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Livingston - all the threads merged


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I think you misunderstand a bit here.

It would help to know what CVA stands for. The V is for Volunary, and it means a majority of the creidtore have to agree to any such arrangement - it can't be imposed upon them.

I think you failed to read what I wrote?

I didn't say they would be entering a CVA, merely that they would be taking advantage of a legal avenue that is open to them to enter a moratorium which once granted by the court is legally binding on all parties.

Have a look at insolvency law, I can lend you the text books if you like?

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The club can organise this very easily by an application to the court, which will be granted as a matter of course. The club then has the option to propose a CVA or have paid off some of the debt and entered negotiations with it's creditors for the rest. During the moratorium no action can be taken and any winding up petitions would be dismissed.

There is no need for the club to enter admin.

Another fact you might not know is that HMRC has rules that state that it cannot proceed with a winding up petition where there is an outstanding complaint from an M.P.

OK I overlooked the Insolvency Act 2000 Moratorium in anticipation of a CVA. However, the directors have to put a meaningful voluntary arrangement scheme to the court in support of the moratorium. An essential element of any voluntary arrangement is that the company has some form of underlying viable business to be rescued. How can Livingston demonstrate that entering hteir third insolvency procedure in what? 10 years? Even the dimmest Sheriff is going to see through a moratorium application not supported by a rescue plan which has some chance of success. They have no assets other than the players and selling them to an already impoverished football sector is not going to be easy.

As for the HMRC rules, I do a lot of cases for the Revenue and have not come across the MP rule (I'm nopt arguing with you though) but I am not sure what the complaint is about. Livi owe circa £130k in PAYE

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OK I overlooked the Insolvency Act 2000 Moratorium in anticipation of a CVA. However, the directors have to put a meaningful voluntary arrangement scheme to the court in support of the moratorium. An essential element of any voluntary arrangement is that the company has some form of underlying viable business to be rescued. How can Livingston demonstrate that entering hteir third insolvency procedure in what? 10 years? Even the dimmest Sheriff is going to see through a moratorium application not supported by a rescue plan which has some chance of success. They have no assets other than the players and selling them to an already impoverished football sector is not going to be easy.

As for the HMRC rules, I do a lot of cases for the Revenue and have not come across the MP rule (I'm nopt arguing with you though) but I am not sure what the complaint is about. Livi owe circa £130k in PAYE

From the HMRC Manual

Adjournment with the Revenue's consent

The Revenue is petitioning for the debtor's bankruptcy (or to wind up the company) and it is rarely appropriate to instruct Solicitor's Office to seek an adjournment on the debtor's behalf, except perhaps when

  • The submission of accounts or granting of equity has significantly reduced the debt and the debtor has not had time to submit proposals to clear the new figure.
  • A complaint to the Adjudicator or an MP is outstanding.
  • Waiting for the Inspector's verdict on accounts, or there has been a Revenue Delay.

At the end of the day their aim is to "protect the revenue" at all costs, they aint as nasty as some would have you believe.

Edited by AND180Y
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From the HMRC Manual

Adjournment with the Revenue's consent

The Revenue is petitioning for the debtor's bankruptcy (or to wind up the company) and it is rarely appropriate to instruct Solicitor's Office to seek an adjournment on the debtor's behalf, except perhaps when

  • The submission of accounts or granting of equity has significantly reduced the debt and the debtor has not had time to submit proposals to clear the new figure.
  • A complaint to the Adjudicator or an MP is outstanding.
  • Waiting for the Inspector's verdict on accounts, or there has been a Revenue Delay

Hmm, I dunno, but I'm not reading that as "....HMRC has rules that state that it cannot proceed with a winding up petition where there is an outstanding complaint from an M.P." Seems to me to be more a case of "it's extremely unlikely that HMRC would not proceed with a winding up petition, but it's just about possible under some extraordinary circumstances".

Good stuff though. How are you guys on capital gains tax, I could do with some advice on that....

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Livingston in terms of finances have been thrown from pillar to post over the years that they have been in buisness. If it is true that they are in high debt, then there will be a high risk of them possibly going out of buisness. This would be the time for the fans of Livingston rallying around their club and actually going to the games at Almondvale. The last time I was at Almondvale was the day we were relegated and it was a pity sight, there was only one stand with Livingston fans and it was not full whereas we had the three other stands and they were just about full with Dundee fans being locked out of the ground aswell. We at Dundee get around 3,500-4,500 at Dens per home which makes us one of the best supported clubs in the division. When we were in the duldrums we had the fans to thank for saving our team with the Dee4Life program and without them would have gone down the chute. So if the time comes that Livingston are in dire need of held, then the fans should think about helping out their club by going to games and perhaps fundraising for the club otherwise if the owners of the club don't get to grips with the financial situation at Livingstion then there might not be a Livingston say in the next couple of years.

Edited by Soccer Dark Blue
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Livingston in terms of finances have been thrown from pillar to post over the years that they have been in buisness. If it is true that they are in high debt, then there will be a high risk of them possibly going out of buisness. This would be the time for the fans of Livingston rallying around their club and actually going to the games at Almondvale. The last time I was at Almondvale was the day we were relegated and it was a pity sight, there was only one stand with Livingston fans and it was not full whereas we had the three other stands and they were just about full with Dundee fans being locked out of the ground aswell. We at Dundee get around 3,500-4,500 at Dens per home which makes us one of the best supported clubs in the division. When we were in the duldrums we had the fans to thank for saving our team with the Dee4Life program and without them would have gone down the chute. So if the time comes that Livingston are in dire need of held, then the fans should think about helping out their club by going to games and perhaps fundraising for the club otherwise if the owners of the club don't get to grips with the financial situation at Livingstion then there might not be a Livingston say in the next couple of years.

Bit of an exaggeration. You had the stand behind the goal and half of the stand running along the pitch. To be fair, you did fill them with more to spare.

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Bit of an exaggeration. You had the stand behind the goal and half of the stand running along the pitch. To be fair, you did fill them with more to spare.

isnt it funny how over time people get rose tinted glasses. How the summers were all Indian and winters 3 ft of snow and we all laughed. :rolleyes:

No Dundee had the North stand and half the east, with about 50 odds on the small hill overlooking. I was sitting in the south stand which wasnt full by any stretch of the imagination. Previously and subsequently you havent had that amount at Livi.

Anyway, I digress

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Hmmmmmm... the leader of the DBM suddenly goes all quiet.

So much for making noise :lol:

Well, well, well...the leader-aff of the DBM constantly moans about lack of information from the club to the fans and now he has information the fans want he won't share it.

What a hypocrite. :rolleyes:

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isnt it funny how over time people get rose tinted glasses. How the summers were all Indian and winters 3 ft of snow and we all laughed. :rolleyes:

No Dundee had the North stand and half the east, with about 50 odds on the small hill overlooking. I was sitting in the south stand which wasnt full by any stretch of the imagination. Previously and subsequently you havent had that amount at Livi.

Anyway, I digress

Livi fans were locked out the south stand, as Dundee fans tried to force their way in, so the police shut the gates. Dundee were alocated 4000 tickets for that game i think.

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