Livingston - all the threads merged

[EdinburghLivi]

Don't buy that a win at St. Mirren will secure top 6. From the encounters this season, they look to have a team with a lot of heart and it wouldn't surprise me if they get a result at Tynecastle and smash Kilmarnock if they need the points and goals.

The three remaining fixtures aren't as easy as is being made out and I can see us needing at least 4 points from those, regardless of what happens on 1st April. I would feel a lot better if we hadn't lost 2 points thanks to the officials in the Dundee United match.

Edited March 19, 2023 by EdinburghLivi

[Durnford]

2 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Don't buy that a win at St. Mirren will secure top 6. From the encounters this season, they look to have a team with a lot of heart and it wouldn't surprise me if they get a result at Tynecastle and smash Kilmarnock if they need the points and goals.

The three remaining fixtures aren't as easy as is being made out and I can see us needing at least 4 points from those, regardless of what happens on 1st April. I would feel a lot better if we hadn't lost 2 points thanks to the officials in the Dundee United match.

TBH dropping those two points against United really have made things a lot more challenging.

[Guest]

Next two matches are against our two bogey sides. We often lose in Paisley and we normally lose in Motherwell. Need to hope we can invert those trends.

[Guest]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/david-martindale-delighted-answer-selection-29495030#

Quote

A delighted Martindale said: “It was a great ball by wee Penners. It’s quite funny because he took a bad touch five minutes before it with his left foot when it should’ve been his right.

“It bobbled over him and someone shouted from the stand, ‘That’s what you get for playing a left-back on the right wing!’ I thought ‘ah, right. Cheers for your support’.

“Next one, bang, he’s put a ball in with his left for Joel at the back post. I turned round looking for him, trying to tell him ‘see that was a left-back doing that'. It was a fantastic pattern of play.”

Martindale Penrice Utd 1 -0 Yelling Idiot

[Cptn Hooch]

4 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/david-martindale-delighted-answer-selection-29495030#

Martindale Penrice Utd 1 -0 Yelling Idiot

I find it mental that folk are still so quick to shout him down when, so often, these "bizarre" selections come off for us. Even thinking back to Bartley playing left wing in the cup final....the job was to nullify Rooney down that side and for the most part it worked. The goal came from a set piece when someone else was marking Rooney. Shinnie playing as the lone striker against Celtic got cries of derision from some areas of the support until he smashed the winning goal past Hart. Even some less extreme moves like Sean Kelly, who had spent his career as a bang average lower league LB and a pretty poor CB by all accounts, becoming one of our most dependable holding midfielders. Martindale also decided that slow as moss, 6'3'' Jet would make a cracking winger rather than a target man striker and he was right, he's done similar with Nouble. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Cptn Hooch

[ATLIS]

3 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I find it mental that folk are still so quick to shout him down when, so often, these "bizarre" selections come off for us. Even thinking back to Bartley playing left wing in the cup final....the job was to nullify Rooney down that side and for the most part it worked. The goal came from a set piece when someone else was marking Rooney. Shinnie playing as the lone striker against Celtic got cries of derision from some areas of the support until he smashed the winning goal past Hart. Even some less extreme moves like Sean Kelly, who had spent his career as a bang average lower league LB and a pretty poor CB by all accounts, becoming one of our most dependable holding midfielders. Martindale also decided that slow as moss, 6'3'' Jet would make a cracking winger rather than a target man striker and he was right, he's done similar with Nouble. 

I think the other side of it is that Martindale sometimes gets credit for 'transforming' players when he hasn't. Nouble spoke previously about being typecast into a target man role where his preference and real position was on the wing. Easy to forget that we spent about 6 months with Nouble as a target man last season (due to Bruce's injury). Same with Montano who said that Martindale wanted him to play as a LW but he told him he prefers playing at LB as he can read the game better. 

JET worked better as a target man for me as he had the physical side of the game going for him and his holdup play was ridiculous. 

Martindale has hits and misses but he's more open than your average manager absolutely. 

There's definitely some roasters up by me behind the home dugout though. Armchair managers who think they've got the game sussed out tactically. I remember arguing with one of them after the Motherwell top 6 game last season, he was hurling abuse at Martindale and getting personal with it. After telling him to get a grip he was shouting at me asking if 'that was acceptable, top 6 and Europe is fucked now' . Some folk have their head up their arse when it comes to reality with Livi. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

5 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I find it mental that folk are still so quick to shout him down when, so often, these "bizarre" selections come off for us. Even thinking back to Bartley playing left wing in the cup final....the job was to nullify Rooney down that side and for the most part it worked. The goal came from a set piece when someone else was marking Rooney. Shinnie playing as the lone striker against Celtic got cries of derision from some areas of the support until he smashed the winning goal past Hart. Even some less extreme moves like Sean Kelly, who had spent his career as a bang average lower league LB and a pretty poor CB by all accounts, becoming one of our most dependable holding midfielders. Martindale also decided that slow as moss, 6'3'' Jet would make a cracking winger rather than a target man striker and he was right, he's done similar with Nouble. 

Yeah the problem with Bartley playing to nullify Rooney,  it was to the detriment of our own attack not playing Forrest up the wing, and the minute St Johnstone scored the game was lost, they were experts at seeing out 1-0's. He admits himself he sometimes overthinks things, concentrating more on the opposition's strengths and how to nullify them, and not on our own.

 

The Shinnie up front worked great once against Celtic, but then he kept doing it every time we played them when it no longer worked for us, he tends to do that a lot, even when we had strikers fit to play.

2 hours ago, ATLIS said:

I think the other side of it is that Martindale sometimes gets credit for 'transforming' players when he hasn't. Nouble spoke previously about being typecast into a target man role where his preference and real position was on the wing. Easy to forget that we spent about 6 months with Nouble as a target man last season (due to Bruce's injury). Same with Montano who said that Martindale wanted him to play as a LW but he told him he prefers playing at LB as he can read the game better. 

JET worked better as a target man for me as he had the physical side of the game going for him and his holdup play was ridiculous. 

Martindale has hits and misses but he's more open than your average manager absolutely. 

There's definitely some roasters up by me behind the home dugout though. Armchair managers who think they've got the game sussed out tactically. I remember arguing with one of them after the Motherwell top 6 game last season, he was hurling abuse at Martindale and getting personal with it. After telling him to get a grip he was shouting at me asking if 'that was acceptable, top 6 and Europe is fucked now' . Some folk have their head up their arse when it comes to reality with Livi. 

Yeah Nouble is def best on the wing, he's noticeably drifted into the centre to act as a target man now too though, collecting direct long balls up the pitch, but still goes back onto the wings. Huge improvement on his goal threat this season too.

Aye some of our fans have quickly forgotten how mental it is that we're even playing in the top flight with our small fanbase and budget, crazy how quickly they have got used to our success and think we should be getting into the top 6 and Europe, and not doing so is a failure.

 

The minute we hit a bad patch you get roasters wanting Martindale punted too, read a few comments on our fans' FB page saying other managers have sussed him out, and his junior league management isn't working in the top flight, oh and also he's not got the top flight experience we require to progress. What world do these folk live in FFS.

BTW is Martindale the longest serving top flight manager just now, i know he's not always been officially in charge, but even after taking the manager's job there's been that many managers replaced in other teams, Celtic. Hearts, Motherwell, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Hibs, County, Sevco, St Johnstone, and even recent promoted Killie, i can think of them all having previous managers since we came back up, some have had several changes in that time.

Edited March 20, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[LiviLion]

8 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

BTW is Martindale the longest serving top flight manager just now, i know he's not always been officially in charge, but even after taking the managers job there's been that many managers replaced in other teams, Celtic. Hearts, Motherwell, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Hibs, County, Sevco, St Johnstone, and even recent promoted Killie, i can think of them all having previous managers since we came back up, some have had several changes in that time.

Callum Davidson and Robbie Neilson both been in for a few months more than him. Surprised Davidson has lasted as long and a lot of Hearts fans are already shouting for Neilson to be sacked.

[LIVIFOREVER]

7 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

Callum Davidson and Robbie Neilson both been in for a few months more than him. Surprised Davidson has lasted as long and a lot of Hearts fans are already shouting for Neilson to be sacked.

Cheers, yeah knew Neilson was still with Utd when they were in the Championship, and we were in the Premiership, and can remember Wright being in charge at St Johnstone against us, but, couldn't think exactly when it was that Holt left and Martindale officially took the manager's job.

Looking at their wiki pages it must be close because Wright was still St Johnstone's manager in 2020 when Martindale took the job. Same with Neilson, took the Hearts job in 2020.

Edited March 20, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Cheers, yeah knew Neilson was still with Utd when they were in the Championship, and we were in the Premiership, and can remember Wright being in charge at St Johnstone against us, but, couldn't think exactly when it was that Holt left and Martindale officially took the manager's job.

Looking at their wiki pages it must be close because Wright was still St Johnstone's manager in 2020 when Martindale took the job. Same with Neilson, took the Hearts job in 2020.

Holt was in charge for TWs last game, which was the last game before the Covid shut down.

I know because it was part of my stag do to be dragged onto the pitch at half time for keepie-ups and, after a morning of pints, it was horrendous. Gary Holt was pishing himself in the dugout during it.

[LIVIFOREVER]

23 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Holt was in charge for TWs last game, which was the last game before the Covid shut down.

I know because it was part of my stag do to be dragged onto the pitch at half time for keepie-ups and, after a morning of pints, it was horrendous. Gary Holt was pishing himself in the dugout during it.

Aye think it was December 2020 Martindale was interim manager right enough, can't remember how long he had that title before he passed the zuberzander fit and proper person test thingy to be deemed ok to be a manager. 

[LiviLion]

25 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Aye think it was December 2020 Martindale was interim manager right enough, can't remember how long he had that title before he passed the zuberzander fit and proper person test thingy to be deemed ok to be a manager. 

Think it was the end of November that Holt left and Martindale took temporary charge, we announced he'd take over officially just before Christmas, then the constant news about his past ran until something like the end of January when he was finally declared a fit and proper person or whatever it was.

[Durnford]

I  don't always agree with Martindale's substitutions however the most salient point are:

1. Can we afford a better manager for the money we have available? - I certainly doubt it.
2. Is there a better manager available for working on such a shoestring budget? - Extremely unlikely; there are managers who will have a good season working with practically nothing (Dick Campbell with Arbroath last season for example) but very few can do it season after season.

I suppose it might be interesting to see what Martindale could do if he had the budget. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Durnford

[The Wrong Car]

Martindale's proven he can

- identify good players on a budget on a yearly basis

- improve cheap players to suit the team and squad options (i.e Penrice as a CM/LW/RW option, Sean Kelly as a CM/LB etc)

- change styles to suit the team when injuries hit, or form dips. Compared to, say Davidson at St Johnstone, Martindale's preference of 433 doesn't blind him to the players available on a matchday

It's absolutely wild when folk suggest a managerial change. While his use of subs in certain situations is questionable, most of the tactical suprises (Shinnie as CF, Kelly as CM) tend to make sense eventually

 

[DavideFernandezLoveChild]

Lets factor in the fact that Martindale also puts in the hours doing work that is so far removed from his managerial role that no manager taking over would be willing to do. Although I am sure Dick Campbell is dab hand with a paint brush anaw.

I left the FB group long ago - seem to recall someone claiming Liam Kelly was past it because Donnerumma was already a starter at AC, at 16, and Kelly, 20 at the time, had struggled to break through at Rangers - and that was the final straw for me. 

Realistically, when Davie goes we are in for a tough time regardless of who replaces him.

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, DavideFernandezLoveChild said:

Lets factor in the fact that Martindale also puts in the hours doing work that is so far removed from his managerial role that no manager taking over would be willing to do. Although I am sure Dick Campbell is dab hand with a paint brush anaw.

I left the FB group long ago - seem to recall someone claiming Liam Kelly was past it because Donnerumma was already a starter at AC, at 16, and Kelly, 20 at the time, had struggled to break through at Rangers - and that was the final straw for me. 

Realistically, when Davie goes we are in for a tough time regardless of who replaces him.

Yeah he's a manager/coach/DOF/project manager/all round handyman.

 

[Durnford]

Didnt John McGlynn used to do the stadium plumbing?

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, Durnford said:

Didnt John McGlynn used to do the stadium plumbing?

I'm sure you've tee'd that up for a plumbed new depths joke. 

[LiviLion]

Good to see us giving 2,000 community tickets away for the St Johnstone game, offered some to them too by the sounds of it.

Although, the two times we've done it this season we've ended up losing to Ross County and drawing with Dundee United, so hopefully that's not a thing.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Big Joel saying what we've all been saying all season, he gets grabbed onto and /or kicked all game and gets very little protection from the refs. Livingston attacker Joel Nouble baffled by 'big man' tag and lack of protection from officials - Daily Record

Quote

He said: “I spoke to the ref (Willie Collum) after (Keith) Watson jumped with two arms on my shoulder and he said ‘you’re a big lad’.

“But what does that mean? So if I’m shorter he’ll give a foul? I hate that line because it doesn’t make sense but I am used to it.

 

I must be one of the most fouled players in the league because it happens every game. Players will grab me and kick me. When I do go down they’ll say you’re a big lad when I don’t go down they’ll say I’m a big lad and can deal with it so what am I meant to do? It’s frustrating.”