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Livingston - all the threads merged


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I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's far from conventional but surely all of the court settlements (defeats) mean that the list of creditors is getting much shorter than it was?

Why? All it means is that the creditor concerned has a decree against Livi. It doesn't mean the debt is paid!

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If you're losing all these cases you'll have to pay the legal fees so it's just adding more really.

Depends. If they're claims for £3000 or less, then they're small claims. As such if he knows he's going to lose and doesn't bother turning up in Court the only extra expense will be the small claim fee (£39 or at least it used to be) and whatever interest is claimed on the amount (8% as a rough guide).

More than £3000, yeah it'll cost.

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Is Angelo Massone your real name?

To be fair though once papers are served even if the debt is paid the case still calls in court on the appointed date, so he could be doing deals prior to the case calling, he does at least now seem to be represented in court.

I note that HMRC have RBS in court this week, perhaps we should start to worry about them as well.

:lol: I'm far from pleased with the situation if that's what you're thinking. I'm just trying to look at the positives and when you have a lot of creditors that's hard to do.

Is he not representing himself considering he's a lawyer? Perhaps my ignorance is letting me down again but wouldn't that situation mean we wouldn't have to pay fees to anyone representing us?

Edited by EdinburghLivi
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:lol: I'm far from pleased with the situation if that's what you're thinking. I'm just trying to look at the positives and when you have a lot of creditors that's hard to do.

Is he not representing himself considering he's a lawyer? Perhaps my ignorance is letting me down again but wouldn't that situation mean we wouldn't have to pay fees to anyone representing us?

If you lose the case you have to pay for the other sides legal fees and whatever it costs to take it to court. That's my understanding of it anyway :unsure:

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:lol: I'm far from pleased with the situation if that's what you're thinking. I'm just trying to look at the positives and when you have a lot of creditors that's hard to do.

Is he not representing himself considering he's a lawyer? Perhaps my ignorance is letting me down again but wouldn't that situation mean we wouldn't have to pay fees to anyone representing us?

He's an Italian lawyer.....in Italian law! If you have a court case in Scotland, you need a Scottish lawyer. Similarly if you were "lifted" in England, and required representation, then you would hire an English lawyer.

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:lol: I'm far from pleased with the situation if that's what you're thinking. I'm just trying to look at the positives and when you have a lot of creditors that's hard to do.

Is he not representing himself considering he's a lawyer? Perhaps my ignorance is letting me down again but wouldn't that situation mean we wouldn't have to pay fees to anyone representing us?

Livi are normally represented by Ian Smith Watson Solicitors from Glasgow.

The positives are that you lasted a year after the guy who has been forgotten in the debacle sold up and pissed off, Flynn destroyed the fanbase and handed the Italians a busted flush!!

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:lol: I'm far from pleased with the situation if that's what you're thinking. I'm just trying to look at the positives and when you have a lot of creditors that's hard to do.

Is he not representing himself considering he's a lawyer? Perhaps my ignorance is letting me down again but wouldn't that situation mean we wouldn't have to pay fees to anyone representing us?

You don't have to be a lawyer to represent yourself in court - anyone can be a "party litigant", perhaps Suntan Sheridan being the most recent, high profile case.

Obviously some semblance of knowledge of the law helps, right enough!

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Depends. If they're claims for £3000 or less, then they're small claims. As such if he knows he's going to lose and doesn't bother turning up in Court the only extra expense will be the small claim fee (£39 or at least it used to be) and whatever interest is claimed on the amount (8% as a rough guide).

More than £3000, yeah it'll cost.

However if you appear at the first calling and say that you intend to state a defence the case will be put back for months. Thus the cost (whilst morally wrong) of going to court is less than the interest he might be earning.

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If you lose the case you have to pay for the other sides legal fees and whatever it costs to take it to court. That's my understanding of it anyway :unsure:

I know f**k all about law, you're probably right.

He's an Italian lawyer.....in Italian law! If you have a court case in Scotland, you need a Scottish lawyer. Similarly if you were "lifted" in England, and required representation, then you would hire an English lawyer.

Again, this is a completely new revelation for me.

Livi are normally represented by Ian Smith Watson Solicitors from Glasgow.

The positives are that you lasted a year after the guy who has been forgotten in the debacle sold up and pissed off, Flynn destroyed the fanbase and handed the Italians a busted flush!!

I feel sorry for them...

It's funny that Livi fans have almost completely forgotten about him. They all hated him last year but now that the Italians are picking up his massive, massive slack and failing, he is completely out of our minds. I think if Massone had been paying the wages on time then there may have been more focus on him.

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I know f**k all about law, you're probably right.

Again, this is a completely new revelation for me.

I feel sorry for them...

It's funny that Livi fans have almost completely forgotten about him. They all hated him last year but now that the Italians are picking up his massive, massive slack and failing, he is completely out of our minds. I think if Massone had been paying the wages on time then there may have been more focus on him.

LJ, read my post a couple up - ANYONE can represent themselves in court, you need know legal qualification to do so.

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LJ, read my post a couple up - ANYONE can represent themselves in court, you need know legal qualification to do so.

"The lawyer who represents himself in court has a fool for a client."

;)

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Livingston have umpteen decrees against them but it is not clear whether they have paid any of the creditors off. If a creditor is owed more than £3,000, once they have a decree they can petition for the company's winding up. The trouble with that is that they would have to incur further costs and maybe underwrite the cost of a liquidator.

The creditor who goes down that path most frequently is the tax man and I suspect Massone has identified who he has to pay to prevent a winding up petition happening. I would guess the club is doing just enough to keep such creditors at bay whilst letting the rest swing.

Its a risky strategy and I wonder why Massone is doing it? Does he expect big money from the transfer of Griffiths?

Is there something else he knows that we don't?

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The creditor who goes down that path most frequently is the tax man .......................................

This inspite of all the bluster about the HMRC Business Payment Support Service.

As you say though no one apart from Massone truthfully knows the whole story with Livi's finances.

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Guest strathbrock
Its a risky strategy and I wonder why Massone is doing it? Does he expect big money from the transfer of Griffiths?

Griffiths is good but he is unproven at a higher level so if he goes we will get the going rate - probably similar to or slightly more than the Dorrans deal last season. That's hardly a fortune.

Is there something else he knows that we don't?

Now that is a very good question. :rolleyes:

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You don't have to be a lawyer to represent yourself in court - anyone can be a "party litigant", perhaps Suntan Sheridan being the most recent, high profile case.

Obviously some semblance of knowledge of the law helps, right enough!

Party litigant cannot represent another person, or represent the rights of another legal entity, like a Registered Company

Tommy Sheridan was able to represent himself, but would not have been able to put a case forward for his wife, for example.

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gets free access to games for doing it.

To be fair no worse than you when you were doing photo's then done Photo's & club website and the free access you got into the games.

Ps When was the last time you paid into watch Livi? :P

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To be fair no worse than you when you were doing photo's then done Photo's & club website and the free access you got into the games.

Ps When was the last time you paid into watch Livi? :P

True, but the point is I wasn't scheming against the owners at the same time as working for them.

I don't know the last time I paid into a game. Do you pay to go into your work ? :P

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True, but the point is I wasn't scheming against the owners at the same time as working for them.

I don't know the last time I paid into a game. Do you pay to go into your work ? :P

Latterly that maybe wasn't true though hence the bad break (not taking sides)

Its was hardly work though at the time you were doing it just like LiviTV i am sure you'd have had a day job too :D

Edited by Livi
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Latterly that maybe wasn't true though hence the bad break (not taking sides)

Its was hardly work though at the time you were doing it just like LiviTV i am sure you'd have had a day job too :D

It was true though. I didn't scheme against Pearse and Vivien while I did work for them. When they fell behind with payments I stopped doing the work, I wasn't going to provide my services for free even although I'm a Livi fan.

I didn't join with another group of fans to undermine them to force the club into admin so that we could clear the debt and take over the club like Mr Glasgow is doing. I wonder what Mr Massone's reaction will be when he finds out his LiviTV guy is on the "Trust" board. I also wonder why the "Trust" are keeping the new board secret ?

As I'm self employed I have many day jobs. Livi were just one of my clients at that time and I spent a fair amount of time at the stadium gathering info and pics for the website/programme.

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