Livingston - all the threads merged

[Livi]

MCL -This is what Penelope is talking about but you seem to be avoiding answering.

P-l-l don't be daft its all smoke and mirrors with MCL. He wants posters on here to think he's a 'real' hard & fast Livi fan when in actual fact he spends more time promising [awaits his next excuse for not going down] to do things for Livi when in actual fact his offer was nothing more than a publicty stunt.

His attack on other Livi fans is nothing other than shocking & the real truth MCL has to face is he is not welcome in an Livi FC supporters' organisation [he was even banned under the Pease Flynn era from taking pics] & has alienated himself from the vast majorty of the support so he decides to just attack at every opportunity. Don't be fooled its not just the Trust board that gets his special treatment .

[qpsnapper]

Dunno if this has been mentioned already or not, but the talk around our game today was that we would know for sure on Tuesday if we're playing Livy in the cup next week. Not sure whats supposed to be happening then.

I've heard there's a meeting today with Massone, McDougall and the Council and if nothing is agreed then it's administration tomorrow.

[Guest Deewok's Bear Behind]

How many save Livi threads?

How many Massone out threads?

How many Livi fans doing nothing but calling each other names whilst their team dies threads?

I wonder when, like Gretna their team no longer exists (at senior level anyway), if they will regret their childish bickering and complete inaction?

Doubt it.

Much as I dislike Livi as a club, I have to say, I am not sure if I have more distain for their support or actual disbelief at what is really quite pathetic, their outlook.

Farce. Like the club.

[Homer Thompson]

To be fair, Gretna spend the last few months denying that the fat lady was even due to perform, despite literally years of substantiated speculation to the contrary.

Indeed. Isnt that what Livvy are doing too?

[Guest]

Indeed. Isnt that what Livvy are doing too?

Yes and no. The vast majority have tied themselves securely to the council mast which has repeatedly stated that "senior football is our priority". For some, that might mean that the council intend to put funding of Livingston FC ahead of all else, as it forms an important part of council entertainment every second Saturday, and that won't be spoilt, no way no how.

There is no doubt that the majority continue about their daily lives believing that their council are going to make everything ok, and that their club, as in the past, can do as it pleases. Someone else will always pay the price.

You know what? They might well be right. This council might just be prepared to do whatever it takes to keep a few of the council members fat and happy.

Livvy fans simply do not need to put on a united front because they never have to fight any battles. Look at their actions so far. Two small rallies outside the stadium. Added together, both demonstrations drew less than 150 people. That's it! That's their lot. That was their massed pipes and drums of resistance to Massone.

But it doesn't matter, because LFC are not about how many supporters want it to exist, it's about how many council people want it to exist for their own personal reasons. Just watch what unfolds.....

Edited July 20, 2009 by Guest

[Aloysius Snuffleupagus]

I went to the game to take pictures as a member of the press. When a game is played behind closed doors (such as Celtic v Austria Vienna a few years ago), the press are still allowed to cover it.

This is obviously off-topic but I think you might be getting confused with Celtic v Rapid Vienna in 1984. That game wasn't played behind closed doors, but the second leg (Celtic's home match) was replayed in Manchester due to a bottle throwing incident at Celtic Park. Fans were allowed into the Manchester match.

Thereafter, Celtic were forced to play Atletico Madrid behind closed doors the following season as further punishment for the incident detailed above.

[MCL]

This is obviously off-topic but I think you might be getting confused with Celtic v Rapid Vienna in 1984. That game wasn't played behind closed doors, but the second leg (Celtic's home match) was replayed in Manchester due to a bottle throwing incident at Celtic Park. Fans were allowed into the Manchester match.

Thereafter, Celtic were forced to play Atletico Madrid behind closed doors the following season as further punishment for the incident detailed above.

Yeah that's the one. I knew there was a closed doors match involved in the punishment. The press were allowed in to report on the match and I'm sure the highlights were on TV too.

[KingfaetheSooth]

Actually you should be out helping KFTS collect logs for our funeral pyre & remember to get plenty the torture has been protracted enough!

Perhaps you might now understand how the Meadowbank Thitle fans were feeling when they were fighting to save their club from being moved to Livingston by Mr Blobby in 1994. Not a nice feeling is it? Remember that you've only followed the club for 14 years at most - just imagine how it felt for Wimbledon fans some of whom had followed the club for 60+ years when there club was lost to a bunch of shysters from Milton Keynes in 2002. And some of the few Meadowbank fans who followed the club after the move - did it for personal prestige or gain - whether that was to take photographs (MCL), write in the programme (LLD) or run fan forum websites. (Charles Darwin) I can't get too concened about their feelings tbh.

I've heard there's a meeting today with Massone, McDougall and the Council and if nothing is agreed then it's administration tomorrow.

I still think that the Council will bend over backwards for Ged Nixon, Don Paul and McDougall & Co. If not:-

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Actually it won't count if we over-take the Gretna thread due to posts being constantly repeated!!!!!

I do get what you are saying, but do you really expect me to just shrug & say 'ah well feck it it's happened to loads before us I'll just go & support someone else no worries'

[Sergeant Wilson]

Perhaps you might now understand how the Meadowbank Thitle fans were feeling when they were fighting to save their club from being moved to Livingston by Mr Blobby in 1994. Not a nice feeling is it? Remember that you've only followed the club for 14 years at most - just imagine how it felt for Wimbledon fans some of whom had followed the club for 60+ years when there club was lost to a bunch of shysters from Milton Keynes in 2002. And some of the few Meadowbank fans who followed the club after the move - did it for personal prestige or gain - whether that was to take photographs (MCL), write in the programme (LLD) or run fan forum websites. (Charles Darwin) I can't get too concened about their feelings tbh.

I still think that the Council will bend over backwards for Ged Nixon, Don Paul and McDougall & Co. If not:-

I am completely indifferent to Livi amd their situation. The posters you mention do seem to be conducting some sort of personal vandetta through this "campaign" rather than working together within the common ground. The fact that they seem unable to do so says an awful lot about them all ie personal feelings outweigh any club loyalty. Surely, though, if they were Meadowbank fans at the time they would have been entitled to follow whichever club they liked after Meadowbank disappeared, regardless of how that happened.

[KingfaetheSooth]

Actually it won't count if we over-take the Gretna thread due to posts being constantly repeated!!!!!

I do get what you are saying, but do you really expect me to just shrug & say 'ah well feck it it's happened to loads before us I'll just go & support someone else no worries'

Don't worry - there were many repeated posts on the Gretna thread too.

I'd expect you to at least have joined the Livi for Life Supporters trust though by now. Out of interest, when and why did you start supporting Livi?

I am completely indifferent to Livi amd their situation. The posters you mention do seem to be conducting some sort of personal vandetta through this "campaign" rather than working together within the common ground. The fact that they seem unable to do so says an awful lot about them all ie personal feelings outweigh any club loyalty. Surely, though, if they were Meadowbank fans at the time they would have been entitled to follow whichever club they liked after Meadowbank disappeared, regardless of how that happened.

Most of the radical Meadowbank Thistle fans went to support Edinburgh City - some became committee members I believe.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Don't worry - there were many repeated posts on the Gretna thread too.

I'd expect you to at least have joined the Livi for Life Supporters trust though by now. Out of interest, when and why did you start supporting Livi?

Most of the radical Meadowbank Thistle fans went to support Edinburgh City - some became committee members I believe.

I know they did. I would be surprised if there were double figures followed and even more surprised if half still go. However, you have to allow for an element of choice.

It's obvious the Livi fans who are "active" are pinning their hopes of survival as a league club on a benefactor. There is simply not the will among the support to make progress with an alternative, even their "community" proposal depends largely on the co-operation of the council and external finance.

[Guest Deewok's Bear Behind]

Says it all when you have to hold Gretna's demise and re-surface as 2008 up as a model to these trumpets. I don't actually have faith in this lot achieveing even that to be honest. I have never heard from a more feckless bunch of 'supporters' in my puff.

If the council grows balls (and lets face it, when do councils do that?), they will sink without a trace.

I still think they will snake their way in via the backdoor and go on to repeat this farce all over again. Perhaps deep down their 'support' know this also and that is why its like being a room with a set of bickering children.

About as pathetic as their club.

They had a great opportunity to do something for themselves, their club, their standing and respect by other clubs and fans, but have managed I'd say, to lose most of any sympathy that remained.

Good effort.

[phantoms-livi-lass]

Don't worry - there were many repeated posts on the Gretna thread too.

I'd expect you to at least have joined the Livi for Life Supporters trust though by now. Out of interest, when and why did you start supporting Livi?

Most of the radical Meadowbank Thistle fans went to support Edinburgh City - some became committee members I believe.

I don't need to be a trust member to give them my support which I have given them, As for other fans going against the trust, when it possibly is the only option to help the club, Massone constantly maintained he was being sabotaged by them & a lot have believed him yet no proof has ever surfaced, also people like MCL who bear personal grudges & do their best to condemn what they are not a part of have put people off, I suppose the differance is that some people want the club to remain as it is at everyones cost, but the rest of us want it to be run in the proper manner which does mean giving up the high flying (third feckin force!!) dream.

When & why I started supprting Livi, well, my family have been Celtic fans for generations & think you are born into football, no choice in the matter, you just do it. I hated it & my son was born in 95 when Meadowbank came to Livi so I decided to break with tradition & steer him away from all the bigotry, So have been going along ever since, incidentally he has now rebeled against me & supports Celtic & I am left hooked on a team which gives me more stress than anything else but do you know what? I glad I support them & I really don't want them to die, it is gutting me.

[EdinburghPar1975]

If the council are actually having talks i'd be surprised if an agreement isn't reached very soon. Although this would be good news for the supporters I think, depending on the outcome, it could lead to a very sticky time for the council in regards other householders and businesses in West Lothian.

In saying that, if talks were to happen i'd imagine more people would have got wind of it by now.

[John MacLean]

Perhaps you might now understand how the Meadowbank Thitle fans were feeling when they were fighting to save their club from being moved to Livingston by Mr Blobby in 1994. Not a nice feeling is it? Remember that you've only followed the club for 14 years at most

No matter whether they are adopting the ostrich approach and sticking their head in the sand and hoping it all goes away, frothing at their mouth in indignation at what is happening to their club or engaging in petty point scoring on internet forums there is still a lot of time and emotion investing in supporting a football team for 14 years.

Irrespective of how Livingston came into being why are you so dismissive of that fact? I’m struggling to understand why a football fan can’t feel some empathy towards fans of another team that face having something that has been important to them for 14 years ripped away.

Would you be able to find, deep down in that apparent cold heart of yours, some compassion to show to a fellow football fan if they had been supporting their team for 24 years? 54 years? 104 years?

anyway. how many of those Meadowbank fans that you can find sympathy for followed their team prior to joining the SFL, upping sticks and moving to the Commonwealth Stadium and changing their name? Those that did support Meadowbank only after they joined the SFL did so for a maximum 21 years. Why do those extra 7 years mean so much?

[Caledonian]

The league season starts a fortnight on Saturday. This surely indicates that Livingston will be a First Division club in 09/10. Are the other scenarios not too late to implement anyway?

[KingfaetheSooth]

I don't need to be a trust member to give them my support which I have given them, As for other fans going against the trust, when it possibly is the only option to help the club, Massone constantly maintained he was being sabotaged by them & a lot have believed him yet no proof has ever surfaced, also people like MCL who bear personal grudges & do their best to condemn what they are not a part of have put people off, I suppose the differance is that some people want the club to remain as it is at everyones cost, but the rest of us want it to be run in the proper manner which does mean giving up the high flying (third feckin force!!) dream.

When & why I started supprting Livi, well, my family have been Celtic fans for generations & think you are born into football, no choice in the matter, you just do it. I hated it & my son was born in 95 when Meadowbank came to Livi so I decided to break with tradition & steer him away from all the bigotry, So have been going along ever since, incidentally he has now rebeled against me & supports Celtic & I am left hooked on a team which gives me more stress than anything else but do you know what? I glad I support them & I really don't want them to die, it is gutting me.

If I can be so bold, the Livi for Life trust needs all the financial and moral support it can get. The more members it has - the more clout it will have with the Council and the football authorities. If you support it's stand - you should at least become a member and volunteer to help where you can. The thing about supporters trusts is that you can stand for election and try and change things - if you think that the existing people are not doing their job. You can become involved and help shape your club's future - assuming it still has one. Push comes to shove - you can help sell raffle tickets when you start again in the EOS league.

Fair enough for supporting Livingston instead of Celtic - but the fact your son now supports them may show the problem locally.

No matter whether they are adopting the ostrich approach and sticking their head in the sand and hoping it all goes away, frothing at their mouth in indignation at what is happening to their club or engaging in petty point scoring on internet forums there is still a lot of time and emotion investing in supporting a football team for 14 years.

Irrespective of how Livingston came into being why are you so dismissive of that fact? I’m struggling to understand why a football fan can’t feel some empathy towards fans of another team that face having something that has been important to them for 14 years ripped away.

Would you be able to find, deep down in that apparent cold heart of yours, some compassion to show to a fellow football fan if they had been supporting their team for 24 years? 54 years? 104 years?

anyway. how many of those Meadowbank fans that you can find sympathy for followed their team prior to joining the SFL, upping sticks and moving to the Commonwealth Stadium and changing their name? Those that did support Meadowbank only after they joined the SFL did so for a maximum 21 years. Why do those extra 7 years mean so much?

I guess it comes down to personal experience - I watched Meadowbank occasionally in the 80's when they played in Edinburgh - the club was moved against the will of the supporters - and that is simply not right IMO. If the owner (Hunter) had canvassed the fans - and a majority had sanctioned the move - then fair enough. It was about money though. I'm sure the majority of the new fans that Livingston attracted - cared little or nothing for the former fans and the fact that no-one came on the free buses provided from Edinburgh - the club was no longer an Edinburgh club and was their club for the West Lothian - it was self-interest after a club was conveniently placed on their doorstep. I'd like to think that if a football club suddenly turned up in my town - I might just find out some of the history. I also saw the same happening to Wimbledon in 2002.

That said, before Meadowbank were moved to West Lothian, there was no senior football club in the area - that's not a great situation for a town of the size of Livingston - and there should be a system in place in Scotland where a club can progress from the Junior or amateur leagues to become a Senior club apart from buying or taking over another club's league place. I can also empathise with those people who preferred to take their kids to watch Livingston as opposed to the likes of the old firm or the two Edinburgh clubs.

I do have a modicum sympathy for the Livingston fans - as like say Morton/Airdrie/Clydebank/Dundee/Meadowbank fans - I understand what it is like to lose a club or a club to almost go under - after you and your family have invested so much time and effort supporting. I'd actually back a Livingston pheonix club playing in the EOS league or even SF3. Losing your football club is a painful thing to happen whichever club you support.

Edited July 20, 2009 by KingfaetheSooth

[Homer Thompson]

The league season starts a fortnight on Saturday. This surely indicates that Livingston will be a First Division club in 09/10. Are the other scenarios not too late to implement anyway?

Theyre not related. If someone pulls the financial plug it wont matter how soon the league starts, or even that its started - if it drags on that long.

The scenarios that might be too late to implement are the possible scenarios to replace Livvy, should the go to the wall. As far as I know, and its just from hearsay on Saturday, that the SFL will be making a decision tomorrow, presumably based on the discussions today and the expected outcome of the councils legal action.

Whether this decision will be solely about Livvy or whether they'll have decided who, if anyone, will replace them or even whether we'll hear anything tomorrow or not I have no idea!

[Jay Silverheels]

A statement by the SFL is long overdue. By remaining silent on the issue, they have lost all credibility.

When the magnitude of Livi's financial problems became apparent, the SFL should have held an EGM and discussed all possible scenarios. They should have released a statement detailing what would happen and when for any given situation. They should have called Massone in and asked for assurances that Livi would have a safety certificate in place, that they would have power at the stadium, that the staff would be paid in a timely manner, that they could fulfill their commitments for the season ahead. Instead, the SFL appear to have buried their heads in the sand, hoping that the whole sorry affair would resolve itself. Now, on the eve of the season starting, the SFL have realized all too late that the situation lurches from catastrophe to disaster, and if the previous post is to believed, only now are they about to take action.

Of course, we have the benefit of hindsight, and can see that the situation at Livi has deteriorated over the Summer. The SFL should have been prepared, however. Shame on them.