Livingston - all the threads merged

[Michael W]

I hope Angelo goes round to Almondvale and sets it alight for the insurance money. There is no way Livi should be in business, they treat everyone with contempt and continually cheat, and they get away with it. There should be a boycott by all local businesses against the club. If Cowden & other smaller clubs were in this position , we would have been left to die.

Funny you mention Almondvale. I wonder what'll happen come the end of the season when there's a nice pile of unpaid rent sitting again?

[unthinkable]

The last thing I wanted to see was a club go to the wall, but as has been said this latest decision stinks, and sends a message to the rest of Scottish Football that you can do as you like !

The English Football League have set rules about administration and are not afraid to re-evaluate them instantly should clubs try bend them in their favour i.e Southampton. Decision's are made hours after the clubs declare administration. The SFL however take weeks to say anything then come up with half a decision. Livi can play in Div 1 but with further discussion about a penalty etc. Shambolic.

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

You're right - he sooks it out when they sell their star players - or should I say the one star player they had, who they stole of us in one of our darkest moments.

Before we got minted again.

How is the good Doctor doing - rattling them in?

Evening Spud.. He's doing great thanks..

[General]

The Scottish Football League Management Committee met this afternoon with the Court Appointed Interim Manger of Livingston Football Club, Mr Donald McGruther of Mazars, and other parties in relation to the present situation at the club.

As a result of detailed discussions the following has been agreed -

- The Scottish Football League will consider a change to their current rule number 21.7 regarding insolvent reconstruction and will call a Special General Meeting of all member clubs to discuss this.

The Scottish Football League asked for guarantees from Mr McGruther in relation to

- The ability of Livingston FC to complete the scheduled fixtures for season 2009 – 2010

- Deliver a business plan for the club

- Financial Stability at the club

Mr McGruther and other parties were able to provide these guarantees to the League Management Committee’s satisfaction.

The Scottish Football League will continue to monitor the situation at Almondvale over the coming weeks and any sanctions against the club will be decided during this time.

Livingston’s Co-operative Insurance Cup tie at Albion Rovers will go ahead as planned, at Cliftonhill Stadium on Saturday and Livingston FC will commence the 2009 - 2010 season playing as a First Division club.

From the SFL handbook,

21.7 Except as aftermentioned no club shall be entitled, either directly or indirectly, to transfer its membership of the League to another club.

Surely they can't change that rule??

[Savage Henry]

Watch for the Livi fans and new board mumping about vendettas should a penalty be imposed, Ten points minimum and transfer embargo for the SFL to try and salvage some credibility. Knowing the useless commitee it will be a suspended fine.

Ten points would be a disgrace. I would hope for nothing less than twenty points, possibly thirty. In fact, I can't believe they haven't been relegated to the third division. I hope the SFL suffers somehow for this scandalous decision.

[stuartcraig]

Do you have a shred of proof that the SFL did anything of the sort? No, because it is bullshit.

The SFL and SFA actually approached UEFA to see if they had any way of stopping it, and were told thanks to the antiquated rulebook they were working under, the answer was no. The fact the rules were changed afterwards to stop it from happening again shows that they most certainly did not approve, let alone encourage it!

F*ck me! It's Rip Van Winkle. Where have you been every other time this debate has been resurrected in the past 7 years?

So to continue this never ending argument, do you have proof that members of the SFL didn't encourage Jim Ballantyne to follow this course of action?

Bill Barr knew chancers when he saw them, and dealt with them accordingly.

 Bill Barr spotted a weakened club he could pick clean like a vulture and acted accordingly.

The amount a club owes has nothing to do whether it goes under or not - it's what assets they have and the chance of being able to at least service the debt.

Try to understand the mechanics of bankruptcy before spouting off "it's soooo unfair, they owed more than us, waaaaah!" Businesses operate on a different level to "the change in ma pocket, mon." economics.

Airdrie's debt was serviceable. It's only when the directors walked away and the accountants took over that it spiralled.

Actually, your inability to tell the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE (contraction of YOU ARE) show you up to be an absolute retard

Hooray. It's the grammar police.

Still the only "fans" in Scotland who thought dressing as Jew-baiting racists was funny - even Rangers fans would never have gone that far.

Aye, those 2 boys were f*ckwits. Looks like we don't have the monopoly on f*ckwits though.

Stuart

[jay_7]

I am stunned by the sheer incompetence shown by the SFA. Livingston FC, a cancerous cell on the anus of Scottish football.

[Michael W]

From the SFL handbook,

Surely they can't change that rule??

If they did that, then surely ANY club could use that as a way of writing of avoiding their creditors?

It's disgusting they are even contemplating this.

[General]

If they did that, then surely ANY club could use that as a way of writing of avoiding their creditors?

It's disgusting they are even contemplating this.

Exactly. You would have to be mad to lend to an SFL club if they changed that rule.

[Guest el bawbag]

Watch for the Livi fans and new board mumping about vendettas should a penalty be imposed

not at all, if livi were punted to the 3rd div and deducted 20 points i would say "fair enough, we had that coming". all i care about is that the club i love survives in some way, shape or form.

[Michael W]

Ten points would be a disgrace. I would hope for nothing less than twenty points, possibly thirty. In fact, I can't believe they haven't been relegated to the third division. I hope the SFL suffers somehow for this scandalous decision.

A zero point deduction wouldn't surprise me given the highly-lax way they've dealt with Livi just there.

[CowdenPhil]

If they did that, then surely ANY club could use that as a way of writing of avoiding their creditors?

It's disgusting they are even contemplating this.

Well if they do change this rule - it will open up a whole crock of shit for Scottish Fitba, more clubs will be seduced by the "dream" of being 3rd in the SPL knowing full well when it all goes Ken Tong, they won't have to stump up a penny. To the likes of MCL - what about those Livi FC staff who were made redundant - are they geting their jobs back - cnuts like you make me sick.

Go on Angelo - burn Almondvale down !

[teekasule]

Just came in from work, and asked my son if he had heard any info on the Livingston situation (he was watching SSN all day)

Basically hsi garbled message said.

Minestrone was at Hampden but didn't get in, and got hassle from the fans, no word if Livingston have been liquidised yet.

Obviously thinking of food, must be needing feed.

MON THE VERS !

[Glasgow Loon]

not at all, if livi were punted to the 3rd div and deducted 20 points i would say "fair enough, we had that coming". all i care about is that the club i love survives in some way, shape or form.

But you dont deserve to survive.If you had been liquidated then Macdougall and rankine could have formed a new livi team along with the trust and tried to join the SFL next may.

[The Blue Brasilion]

Again we see the proof that scottish football is being run by a bunch of incompetent tosspots.

Now i am not in anyway disgruntled by the fact that Cowden would have been playing in division 2 had Livi been no more tonight, but by the amount of time this saga has been allowed to go on for. Down south clubs that have got into the kind of mess Livi are in are dealt with by the Football League swiftly.

I feel the SFL should be setting an example to other clubs by punishing clubs swiftly that get into this mess but they have failed miserably.

[wearealldoomed]

The Scottish Football League will continue to monitor the situation at Almondvale over the coming weeks and any sanctions against the club will be decided during this time.

What in the name of suffering fuck is that?

The use of the word "any" would suggest that the SFL are going to take no action whatsoever. 15 points or whatever Hamilton were fined for non-payment of wages should be the absolute least that Livingston escape with.

If Livingston finish ahead of ANY club this coming season, I hope to f'ck that the relegated club(s) consider legal action. This is unreal.

Edited July 30, 2009 by wearealldoomed

[General]

Well if they do change this rule - it will open up a whole crock of shit for Scottish Fitba, more clubs will be seduced by the "dream" of being 3rd in the SPL knowing full well when it all goes Ken Tong, they won't have to stump up a penny. To the likes of MCL - what about those Livi FC staff who were made redundant - are they geting their jobs back - cnuts like you make me sick.

Go on Angelo - burn Almondvale down !

Not really as no one would be stupid enough to lend or allow big contracts without seeing some money first but that can't be changed. It would be madness.

[hotrodqos]

Just been on radio scotland Livi have to get 75% of the votes for to get the rule change.

Airdrie will not be happy Cowden will not be happy so that could be 2 lost votes for starters so its not all over yet.

edit because a was burning ma tea.

Can't remember who it was that was speaking on the radio but he did say he had spoken to a few chairmen and they were fed up and pissed off with the whole Livi thing. Airdrie,Cowdenbeath and Clyde were teams that were mentioned for likely to vote against. he said that the matter was not finished with as Livi will get some sort of sanction. no point fining them they have no money likely to get a points deduction.

Edited July 30, 2009 by hotrodqos

[sutton01]

Surely considering that clause that is being considered for change, it sounds as if Massone or McGruther has suggested it as a way out for Livi?

[southview]

Truly unbelievable. In no way did I imagine Livi still being in business tonight.

To the likes of Phantoms Livi Lass, Edinburgh Livi and Jimbo, I am pleased for you. You have fronted up on here and contributed to the debate and acknowledged the shambles Livingston were in. I am sure you are all relieved.

BUT there is no denying this decision is an absolute scandal and shows that deals had been done behind the scenes. This decision proves there was no way Livingston were going to be allowed to die.

I don't know if these questions can be answered but clarification would be welcomed:

Did McGruther at any point yesterday "officially" begin liquidation proceedings? Livi were dead from that moment.

Will Livi's creditors, mainly the taxman, be paid what they are due? I am not including the council in this as they have been part of this banana republic type of deal.

How are McDougall and Rankine able to takeover the club, completely bypassing Massone? What will McGruther's role be in all of this?

Will they be deducted points and have a signing ban imposed on them?

Watching Brown McMaster on the telly was cringeworthy. He looked like a man who just wanted this whole issue to go away. And then we had the smarmy Rankine in his spotty tie telling us he was the person who knew Massone most and that "all he wants is to walk away with dignity".

What a disgrace. This decision is wrong on so many levels and basically Livi will be allowed to take thousands of pounds out of the game this season, with it being highly likely that a lot of it will be used to chase Massone.

By wanting to hold a meeting to change rule 21.7, the clubs now have a golden chance to give themselves the green light to rack up debt and bail out when it is time to pay. Given that self-interest normally prevails, they will all vote yes to this rule change.

Whatever decision the SFL made wasn't going to be 100% to everyone's liking but to give Livi the chance to keep trading while over £1m in debt as a first division club is a joke. As was the so-called deadlines - so much for "this is the end".

I can't believe the SFL think this is the right decision. It defies belief and logic but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised.

As someone said earlier, if clubs are going to go bust, make sure it happens a week before the start of the league season and make sure your chairman starts acting like a lunatic with no comprehension of the law and the rules.