Livingston - all the threads merged

[ATLIS]

2 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

For the guys calling for Martindale to go....who do we replace him with? Realistically

I suppose that's what interviews are for but I imagine Bartley could be an option?

[Cptn Hooch]

I suppose that's what interviews are for but I imagine Bartley could be an option?

I'd argue Bartley is a huge part of the management team already. Don't know how much of a difference he would make when people are saying Martindale's inexperience is the issue

[ATLIS]

1 minute ago, Cptn Hooch said:

5 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

I suppose that's what interviews are for but I imagine Bartley could be an option?

I'd argue Bartley is a huge part of the management team already. Don't know how much of a difference he would make when people are saying Martindale's inexperience is the issue

More so saying he should get an interview but the main issue for me right now is the style of football, it's horrific. It was bearable when it brought results but we're really struggling now

[Whitburn Vale]

IMO,It comes down to if he can keep us up in the Premiership,I'd give him until the end of the season.

If we end up in the Championship,(which let's be honest is our level),then he should walk either upstairs or out the door.....

[LiviLion]

Plenty managers available if we wanted a new one. Martindale's input is clearly valuable (especially when it comes to a guaranteed result against Celtic), but IMO he's not a manager. A cracking coach maybe, and a very good assistant, but I think we need someone else with a bit more experience either alongside DM or with their own assistant and DM moving upstairs to DoF.

A lot of managers are far too stubborn with their tactics, I actually think Martindale has the opposite problem. We were playing some really nice football at times with our 4-3-3, I don't even know when or why we've started playing 3 at the back and lumping the ball up over Bruce Anderson's head. It was like we finally had players back from injury, started looking settled and the results would start to come, and he's changed it. He's too focussed on "mixing it up" that it sometimes looks like the players don't really know what they're supposed to be doing, not to mention that his "mixing it up" is very predictable and stopped catching the opposition out back in February, they just expect us to change our shape and most likely know how to handle it while our players are the ones left trying to adjust.

We've got about 8 left backs and I couldn't even tell you if any of them are very good. Other than that, we have a good looking squad and you'd like to think that we should be performing a lot better. I can accept not winning games, it's the manner we're doing it that's annoying me.

 

 

With all that said, it's a very tight league this year and a win or two has us looking up again. Problem is I don't see us doing very well in an actual relegation battle with our lack of experience in the dugout.

Edited December 3, 2021 by LiviLion

[ol1vercloff]

Martindale isn't even sure if he enjoys the job.  If we can't get an experienced assistant in to help him, I'd rather see him go back to his old job of assistant/head of recruitment/puppet master and get a front man in to do what Martindale says.  Or get back to the hoofball that worked so well!

[ATLIS]

2 hours ago, LiviLion said:

Plenty managers available if we wanted a new one. Martindale's input is clearly valuable (especially when it comes to a guaranteed result against Celtic), but IMO he's not a manager. A cracking coach maybe, and a very good assistant, but I think we need someone else with a bit more experience either alongside DM or with their own assistant and DM moving upstairs to DoF.

A lot of managers are far too stubborn with their tactics, I actually think Martindale has the opposite problem. We were playing some really nice football at times with our 4-3-3, I don't even know when or why we've started playing 3 at the back and lumping the ball up over Bruce Anderson's head. It was like we finally had players back from injury, started looking settled and the results would start to come, and he's changed it. He's too focussed on "mixing it up" that it sometimes looks like the players don't really know what they're supposed to be doing, not to mention that his "mixing it up" is very predictable and stopped catching the opposition out back in February, they just expect us to change our shape and most likely know how to handle it while our players are the ones left trying to adjust.

We've got about 8 left backs and I couldn't even tell you if any of them are very good. Other than that, we have a good looking squad and you'd like to think that we should be performing a lot better. I can accept not winning games, it's the manner we're doing it that's annoying me.

 

 

With all that said, it's a very tight league this year and a win or two has us looking up again. Problem is I don't see us doing very well in an actual relegation battle with our lack of experience in the dugout.

100% this, spot on, can't imagine the players would be too happy having to play these tactics either

[thruthenight]

We were shite on Wednesday, but calling for Martindale's head is an overreaction IMO. We've got the lowest budget in the league by a distance this year, we've had to replace a big chunk of the squad, and we've had big injury problems all season. It's pretty clear how much we miss Pittman and Sibbald when they're not fit.

If we're not cut adrift by the end of December, I'm still optimistic that we'll be fine. Pittman and Sibbald are a big upgrade to the midfield, when they're fit we'll be a lot more competitive. While Anderson has improved, he's a large downgrade on JET and Dykes, and doesn't fit in the long ball setup at all. Nouble should be a big improvement there.

If Martindale goes upstairs, then we'd need to replace him with someone with more experience than Marvin IMO. Not at all convinced that we'd get someone with the calibre that we're looking for.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, thruthenight said:

It's pretty clear how much we miss Pittman and Sibbald when they're not fit.

Indeed, Sibbald is the best passer in the squad and Pittman is the heartbeat of the team. I hope they're available again this month. Tactically, I feel the two man centre mid has been overrun in the 3-4-2-1 formation of the last two games. Too much ground for Holt and Omeonga to have to cover. Having Pittman or Sibbald available to instead field a 3 man centre mid would give more stability.

Edited December 4, 2021 by FreedomFarter

[ATLIS]

20 hours ago, thruthenight said:

We were shite on Wednesday, but calling for Martindale's head is an overreaction IMO. We've got the lowest budget in the league by a distance this year, we've had to replace a big chunk of the squad, and we've had big injury problems all season. It's pretty clear how much we miss Pittman and Sibbald when they're not fit.

If we're not cut adrift by the end of December, I'm still optimistic that we'll be fine. Pittman and Sibbald are a big upgrade to the midfield, when they're fit we'll be a lot more competitive. While Anderson has improved, he's a large downgrade on JET and Dykes, and doesn't fit in the long ball setup at all. Nouble should be a big improvement there.

If Martindale goes upstairs, then we'd need to replace him with someone with more experience than Marvin IMO. Not at all convinced that we'd get someone with the calibre that we're looking for.

Derek McInnes? Not sure he'd work under a DoF though

[LIVIFOREVER]

Pissed off with how we played against Aberdeen, but it's a typical knee jerk fan reaction caling for the manager to go, fans are so fickle from one result to another, either on top of the world, or rock bottom. We've gone from unbeaten in 5, to back to back defeats to top teams, ok Aberdeen can be shite too, but they outplayed us comfortably and just gubbed St Mirren today too, so clearly capable of good performances on their day too.

Hearts and Aberdeen have been our worst performances this season, outside of those we've competed with every team we've played, and the earlier Hibs away game was just a disaster with illness and the like, pre match and during the game. Big match against Hearts tomorrow, we need to be a lot better than the last game anyway, and get back to at least be competitive to give us a chance in games.

Anderson was being praised pre Aberdeen game and now he's suddenly not very good too, a win and everything will be positive again. 

[ATLIS]

We are limping towards January big time. Could be a bit cut off by the time the break comes...

I don't think Martindale is the one to keep us up, but if we do go down he's the best choice to get us back up. At this level his management and decision making is so far off what we need. The inexperience is woeful and the squad building has been massively lop-sided.

[Cptn Hooch]

We are limping towards January big time. Could be a bit cut off by the time the break comes...

I don't think Martindale is the one to keep us up, but if we do go down he's the best choice to get us back up. At this level his management and decision making is so far off what we need. The inexperience is woeful and the squad building has been massively lop-sided.

What game did you watch?

[ATLIS]

Just now, Cptn Hooch said:

1 minute ago, ATLIS said:

We are limping towards January big time. Could be a bit cut off by the time the break comes...

I don't think Martindale is the one to keep us up, but if we do go down he's the best choice to get us back up. At this level his management and decision making is so far off what we need. The inexperience is woeful and the squad building has been massively lop-sided.

What game did you watch?

We did well until we made subs. Taking Omeonga and Sibbald off utterly killed us. Two guys that can play the ball on the ground and drag us up the pitch. As soon as they wont off we lost our shape and started punting the ball.

We played well in the first half but Martindale's inability to play a striker cost us big time. Anderson would've finished those chances and we'd be 1-0 up at HT. Even giving an actual striker in Panayiotou a chance over Shinnie would've been better. 

Neilson showed he can make positive changes to effect the game in bringing on Haring for Woodburn, as soon as they did that Hearts looked a far better team. I don't think Martindale has the experience in him to make that kind of change to influence the game in such a way.

[Cptn Hooch]

We did well until we made subs. Taking Omeonga and Sibbald off utterly killed us. Two guys that can play the ball on the ground and drag us up the pitch. As soon as they wont off we lost our shape and started punting the ball.

We played well in the first half but Martindale's inability to play a striker cost us big time. Anderson would've finished those chances and we'd be 1-0 up at HT. Even giving an actual striker in Panayiotou a chance over Shinnie would've been better. 

Neilson showed he can make positive changes to effect the game in bringing on Haring for Woodburn, as soon as they did that Hearts looked a far better team. I don't think Martindale has the experience in him to make that kind of change to influence the game in such a way.

I wondered how that result was gonna end up being Martindale's fault [emoji2359]

[hoobahabba]

15 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

We are limping towards January big time. Could be a bit cut off by the time the break comes...

I don't think Martindale is the one to keep us up, but if we do go down he's the best choice to get us back up. At this level his management and decision making is so far off what we need. The inexperience is woeful and the squad building has been massively lop-sided.

Very harsh.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Taking Omeonga and Sibbald off utterly killed us

Omeonga had played very well and Shinnie went on to struggle when taking over the position. The logic was that while moving Shinnie there would reduce central midfield stability, he might provide more progressive passes than Omeonga. He didn't and the crumbling of the centre mid platform reduced the full backs' chances to get forward effectively. So a definite error with hindsight. The Sibbald substitution was probably correct. He had likely ran out of gas given it was his first start in almost 3 months. Montaño offers pace, attacking thrust and aerial presence which could've worked out well. 

[KingKachloul]

20 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Omeonga had played very well and Shinnie went on to struggle when taking over the position. The logic was that while moving Shinnie there would reduce central midfield stability, he might provide more progressive passes than Omeonga. He didn't and the crumbling of the centre mid platform reduced the full backs' chances to get forward effectively. So a definite error with hindsight. The Sibbald substitution was probably correct. He had likely ran out of gas given it was his first start in almost 3 months. Montaño offers pace, attacking thrust and aerial presence which could've worked out well. 

100%. Unfortunately Shinnie was awful in CM. Bad subs. 

[Cptn Hooch]

100%. Unfortunately Shinnie was awful in CM. Bad subs. 

I disagree, the subs were right.... unfortunately Shinnie didn't work out.

[KingKachloul]

Just now, Cptn Hooch said:

3 minutes ago, KingKachloul said:

100%. Unfortunately Shinnie was awful in CM. Bad subs. 

I disagree, the subs were right.... unfortunately Shinnie didn't work out.

Aye?

What did Montano do? What did Panayiotou do? Metal comment.