Livingston - all the threads merged

[ATLIS]

The big worry for me is getting the likes of Stryjek, Devlin, Sibbald, Forrest and Hamilton tied up on longer deals. Sibbald would be a huge loss for us if he goes

[Lothiangamer]

35 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

The big worry for me is getting the likes of Stryjek, Devlin, Sibbald, Forrest and Hamilton tied up on longer deals. Sibbald would be a huge loss for us if he goes

Maximum deal we will give a player is 3 years, more often 2 years with a 1 year option.  Stryjek and Devlin are here this season and next unless a decent bid comes in, and Hamilton, Sibbald and Forrest, I have no doubt they will be in discussions for an extension or will be soon.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Wouldn't worry me if Hamilton left, keep hoping he'll show some form in front of goals but just not seeing it, and he hasn't the mobility we need to be useful when not scoring goals. He may well fit into another team's system, and turn out a good player at this level, but imo he's like a man short in this Livi team.

Sibbs keeps getting sore ones this season, starting to wonder if he's being targeted, hell of a bad luck if he isn't, that and getting covid, he isn't getting a chance to help us win games, and he's prob our best player.

[LogieLivi]

Wouldn't worry me if Hamilton left, keep hoping he'll show some form in front of goals but just not seeing it, and he hasn't the mobility we need to be useful when not scoring goals. He may well fit into another team's system, and turn out a good player at this level, but imo he's like a man short in this Livi team.
Sibbs keeps getting sore ones this season, starting to wonder if he's being targeted, hell of a bad luck if he isn't, that and getting covid, he isn't getting a chance to help us win games, and he's prob our best player.

Hamilton proved the last 2 seasons that he can score goals.
Both times playing in a front 2.
Play him and Anderson up front and we will get goals.
A partnership a-la Miller and Hardie.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, LogieLivi said:

Hamilton proved the last 2 seasons that he can score goals.
Both times playing in a front 2.
Play him and Anderson up front and we will get goals.
A partnership a-la Miller and Hardie.

Yeah at a lower level than this though, so far he's been easily handled by Premiership defenders, and looks like a boy playing against men. He's got the build to do better, but maybe still needs the experience and learn how to impose himself more, and at least put himself about so he isn't so easily defended against. You don't even need to be as big as him, wee Robbo did it, just get stuck in and force your way through, or get in against a CB and roll them etc. 

Hardie could also still play as a lone striker and do some damage, in clips of Hamilton out on loan a couple of seasons back i thought he had a similar style to Hardie, but now he just looks a pale comparison. 

Can't see us going 2 up front either, not unless it's about the last 20 mins of the game as a tactical switch, pushing for a goal, agree with you though, and would like us to go with 2 strikers now and again.

[ATLIS]

His issue is just that he seems lazy as f**k, he needs to either get his fitness up or start to chase defenders around and hassle more. We can't carry a passenger up front

[LogieLivi]

Yeah at a lower level than this though, so far he's been easily handled by Premiership defenders, and looks like a boy playing against men. He's got the build to do better, but maybe still needs the experience and learn how to impose himself more, and at least put himself about so he isn't so easily defended against. You don't even need to be as big as him, wee Robbo did it, just get stuck in and force your way through, or get in against a CB and roll them etc. 
Hardie could also still play as a lone striker and do some damage, in clips of Hamilton out on loan a couple of seasons back i thought he had a similar style to Hardie, but now he just looks a pale comparison. 
Can't see us going 2 up front either, not unless it's about the last 20 mins of the game as a tactical switch, pushing for a goal, agree with you though, and would like us to go with 2 strikers now and again.

The level thing doesn't really stick with me.
Pittman came from Junior football and has been a major player for us.
Hamilton has the ability but he's not Lyndon Dykes or Scott Robinson or Ryan Hardie. He is Jack Hamilton and has his own traits.
He won header after header after header yesterday but theres no one there to run on to it. Held his own against The Rangers last season when he came in from the cold when Dykes was on his way out.
Only getting 15/20 mins in a game is nowhere near long enough to make a significant impact on a game as a striker. Especially when we know the long ball doesn't work with Anderson but does with Hamilton. Anderson can run onto a ball but Hamilton slightly less so.
So pair the both of them up and we will see results.
Nouble on the other hand seems to be the right fit for us based on his performances as a lone striker at Arbroath.
Everyone wants to see him back and not one of them are saying "aye he's doing well but it's at a lower level". They all want him back now.
Hamilton will come good but he needs to be utilised correctly and Martindale just isn't seeing that.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 minute ago, ATLIS said:

His issue is just that he seems lazy as f**k, he needs to either get his fitness up or start to chase defenders around and hassle more. We can't carry a passenger up front

Yeah i've said this already too, looks like he's just going through the motions when going for a 50/50 ball, or chasing down an opposition player, and has no conviction to win it.

[LogieLivi]

His issue is just that he seems lazy as f**k, he needs to either get his fitness up or start to chase defenders around and hassle more. We can't carry a passenger up front

Again with this, I totally disagree. He seems to me like the farthest thing from lazy.
Penrice in the first half yesterday did a grand total of f**k all. Just standing around. Never asking for a pass and never making a run. Took him till about the 70th minute to do so.

Hamilton doesn't seem to press as much because he will be preserving what pace he does have for when it's needed. Not for chasing lost causes constantly.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 minute ago, LogieLivi said:

The level thing doesn't really stick with me.
Pittman came from Junior football and has been a major player for us.
Hamilton has the ability but he's not Lyndon Dykes or Scott Robinson or Ryan Hardie. He is Jack Hamilton and has his own traits.
He won header after header after header yesterday but theres no one there to run on to it. Held his own against The Rangers last season when he came in from the cold when Dykes was on his way out.
Only getting 15/20 mins in a game is nowhere near long enough to make a significant impact on a game as a striker. Especially when we know the long ball doesn't work with Anderson but does with Hamilton. Anderson can run onto a ball but Hamilton slightly less so.
So pair the both of them up and we will see results.
Nouble on the other hand seems to be the right fit for us based on his performances as a lone striker at Arbroath.
Everyone wants to see him back and not one of them are saying "aye he's doing well but it's at a lower level". They all want him back now.
Hamilton will come good but he needs to be utilised correctly and Martindale just isn't seeing that.

Yeah and Pittman made the step up, Hamilton hasn't managed that yet. He scored a goal last season, and the season before, before going back out on loan, but this is now his big chance and so far it isn't happening for him. Hoping he proves me wrong but i'm not seeing it in games this season, and we need him to step it up.

[LIVIFOREVER]

7 minutes ago, LogieLivi said:

Again with this, I totally disagree. He seems to me like the farthest thing from lazy.
Penrice in the first half yesterday did a grand total of f**k all. Just standing around. Never asking for a pass and never making a run. Took him till about the 70th minute to do so.

Hamilton doesn't seem to press as much because he will be preserving what pace he does have for when it's needed. Not for chasing lost causes constantly.

But we need our striker to press defenders or it makes it too easy for teams to come up the pitch with the ball to set up attacks, as i said, he's like a man short the way he walks about letting players run past him, big JET was the same last season when he was letting players jog past him. It makes things harder for everyone else once the opposition is allowed to come up the pitch with the ball past Hamilton, and have the time to pick out a pass.

It isn't just that side of things though, he's not getting past defenders either.

Edited September 12, 2021 by LIVIFOREVER

[LogieLivi]

Yeah and Pittman made the step up, Hamilton hasn't managed that yet. He scored a goal last season, and the season before, before going back out on loan, but this is now his big chance and so far it isn't happening for him. Hoping he proves me wrong but i'm not seeing it in games this season, and we need him to step it up.

You can't make a step up by playing 15 mins at the end of a game and just having long balls lumped up at you though?

[EdinburghLivi]

32 minutes ago, LogieLivi said:

The level thing doesn't really stick with me.
Pittman came from Junior football and has been a major player for us.
Hamilton has the ability but he's not Lyndon Dykes or Scott Robinson or Ryan Hardie. He is Jack Hamilton and has his own traits.
He won header after header after header yesterday but theres no one there to run on to it. Held his own against The Rangers last season when he came in from the cold when Dykes was on his way out.
Only getting 15/20 mins in a game is nowhere near long enough to make a significant impact on a game as a striker. Especially when we know the long ball doesn't work with Anderson but does with Hamilton. Anderson can run onto a ball but Hamilton slightly less so.
So pair the both of them up and we will see results.
Nouble on the other hand seems to be the right fit for us based on his performances as a lone striker at Arbroath.
Everyone wants to see him back and not one of them are saying "aye he's doing well but it's at a lower level". They all want him back now.
Hamilton will come good but he needs to be utilised correctly and Martindale just isn't seeing that.

Agree with every word of this.

2 forwards feels a bit weird for me given our success with 1 over the last few seasons but I think it might be something to look at, given our lack of goals. Unfortunately due to the centre-back situation, Martindale has backed himself into a corner and I can only see 2 up top working in a 4-4-2. 

If Martindale is not prepared to go to a 2, Hamilton or Panayiotou should get a shot. Just requires Shinnie and Forrest to play closer to them.

Edited September 12, 2021 by EdinburghLivi

[ATLIS]

If we had more competent defenders at the club 352 would be the way to go to fit the 1,000 midfielders into the side

[spiggle]

9 hours ago, ATLIS said:

If we had more competent defenders at the club 352 would be the way to go to fit the 1,000 midfielders into the side

Yeah but it doesn't fit the 2000 left backs we have at the club. 

Something has to change to help Bruce out. He seems to be running about like a headless chicken with no support atm. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

10 hours ago, LogieLivi said:

You can't make a step up by playing 15 mins at the end of a game and just having long balls lumped up at you though?

He got more than that against Hibs, with Anderson going off ill, i thought the forced sub would be a good thing as Anderson wasn't having much joy, but it made no difference, was next to no goal threat from us that game, and McGregor strolled the game against our strikers. That would back up what you're saying that we need 2 up front right enough, because the system we're playing we need a big physical combative striker like Dykes, or a buzz bomb nuisance like Robbo, and we've neither of those in Anderson and Hamilton. So the striker is playing a support role having to hold up play to bring in the attacking mids. And Hamilton isn't suited to that.

[LIVIFOREVER]

5 minutes ago, spiggle said:

Yeah but it doesn't fit the 2000 left backs we have at the club. 

Something has to change to help Bruce out. He seems to be running about like a headless chicken with no support atm. 

The headless chicken routine has worked for us in the past, but the attacking mids have to get up and win 2nd balls, otherwise the striker is isolated and all his chasing about is going to waste. It could all come together for us but at the moment it looks disjointed and not working.

 

Something that should be better is our crosses into the box and esp dead balls being put in, those should be worked on in training but look absolutely dreadful this season. You just know when we have a set piece it will be a total wasted ball.

[TAFKAC]

It's also worth pointing out that Hamilton has only played fewer than 15 minutes in one of his last 12 appearances for the club.

[andylivi1]

The Hamilton debate is an interesting one for me. 
The boy clearly has an eye for goal, he’s proved it during his loan spells. 
 

What I would say is he doesn’t occupy defenders enough for me, we built success on getting the ball into the final 3rd and playing our football after that, this was mainly because our long balls forward weren’t comfortably handled by opposition defences, our striker forced errors, forced throw ins, free-kicks etc, are we getting that from Jack? That’s not just on Jack mind you, do we have enough runners from midfield picking up these 2nd balls? Probably not either. 
 

Jack reminds me a wee bit of Kris Boyd in that Boyd clearly came alive inside the box, Jack’s the same, but out with that sometimes goes missing in games, have we created enough to get the best out of him? Not even close. 

I am desperate for Jack to succeed but I want more from him when we don’t have the ball as well personally. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, andylivi1 said:

The Hamilton debate is an interesting one for me. 
The boy clearly has an eye for goal, he’s proved it during his loan spells. 
 

What I would say is he doesn’t occupy defenders enough for me, we built success on getting the ball into the final 3rd and playing our football after that, this was mainly because our long balls forward weren’t comfortably handled by opposition defences, our striker forced errors, forced throw ins, free-kicks etc, are we getting that from Jack? That’s not just on Jack mind you, do we have enough runners from midfield picking up these 2nd balls? Probably not either. 
 

Jack reminds me a wee bit of Kris Boyd in that Boyd clearly came alive inside the box, Jack’s the same, but out with that sometimes goes missing in games, have we created enough to get the best out of him? Not even close. 

I am desperate for Jack to succeed but I want more from him when we don’t have the ball as well personally. 

Maybe what Hamilton needs to succeed is Nouble playing alongside him. Nouble isn't as clinical a goal scorer as JET was, but looks an ideal pairing for someone who is a goal scorer, big and physical, and like JET, good with the ball at his feet, to take on defenders and create space for a striker. Guess we'll have to wait till January before we get to see how that would work.