Jump to content

Livingston - all the threads merged


Recommended Posts

Chuffed isn't the word. I can understand perfectly well why fans of other club may hate us, but I feel that there really will be a sea change in the way our club is run after tonight. I can't remember ad verbatim what all was said but you know what? Without sounding xenophobic, it was actually just pretty good to hear a top table in the Almondvale Suite not talk utter rancid keech for once.

What I do remember ( and I may be corrected) is that the two main creditors WILL be paid in full.

That's interesting to hear but suggest that the butcher and baker et al won't be.

Relieved is probably the word that is best applied to the mood of the Livi fans.

I still think loads of questions need answered as to how this deal has come together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

boo fuckin hoo who gives a shit what you think...looks like we will still be about in some form in the 1st division next season :P

Wipe that smug grin off your face Asshole, you aint saved yet. Just the type of response expected from a livi fan.

Quote

What I do remember ( and I may be corrected) is that the two main creditors WILL be paid in full. Unquote

What about the small businesses some who are supporters of livi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chuffed isn't the word. I can understand perfectly well why fans of other club may hate us, but I feel that there really will be a sea change in the way our club is run after tonight.

I don't want to piss on your parade, but I've been to meetings where the prospective saviour of a club makes the right noises. They didn't follow through on their promises in that instance.

I'm not saying that this will happen again, but I would have thought that Livi fans at least would have developed a healthy sense of sceptism having been through this on 3 occasions now.

What I do remember ( and I may be corrected) is that the two main creditors WILL be paid in full.

I would have thought the taxman wouldn't accept anything less than 100% by default.

Stuart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh well, it appears that any new board will "livi within their means".

Sames promisies as the last 4 owners over the last 14 years.

Subject of course to any hasty rule changes - but not, of course, not to benefit just one team/excuse but for the betterment of Scottish league football in general.

One idea for the SFL - why not get a credable non-league team with a suitable stadium and promote them directly to Division 1? Overcome all sorts of problems identified. But yet again, the SFL administrators working for their paymasters, the SFL Blazers, come up with a shambles of a fudged solution.

QUestion.. I have not got access to the SFL rules and regulations - but can the SFL change the rules/regulations during the course of a season and impact the outcome of that season?

Idea - time for people on this site if they are truely up in armsof this disgrace to write to Audit Scotland, the Internal Audit Department of West Lothian council and make representations to their MSP/MP requesting an investigation to the actions and behaviour of the council, its elected representatives and appointed officials in the whole Livi affair and actions of suggested and alledged "insider dealings" between them and the 3 parties involved inthe "take over" of Livi, and the "favourable terms" deals offered to one council tennant and tax payer as opposed to the majority.

On a positive note - looks like LLD and Phanton will have a team to follow next season! Enjoy and be proud!

Oh.. if does the Trust and the true Livi fans have any share and say in the operation of this "consortium"? What %-age of say/ownership will it have? Anything close to significant, or maybe only a wagging tail that will be covered in shit the next time the dog up front decides to piss and shit everywhere?

Lastly, what pence in the pound is be proposed as a repayment amount by the alledged new owners?

Edited by ObserverFromAfar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MalckyB
In the crazy world of Livi, that is probabaly who they mean! :lol:

The two largest creditors are the council and Inland revenue,my understanding is that they will be paid in full and a cva set for the rest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Lion_Rampant
I hope Angelo goes round to Almondvale and sets it alight for the insurance money. There is no way Livi should be in business, they treat everyone with contempt and continually cheat, and they get away with it. There should be a boycott by all local businesses against the club. If Cowden & other smaller clubs were in this position , we would have been left to die.

A little harsh cowdenphil? take a chill pill phil :D

And im pretty sure that if cowden were in this position you would not have been sreaming bloody murder. You would have been hoping and praying that the sfl would have done what they done with livi today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

boo fuckin hoo who gives a shit what you think...looks like we will still be about in some form in the 1st division next season :P

It's nice to see that the embarrassing events which have taken place at your club over the past few months have left you with a strongly developed sense of humility.

Were you an "Ambassador" by any chance?

Stuart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Lion_Rampant
Perhaps this is the best way to illustrate what happened today.

739413.jpg

I really hope not or that was one f***ed up meeting :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not long in either, thanks for clearing it up. However, what's is the vote going to be about? Is it changing the rules to something like the English version, and will all the clubs get a vote?

I totally agree with you WTM. Change really is needed in Scottish football from top to bottom. There are too many blazers from the SPL, SFA to the SFL, interested only in themselves and not the good of the game as a whole in this country.

We only need one association and badly need league reconstruction to include a pyramid system and promotion with at least two up and two down from all divisions. How difficult can that be to implement? If the incumbents feel they cannot achieve this, then they should stand aside and let those who can take over.

I agree. Although the problem with the pyramid system is the lack of national leagues outwith the SFL. We have a Highland League at one end of the country, the East of Scotland league covering the lothians and borders and a variety of junior leagues ( who do not follow the same rules and higher standards of the SFL teams ). I don't see the junior teams competing on a regular basis under the league rules and I am not sure they would like to anyway.

I think the only way forward is for a new league/s to be set up which operates beneath the Scottish Leagues. This could be made up of teams from the Highland League, East of Scotland League and any others who wished to join. The winners could then swap places with the bottom of the 3rd Division each season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

boo fuckin hoo who gives a shit what you think...looks like we will still be about in some form in the 1st division next season :P

Its only a prolonged stay of execution for your lot, more misery for the rest of us having to listen to this pish, oh nad its only for a year max if I heard right, after that your well and truely going need more than fukin prayers....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And im pretty sure that if cowden were in this position you would not have been sreaming bloody murder. You would have been hoping and praying that the sfl would have done what they done with livi today.

I'd like to think that any other teams' fans would have been far more proactive in ensuring that it never got a far as today. However the majority of Livi's fans, save for a few on here, seem far more content to sit back and wait for the next saviour to appear out of thin air. Screaming of blue murder would have been done quite a while back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To SD & others, sorry, I should have clarified. HMRC and WLC were indeed the two creditors mentioned. The only other mention of other creditors was that there would be a CVA which would hopefully be agreed.

Although the mood at the meeting was one of relief a fair few people, myself included, are absolutely under no illusions. This is the first hurdle that will MAYBE be cleared, indeed it will only lead to more hurdles - but at least we're off the starting blocks, in my eyes anyway.

With regard to hearing it all before StuartCraig - I know exactly where you're coming from. Pearse Flynn was probably one of the most personable folk I've ever listened to, and turned out be a shyster supreme. So aye, I am wary. But honestly, I just get the impression from the guys at the top table tonight that the mistakes of past regimes WILL NOT be repeated.

I for one sincerely hope they are right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The two largest creditors are the council and Inland revenue,my understanding is that they will be paid in full and a cva set for the rest.

Are they? And this has been confirmed where?

Not sure about the Revenue but the Council are owed £330,000 aren't they? Massone was suggested on this thread to be owed £500,000 a good few pages back. Was that wrong or is it only the two largest creditors outwith Massone that are to be paid in full? I thought the Council had intimated they'd be prepared to accept a lesser amount from a new owner anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To SD & others, sorry, I should have clarified. HMRC and WLC were indeed the two creditors mentioned. The only other mention of other creditors was that there would be a CVA which would hopefully be agreed.

Sorry, previous post crossed with this one.

There's no question the HMRC have to be paid in full. They won't agree to a CVA. I'm not sure I'd be happy as an ordinary creditor to agree to one if WLC are getting paid in full though. I would be asking why they are entitled to a bigger share of the pot than me?

If that's what's being implied anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today, a room at Hampden Park. 2pm.

SFL: "Hi Mr McGruther. Oh, hello Mr McDougall, Mr Nixon and Mr....Rankine, you're here as well? Oh well, the more the merrier."

Coffee is poured and the hobnobs are passed around. Chit-chat forms around the weather, the big M74 crane and Celtic being beaten in europe.

SFL: "Ok Mr McGruther, can Livingston fulfil their fixtures this season?"

McGruther: "Well, no. The club is hopelessly insolvent and I can't even guarantee getting them through to the weekend. I have already started laying off admin staff. Debts are £1.7m and the owner Angelo Massone has refused to sell his shares for £25k. He has even refused to sell after having the deadline extended."

SFL: "I see. Well as you have said liquidation is the next step, we will have to revoke the club's SFL membership. Too bad."

McGruther: "Well..."

SFL: "Did you say something Mr McGruther?"

McGruther: "Well, how is this for a plan. The three men beside me are going to work together for the good of the club. Mr McDougall and Mr Rankine have agreed to fund the club for a year and in that time will try and persuade Angelo to sell his shares, thus giving them control of the club. If not, we would need the SFL to change the rules regarding the transfer of league membership so that we could wind up Livingston FC plc next summer and transfer membership to Livingston 2010 FC or something like that, dodging those pesky creditors in the process."

SFL: "You aren't suggesting we just pretend Massone doesn't exist and allow the club to continue in its present shambolic state in the hope that the idiot Italian eventually goes home are you?"

McGruther: "Yes. Furthermore, you won't have to worry about inconveniencies such as promoting two clubs at five minutes' notice and running nine-team leagues. And should the rule change take place, your members can run up as much debt as they like knowing there is a tasty wee escape route built into the rulebook."

SFL: "My oh my. What a deal! Never mind what the great unwashed think. Never mind that Livi stayed in the first division last season on false pretences by signing players and "eventually" paying wages they couldn't afford ahead of paying the rent and paying the taxman. Never mind that they virtually brought the game into disrepute. Never mind that you have already been in administration and not learned their lesson. Never mind that they have left small businesses in the county whistling in the dark..."

McGruther: "I like your style."

SFL: "And I like yours. We will baffle everyone with technicalities saying that Livi aren't even in administration or liquidation! You are only here Mr McGruther because, er, well you are a good man, that's why."

Rankine (leaning in, spotty tie captivating a clearly excited Brown McMaster): "Do we have a wee deal here by the way?"

SFL: "You're damn right we do! Brilliant stuff. I'll fetch my bottle of Glenfiddich and we can have a toast. Well done chaps! I thought I would have a tough decision to make today..."

All that can be heard behind closed doors is the sound of laughter and glasses clunking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree. Although the problem with the pyramid system is the lack of national leagues outwith the SFL. We have a Highland League at one end of the country, the East of Scotland league covering the lothians and borders and a variety of junior leagues ( who do not follow the same rules and higher standards of the SFL teams ). I don't see the junior teams competing on a regular basis under the league rules and I am not sure they would like to anyway.

I think the only way forward is for a new league/s to be set up which operates beneath the Scottish Leagues. This could be made up of teams from the Highland League, East of Scotland League and any others who wished to join. The winners could then swap places with the bottom of the 3rd Division each season.

Dear God I've heard it all now.

If this goes through. Where does that leave rules and standards? It looks to me like whoever is responsible ate the rule book, decapitated David Longmuir, and shat it down the hole in his neck. Then wiped his arse on the curtains and left without washing his hands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you have a shred of proof that the SFL did anything of the sort? No, because it is bullshit.

The SFL and SFA actually approached UEFA to see if they had any way of stopping it, and were told thanks to the antiquated rulebook they were working under, the answer was no. The fact the rules were changed afterwards to stop it from happening again shows that they most certainly did not approve, let alone encourage it!

Bill Barr knew chancers when he saw them, and dealt with them accordingly.

The amount a club owes has nothing to do whether it goes under or not - it's what assets they have and the chance of being able to at least service the debt.

Try to understand the mechanics of bankruptcy before spouting off "it's soooo unfair, they owed more than us, waaaaah!" Businesses operate on a different level to "the change in ma pocket, mon." economics.

Actually, your inability to tell the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE (contraction of YOU ARE) show you up to be an absolute retard :lol:

Still the only "fans" in Scotland who thought dressing as Jew-baiting racists was funny - even Rangers fans would never have gone that far.

Ok it's been answered but I'll chip in. Do I have evidence? No. But I was told this by a reliable source and have absolutely no reason to doubt it (I didn't mean incidentally that the whole SFL formally approached them en masse). In any case if you can say "Not being able to prove that something did not happen does not therefore mean that it did", then I can say not being able to prove something happened doesn't mean it didn't.

As for Bill Barr knew they were chancers and dealt with them accordingly, can I ask who "they" were? And how did he deal with them accordingly? By managing to negotiate himself into a position where he had to bankroll a club that wasn't his until the end of the season before getting f vck all of the money he was allegedly due and missing out on the stadium he lusted after. Well played Bill (and may he continue to p1ss and sh 1t himself involuntary for many years to come).

Can I also say that I understand bankruptcy. It's strange you brought up the fact that Airdrie were due money left right and centre (you obviously feel strongly about that) yet were celebrating Livingston dodging paying their debt for a SECOND (possibly third?) time. Bit of a contradiction. You do make an interesting point about it's about the assets you have etc, given Livi have none, but regardless of all that if everyone is allowed to transfer league membership to a new company whilst liquidating the old then ANY amount of debt is serviceable. It becomes irrelevant and the SFL are setting a dangerous precedent.

Finally, good shout regarding "your" and "you are". I made a mistake. I think you come out of it looking an even bigger tw@ t though, especially with the nice smiley face you’ve added. Nice touch.

Ultimately I have no issue with Livi being saved – I didn’t actually want them to go out of business. I do have major issues with proposed rule changes that were not allowed to be considered for any other club however.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today, a room at Hampden Park. 2pm.

SFL: "Hi Mr McGruther. Oh, hello Mr McDougall, Mr Nixon and Mr....Rankine, you're here as well? Oh well, the more the merrier."

Coffee is poured and the hobnobs are passed around. Chit-chat forms around the weather, the big M74 crane and Celtic being beaten in europe.

SFL: "Ok Mr McGruther, can Livingston fulfil their fixtures this season?"

McGruther: "Well, no. The club is hopelessly insolvent and I can't even guarantee getting them through to the weekend. I have already started laying off admin staff. Debts are £1.7m and the owner Angelo Massone has refused to sell his shares for £25k. He has even refused to sell after having the deadline extended."

SFL: "I see. Well as you have said liquidation is the next step, we will have to revoke the club's SFL membership. Too bad."

McGruther: "Well..."

SFL: "Did you say something Mr McGruther?"

McGruther: "Well, how is this for a plan. The three men beside me are going to work together for the good of the club. Mr McDougall and Mr Rankine have agreed to fund the club for a year and in that time will try and persuade Angelo to sell his shares, thus giving them control of the club. If not, we would need the SFL to change the rules regarding the transfer of league membership so that we could wind up Livingston FC plc next summer and transfer membership to Livingston 2010 FC or something like that, dodging those pesky creditors in the process."

SFL: "You aren't suggesting we just pretend Massone doesn't exist and allow the club to continue in its present shambolic state in the hope that the idiot Italian eventually goes home are you?"

McGruther: "Yes. Furthermore, you won't have to worry about inconveniencies such as promoting two clubs at five minutes' notice and running nine-team leagues. And should the rule change take place, your members can run up as much debt as they like knowing there is a tasty wee escape route built into the rulebook."

SFL: "My oh my. What a deal! Never mind what the great unwashed think. Never mind that Livi stayed in the first division last season on false pretences by signing players and "eventually" paying wages they couldn't afford ahead of paying the rent and paying the taxman. Never mind that they virtually brought the game into disrepute. Never mind that you have already been in administration and not learned their lesson. Never mind that they have left small businesses in the county whistling in the dark..."

McGruther: "I like your style."

SFL: "And I like yours. We will baffle everyone with technicalities saying that Livi aren't even in administration or liquidation! You are only here Mr McGruther because, er, well you are a good man, that's why."

Rankine (leaning in, spotty tie captivating a clearly excited Brown McMaster): "Do we have a wee deal here by the way?"

SFL: "You're damn right we do! Brilliant stuff. I'll fetch my bottle of Glenfiddich and we can have a toast. Well done chaps! I thought I would have a tough decision to make today..."

All that can be heard behind closed doors is the sound of laughter and glasses clunking.

Were you taking the minutes Southview? I feel as if I was there. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...