southview Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I've mostly defended the SFL up to now but I'm very concerned about this. I'm struggling to see any justification at all for this afternoon's fuge. Anyone going to volunteer to attempt one? I can't remember what page I posted regarding this, but I speculated as to how the SFL would fudge this one. Here's "maybe" what they were thinking. *The SFL felt that a club should not be allowed to go to the wall because their owner was clearly a deluded idiot with absolutely no respect/comprehension for the rules. Quite a decision to make, especially given that it is one at their discretion. How do you define which chairmen are crazy and those who are not (clearly there is no doubting which one Massone is but that's not the point). *By expelling Livi, Airdrie and Cowdenbeath's plans would be thrown into chaos. Is this reason enough to do a fudge? I am sure some Airdrie fans are pleased they won't be going up to the first division and can carry on as normal, but Livi being allowed to trade as a first division club with masses of debt that is being chased through the courts may be something that sits uneasy with them, especially given the fact that Livi clearly paid players more than they could afford and said to hell with the bills while Airdrie met their commitments. *It's unfair on third division clubs to be in a 9-team league. Again, is this reason to bend over backwards for Livi? A compensation agreement would have gone some way to appeasing the third division clubs for the loss of four games. Does anyone know what will happen in a year if Massone still refuses to walk? Will McDougall/Rankine say enough is enough? Also, are they in administration or not? If not, why is McGruther there and why talk of CVAs? Is the plan to put them in full administration. There are so many questions that need answered here. Remember, it was McGruther who painted the dire picture of liquidation unless deadlines were met. In order for the SFL to regain a bit of respect in my eyes, they need to enforce a stiff points deduction and ban them from signing players straight away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Quote Just had a look on their website, and spotted this.... Unquote That was up at around 12.30 today and then disappeared when the site went down. Quote the easiest and preferred way for everyone would be for Massone to take the money and walk. Unquote What so almost all the debt is written off and the small guy loses out yet again. That is the easy and preferred way for livi fans and the club. I would suggest the easy and preferred way, by most football supporters, is to liquidate livi and finish them once and for all. Even though creditors will get nothing. I wasnt joking when i said fans should avoid, like the plague, all games at almondvale. It would not take a lot of effort for a supporters group of any given club to collect the gate monies from clubs fans and give it to there own club. Theres been a lot of hard talking on here about this situation. Maost appear not to like the SFL decision. A boycott would not help livi and it would send a clear message to the SFL and other clubs chairmen. Do nothing, and all your talk on here would amount to meaningless garbage, so take the opportunity presented to you and make a stand or forever shut up with such or any future such situations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Well I was at Almondvale tonight at a meeting hosted by the trust and the new regime and it was made ultra clear to all in the room that the club will live within its means from today onwards and if that means finding its level in a lower league then so be it.The Massone,Flynn and Keane days of buying success and financial recklessness are gone now forever.As fans of the club we can only hope that is indeed the case. I take it everyone was chuffed tonight then? What else was said? How are the new regime going to address the issue of debts, especially the one to the taxman? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lion_Rampant Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 You really are a fucking c**t. Awwwww don't cry Jay7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MacLean Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Why should Brown McMaster worry about a Club transfering it's membership of the SFL to another Club/ This being Brown McMaster, former Director and Chair of Partick Thistle, who is now a director of Stenhousemuir. I'm sure he went to Ochilview because of a deep love of Stenny. Or perhaps he did so to hang onto his SFL blazer. I recall also Brown McMaster being a tad miffed when the SPL changed their rules to the detrriment of the Club he was then associated with. He now presides over a body that wish to change their rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartcraig Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Not being able to prove that something did not happen does not therefore mean that it did. So you still can't prove it didn't happen then? Keep trying. Stuart 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MalckyB Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Where have I heard this before? Was it the last great saviour, or the one before or the one before that?Surely the 'easiest and preferred' and correct way forward for Livingston was liquidation. Well the delegation that visited the SFL today must have had a good enough business plan to convince the SFL that Livi should remain in the league. The administrator must also be convinced that the plan is workable and sustainable or make no mistake we would have been liquidated today...so it looks very much that liquidation was not the 'easiest and preferred' way forward....simple as that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartcraig Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 They are "hopelessly insolvent" according to their administrator Yeah, but isn't he the same guy who say the deadline was yesterday at midday? At least he's consistent. Stuart 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoRdY_b Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Where have I heard this before? Was it the last great saviour, or the one before or the one before that?Surely the 'easiest and preferred' and correct way forward for Livingston was liquidation. Good post, agree totally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos_75 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Massone has an ever extendable deadline to sell his stake in the club. If/when he does, a new company will be started, the league membership will be transferred and Livingston FC Ltd will be wound up with the new team starting in the 3rd division.If he doesn't sell, they'll be given a 15 point penalty I'm not long in either, thanks for clearing it up. However, what's is the vote going to be about? Is it changing the rules to something like the English version, and will all the clubs get a vote? Better still would be for Scottish club football fans to petition UEFA to intervene to give Scottish football the shakedown it so badly needs to ensure a situation like this never happens again.As I've said, this could be a golden opportunity - if fans make themselves heard enough - to get through a lot of long overdue changes up here. Hell mend us if we pass up the moment. I totally agree with you WTM. Change really is needed in Scottish football from top to bottom. There are too many blazers from the SPL, SFA to the SFL, interested only in themselves and not the good of the game as a whole in this country. We only need one association and badly need league reconstruction to include a pyramid system and promotion with at least two up and two down from all divisions. How difficult can that be to implement? If the incumbents feel they cannot achieve this, then they should stand aside and let those who can take over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MacLean Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Well the delegation that visited the SFL today must have had a good enough business plan to convince the SFL that Livi should remain in the league. Really? You actually believe that was the reason why the SFL acted as they did today? Do Rankine and McDougall shit money? If they do, better get them a laxative. How do they intend to satisfy the creditors and then have the money to run Livingston? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PELE Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Still looks to me like Livi are in deep s**t. If we continue in the 3rd division then I am happy, as we can win something, hopefully! We were unlikely to win the 2nd division, but at least there would have been ( might still be ) fewer long distance trips to the games. The SFL are, as expected, a complete joke, a laughing stock. Livi were just another phoney team who pretended that they were a 'big' club by living on other peoples money. Any idiot can run a club like that, but it is short lived. They were ( and still are ) Meadowbank. They can pretend that they are something different, but they are not. Innocent hard working people will be cheated out of the money they are owned by the criminals of Livilliangston ( or possibly Libertine Lions ). And to think that some people ( loonies ) still talk about an SPL 2! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steak & Barley Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Well the delegation that visited the SFL today must have had a good enough business plan to convince the SFL that Livi should remain in the league.The administrator must also be convinced that the plan is workable and sustainable or make no mistake we would have been liquidated today...so it looks very much that liquidation was not the 'easiest and preferred' way forward....simple as that. I fully expect the business plan will be like all the others - nice words but firmly founded on the principles of dishonesty, fraud and deception. Convincing the SFL that there was a route to cover their abject failure as an administrative body wouldn't have been that difficult. The administrator like all adminisistrators is essentially interested in one thing ie making money for himself or his company. The longer he is there the more he gets and you can be sure his bill is always paid in full. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorkie Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 No, it was seen as being less embarrassing as having to run one of the SFL leagues with less than its full quota of teams.If this proposed rule change is genuine, I for one will be writing to the chairman of my club asking him not to vote for it. boo fuckin hoo who gives a shit what you think...looks like we will still be about in some form in the 1st division next season 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I take it everyone was chuffed tonight then? What else was said?How are the new regime going to address the issue of debts, especially the one to the taxman? Chuffed isn't the word. I can understand perfectly well why fans of other club may hate us, but I feel that there really will be a sea change in the way our club is run after tonight. I can't remember ad verbatim what all was said but you know what? Without sounding xenophobic, it was actually just pretty good to hear a top table in the Almondvale Suite not talk utter rancid keech for once. What I do remember ( and I may be corrected) is that the two main creditors WILL be paid in full. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos_75 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 What I do remember ( and I may be corrected) is that the two main creditors WILL be paid in full. What about the rest of the creditors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Chuffed isn't the word. I can understand perfectly well why fans of other club may hate us, but I feel that there really will be a sea change in the way our club is run after tonight. I can't remember ad verbatim what all was said but you know what? Without sounding xenophobic, it was actually just pretty good to hear a top table in the Almondvale Suite not talk utter rancid keech for once.What I do remember ( and I may be corrected) is that the two main creditors WILL be paid in full. The largest creditor is apparently Massone. I presume you don't mean him? I presume you mean the two main external creditros who are presumably HMRC and WLC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainspotter Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 boo fuckin hoo who gives a shit what you think...looks like we will still be about in some form in the 1st division next season I'd hang on till your "looks like" actually happens. He who laughs last etc etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos_75 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The largest creditor is apparently Massone. I presume you don't mean him? In the crazy world of Livi, that is probabaly who they mean! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejailender Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) What I do remember ( and I may be corrected) is that the two main creditors WILL be paid in full. Massonne - so he wins.. Council - So they can continue to have the use of the stadium While all other companies in the local community will get the square root of nothing. - Thats a good way to build links with the community ! Since you were at a meeting tonight, what was said if the other member clubs DON'T vote for the rule change.. What happens then ? Edited July 30, 2009 by thejailender 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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