bunch.

"What do you mean you need payment for your services. What madness is this? Can you wait a year or so then we can offer you a fraction of what we owe? If you're lucky"

[stuartcraig]

I didn't want to see them fold but at the same time I did want to see a heavy penalty. Relegation to the 3rd with a 30 point penalty next season. Now if they stay in the 1st I would like to see a 50 point penalty imposed.

Is that not like giving someone a 1000 year jail sentence.

Better to give them a 25 point penalty two seasons in a row.

Stuart

[thejailender]

I didn't want to see them fold but at the same time I did want to see a heavy penalty. Relegation to the 3rd with a 30 point penalty next season. Now if they stay in the 1st I would like to see a 50 point penalty imposed.

One thing that was said the other week was that a 9 team first division would not be good as it would mean no relegation battle in the first division. A duduction of 20 points or more for livingston would almost mean the exact same thing.

Considering that the SFL have accepted this today (which I think is wrong) the very least they should have done is demoted Livingston to the third division. That way ensuring real competition in all the leagues.

[southview]

Are they? And this has been confirmed where?

Not sure about the Revenue but the Council are owed £330,000 aren't they? Massone was suggested on this thread to be owed £500,000 a good few pages back. Was that wrong or is it only the two largest creditors outwith Massone that are to be paid in full? I thought the Council had intimated they'd be prepared to accept a lesser amount from a new owner anyway?

According to McGruther, I read that Massone was apparently due £290,000.

[Guest Lion_Rampant]

I'd like to think that any other teams' fans would have been far more proactive in ensuring that it never got a far as today. However the majority of Livi's fans, save for a few on here, seem far more content to sit back and wait for the next saviour to appear out of thin air. Screaming of blue murder would have been done quite a while back.

Really? One of the hardest things to deal with through this whole thing is the feeling of powerlessness. As a supporter you can be as proactive as you want to be and come up with a whole range of ideas etc etc but with a man like Massone at the helm theres pretty much feck all you can do. Surely you have seen some of Massone's interviews? The guy is a complete joke and really he turned down any kind of help offered to him before it was all too late. You come back to me when this happens to your club and tell me that you would have been more proactive.

[Pesadilla]

Anyone think we will see anything more than a 3 point deduction?

It'll be 15 points. No fine as it simply wont get paid. Relegation certainties. Livi fans will take that now though.

One thing that was said the other week was that a 9 team first division would not be good as it would mean no relegation battle in the first division. A duduction of 20 points or more for livingston would almost mean the exact same thing.

Considering that the SFL have accepted this today (which I think is wrong) the very least they should have done is demoted Livingston to the third division. That way ensuring real competition in all the leagues.

As the fixture lists are out, the SPL have bent over backwards to prevent an "embarrassing situation".

At least we wont be handed a full season of spankings next year.

Congratulations Livi fans.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Pesadilla

[qos_75]

Is that not like giving someone a 1000 year jail sentence.

Better to give them a 25 point penalty two seasons in a row.

Stuart

Good point. Your punishment is much better. Also suspend any prize money until all creditors have been paid in full.

[PELE]

to all the fannies on here dancing about when they thought we were dead and buried

G.I.R.F.U.Y

I would not be too smug. Livi are still well and truly on the brink.

[Sergeant Wilson]

So once again, we shall ask the question, if Ballantyne was encouraged by the SFL as alleged to devour Clydebank, why did they approach UEFA and then subsequently change the rules to prevent it happening again?

Maybe they were checking that it would be allowed to pass before closing a loophole (One the present incumbents blew wide open today). I can't provide proof but I was told by Ballantyne, Bryan Jackson of PKF,members of the SFL and SFA that it would be looked favourably on. You have to remember at the time the SFL thought things were bad (little did they know) they'd had Airdrie, Hamilton and Clydebank all on shit street. It was that seasons convenient get out of jail card.

[Guest Lion_Rampant]

I didn't want to see them fold but at the same time I did want to see a heavy penalty. Relegation to the 3rd with a 30 point penalty next season. Now if they stay in the 1st I would like to see a 50 point penalty imposed.

If we had been relegated to the 3rd especially with a heavy point penalty then we would have folded.