Livingston - all the threads merged

[Scrutinizer]

Livi as we know have one of the lowest budgets, even so, should be able to assemble a better squad than they have
Next season I can't see anything but a relegation battle, I just can't see where the points are coming from, this squad is simply not good enough
A season mainly of poor setups,tactics,player choices in games, especially since the League cup semi

There are too many players playing on their past reputation and successes 
Big questions over Pittman, is his time up, a big let down this season, Mullin should never have got a new contract
Bartley should be hanging up his boots
Guthrie struggles with quick forwards who can turn him easily, needs another strong defender beside him
Holt, no doubt tries in games, but brings nothing in an attacking sense, far to negative in most games.
Sibbald is good enough for next season
Fizzywater is not a central defender, not strong enough, tends to get dragged out of position, which puts more pressure on Guthrie

 I would keep ,Devlin,Guthrie,Stryjek,Sibbald,Forrest,Jet,Longridge,Holt (as the only defensive midfielder, don't need 2)

Bartley, Pittman,Fizzywater,1 good game in every 6 is not good enough, also
A.t.s,Poplatnik,Lithgow,Jacobs,Hamilton,Reilly,McCrorie,S.k.a,DiVita,all need moved on.

Stryjek   6/10
Devlin    5/10
Fitzwater 3/10
Guthrie   5/10
Longridge 5/10
Bartley   2/10 
Holt      5/10
Jet       7/10
Pittman   2/10
Sibbald   6/10
Poplatnik 2/10

Kabia     4/10

Mullin    3/10
 

[DukDukGoose]

16 minutes ago, Scrutinizer said:

Livi as we know have one of the lowest budgets, even so, should be able to assemble a better squad than they have
Next season I can't see anything but a relegation battle, I just can't see where the points are coming from, this squad is simply not good enough
A season mainly of poor setups,tactics,player choices in games, especially since the League cup semi

There are too many players playing on their past reputation and successes 
Big questions over Pittman, is his time up, a big let down this season, Mullin should never have got a new contract
Bartley should be hanging up his boots
Guthrie struggles with quick forwards who can turn him easily, needs another strong defender beside him
Holt, no doubt tries in games, but brings nothing in an attacking sense, far to negative in most games.
Sibbald is good enough for next season
Fizzywater is not a central defender, not strong enough, tends to get dragged out of position, which puts more pressure on Guthrie

 I would keep ,Devlin,Guthrie,Stryjek,Sibbald,Forrest,Jet,Longridge,Holt (as the only defensive midfielder, don't need 2)

Bartley, Pittman,Fizzywater,1 good game in every 6 is not good enough, also
A.t.s,Poplatnik,Lithgow,Jacobs,Hamilton,Reilly,McCrorie,S.k.a,DiVita,all need moved on.

Stryjek   6/10
Devlin    5/10
Fitzwater 3/10
Guthrie   5/10
Longridge 5/10
Bartley   2/10 
Holt      5/10
Jet       7/10
Pittman   2/10
Sibbald   6/10
Poplatnik 2/10

Kabia     4/10

Mullin    3/10
 

A bit wild? Will finish at least 6th and were running Aberdeen close for 4th.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Merkland Red

[Troy.1995]

Del boy,I rest my case.Fech il pay for the room for both of you if need be.Youve both got minimal valid points and I mean minimal.For 26 years this club has punched way above our status,no argument there.But the vitriol that comes week in week out from people like you two when all we want to do is support our team fruitloops or not is frankly nauseous. At some time we will drop down divisions which will probably please you two.But until then leave us alone.Livi fans are happy with what we've got at the moment,and the continues dross from you two won't change that

[Livi Del Boy]

8 minutes ago, Troy.1995 said:

Del boy,I rest my case.Fech il pay for the room for both of you if need be.Youve both got minimal valid points and I mean minimal.For 26 years this club has punched way above our status,no argument there.But the vitriol that comes week in week out from people like you two when all we want to do is support our team fruitloops or not is frankly nauseous. At some time we will drop down divisions which will probably please you two.But until then leave us alone.Livi fans are happy with what we've got at the moment,and the continues dross from you two won't change that

Another ostrich. You know it’s coming. 

[ATLIS]

28 minutes ago, Scrutinizer said:

Livi as we know have one of the lowest budgets, even so, should be able to assemble a better squad than they have
Next season I can't see anything but a relegation battle, I just can't see where the points are coming from, this squad is simply not good enough
A season mainly of poor setups,tactics,player choices in games, especially since the League cup semi

There are too many players playing on their past reputation and successes 
Big questions over Pittman, is his time up, a big let down this season, Mullin should never have got a new contract
Bartley should be hanging up his boots
Guthrie struggles with quick forwards who can turn him easily, needs another strong defender beside him
Holt, no doubt tries in games, but brings nothing in an attacking sense, far to negative in most games.
Sibbald is good enough for next season
Fizzywater is not a central defender, not strong enough, tends to get dragged out of position, which puts more pressure on Guthrie

I thought Pittman had one of his best games for a while today, a lot more noticeable and involved. Faded late into the second half however
Mullin had the personal option to extend his deal, not the club but I reckon he'll come good if used properly
Bartley just needs slowly phased out, will be fine in games where we need experience
Had mentioned earlier that Guthrie desperately needs a big bad b*****d CB next time him to do the dirty work
Holt, I'm in agreement, he doesn't do much
Fitzwater could do with 6 months on loan in the Championship to get used to what we need him to be

[Troy.1995]

Is it,Scrutinizers waiting for you.Join him .Sure your combined rhetoric will be riveting. Would love to join you both.But suspect alas not.Enjoy your evening together ❤. 

[Afro]

2 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

We will lose so many goals next season if we go with Devlin and Longridge as full backs. 

You can maybe get away with one of them charging up the pitch but both of them going leaves us so exposed at the back. I think Fitzwater needs protection to get through the game and he just isn't getting it in this system.

Not sure if someone in the midfield isn't doing their job or if they're all charging forwards to get one of the hit and hope cutbacks from the right. Broken record but Devlin playing on the overlap is making me lose the will to live. 

Only two positives from today were that Kabia looks great and Stryjek is clearly a good keeper now he's being tested from a crap defence. 

Such a disappointing end to the season and I'm really not liking what this team has become. 

Wholeheartedly agree with all of this. I've been pleasantly surprised with how much Longridge seems to have progressed since he left us, but it's no coincidence since he's came into the side and become a fixture in it that we seem to have went to pot a bit. I've absolutely no faith in us keeping a clean sheet any time I'm watching a match.

I feel for Fitzwater a bit as he is clearly going through a patch of poor form personally, but I don't think there is a suitable replacement for him to rotate out with, which is quite a frightening statement. Ambrose and ATS are obviously away, Lithgow more than likely as well, but all three haven't covered themselves in glory since February time. I would go as far to say that we need, as a minimum, a pair of centre halves to come in during the summer.

1 hour ago, ATLIS said:

Not saying Martindale should go, but the good merit he had saved up from that great run is gone now. Questions will start to get asked if we continue on this track for the last 2 games. When he was appointed I'm sure it was mentioned as a thing to the summer and see what happens, so possibly he steps back to assistant again?

Mentions being appointed until the end of the season here:

https://livingstonfc.co.uk/david-martindale-appointed-as-manager-of-livingston-fc/

With nothing since (as far as I can see) to indicate an extension. Like you, not suggesting he goes, but we've fell off a cliff since the final and it doesn't seem like any of his methods have turned it around thus far. Is it a case that, mentally, the squad just need the summer to start afresh, or is there more to it? Martindale has been the main driver, undoubtedly, behind the scenes in getting the club from L1 to here, to me it'd be a total bodyblow if he left altogether. 

[ATLIS]

Just now, Afro said:

Mentions being appointed until the end of the season here:

https://livingstonfc.co.uk/david-martindale-appointed-as-manager-of-livingston-fc/

With nothing since (as far as I can see) to indicate an extension. Like you, not suggesting he goes, but we've fell off a cliff since the final and it doesn't seem like any of his methods have turned it around thus far. Is it a case that, mentally, the squad just need the summer to start afresh, or is there more to it? Martindale has been the main driver, undoubtedly, behind the scenes in getting the club from L1 to here, to me it'd be a total bodyblow if he left altogether. 

Honestly the right move is that he goes upstairs for a Director of Football job. He can do his 'head of football operations' stuff there and still have the main influence on transfers that he's had before. 

Big question would be who comes in and who is okay working under a DoF. I hope to f**k it isn't Fox because that idea can get in the bin.

[Afro]

2 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Honestly the right move is that he goes upstairs for a Director of Football job. He can do his 'head of football operations' stuff there and still have the main influence on transfers that he's had before. 

Big question would be who comes in and who is okay working under a DoF. I hope to f**k it isn't Fox because that idea can get in the bin.

That's the $1m question - whilst we achieved the actual aim for the season at the time of Holt's departure months ago (avoiding the drop), the spectre of the next incumbent being replaced with Martindale to bail the season out again if things go Pete Tong may be further off-putting to potential candidates.

Regardless of which role he's in, it's a massive summer for Martindale and club on the whole. We've lost some key players in previous summers, but this very much feels like a substantially larger rebuild of sorts. At the very least, looking for a 2nd choice keeper, a pair of centre halves and another full-back, a centre midfielder, and at least one striker. Although given the total meal we've made of signing any competent striker since Dykes' arrival, I'm sceptical.

[ATLIS]

13 minutes ago, Afro said:

That's the $1m question - whilst we achieved the actual aim for the season at the time of Holt's departure months ago (avoiding the drop), the spectre of the next incumbent being replaced with Martindale to bail the season out again if things go Pete Tong may be further off-putting to potential candidates.

Regardless of which role he's in, it's a massive summer for Martindale and club on the whole. We've lost some key players in previous summers, but this very much feels like a substantially larger rebuild of sorts. At the very least, looking for a 2nd choice keeper, a pair of centre halves and another full-back, a centre midfielder, and at least one striker. Although given the total meal we've made of signing any competent striker since Dykes' arrival, I'm sceptical.

I really do think that we'll formalise things with Martindale going up to DoF and any accusations of the manager being a puppet for the assistant disappears as DoF is in charge of the manager. That way DM can continue doing what he has for years in a formal capacity with his fit and proper test passed to clear his name. 

It's going to be a huge summer for us. The ideal manager would be someone like Stephen Robinson, done brilliant, out of work and could want to get back in to football. Even someone like Hartley who has reinvented and redeemed themselves and are due a step up. His issue was recruitment as far as I know, as he just got in loads of players and hoped a few of them worked. If he has Martindale in charge of recruitment and can have players cherry picked for him it could be a success (and I know folk will quote this with shock at even mentioning Hartley but he's done great work with Cove). 

2nd choice keeper will be Schwake I imagine, he'll play in the cups and get a chance to step up. I think we need big physical b*****ds signed who are willing to smash folk, and let Guthrie focus on the more delicate side of defending in getting a toe in and being dominant in the air. Possibly Obileye fits the bill for that but we'd still need one more in. We have Hamilton coming back but we probably need 1 or 2 strikers and can let SAL and Poplatnik go. Kabia looks like he should get a chance next season to fight Forrest for a spot. Possibly a RW to do the same with Mullin? 

[capt_oats]

9 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

I really do think that we'll formalise things with Martindale going up to DoF and any accusations of the manager being a puppet for the assistant disappears as DoF is in charge of the manager. That way DM can continue doing what he has for years in a formal capacity with his fit and proper test passed to clear his name. 

It's going to be a huge summer for us. The ideal manager would be someone like Stephen Robinson, done brilliant, out of work and could want to get back in to football. Even someone like Hartley who has reinvented and redeemed themselves and are due a step up. His issue was recruitment as far as I know, as he just got in loads of players and hoped a few of them worked. If he has Martindale in charge of recruitment and can have players cherry picked for him it could be a success (and I know folk will quote this with shock at even mentioning Hartley but he's done great work with Cove). 

Robinson had complete control to run Motherwell as he wanted, top to bottom. He's on record about that.

Quote

"I assured Graham it was a top-class football club in terms of the people there. I had my reasons for leaving, but there was nothing I could say to discourage Graham," he said.

"I could only encourage him to work at a very good football club and assure him he would be allowed to run it from top to bottom with no interference whatsoever."

Link

He was also frustrated by the limitations in terms of funding that the club has in terms of infrastructure.

Quote

"I just thought the time was right for me personally to go. I didn't believe I could take the club any further.

"There was frustration in there, which was nobody's fault.

"I was desperate for a new training ground. I was desperate for infrastructure to improve, but there isn't a magic wand, without money that's very difficult to do.

"The chairman Jim McMahon and [chief executive] Alan Burrows are men I couldn't say anything but good things about.

"Allan and Jim were behind the idea but it didn't quite materialise and I felt I couldn't take the club to the next level.

"I felt the club had reached the ceiling of where we could go."

Link

I'd imagine he'd be looking to trade up in terms of the funding he gets wherever he ends up next and I'd imagine he'd hope to be able to run the team/club as he wanted (given his bad experience at Oldham). I think Martindale's role at the club would be a massive issue for him.

[The Wrong Car]

I'd say a backup keeper, 2 CBs and a LB for competition, a starting striker are needed. If Tiffoney and Hamilton return I think that gives us enough options up front and in the wide positions, but I'd be hesitant to go through another season with a patchwork frontline. 

As much as it's been a disappointing season, I'd disagree that it's the biggest rebuild job. After out first season up we lost our starting keeper, two centre backs, centre mid and striker. 

[ATLIS]

1 minute ago, capt_oats said:

Robinson had complete control to run Motherwell as he wanted, top to bottom. He's on record about that.

He was also frustrated by the limitations in terms of funding that the club has in terms of infrastructure.

I'd imagine he'd be looking to trade up in terms of the funding he gets wherever he ends up next and I'd imagine he'd hope to be able to run the team/club as he wanted (given his bad experience at Oldham). I think Martindale's role at the club would be a massive issue for him.

Yeah you're more than likely right. Was talking to folk earlier, there's really a huge lack of okay-ish managers out of work/could step up when it comes to Livi right now

[ATLIS]

Just now, The Wrong Car said:

I'd say a backup keeper, 2 CBs and a LB for competition, a starting striker are needed. If Tiffoney and Hamilton return I think that gives us enough options up front and in the wide positions, but I'd be hesitant to go through another season with a patchwork frontline. 

As much as it's been a disappointing season, I'd disagree that it's the biggest rebuild job. After out first season up we lost our starting keeper, two centre backs, centre mid and striker. 

I'd say there's next to no chance of Tiffoney staying, he's out of contract and will get a game elsewhere

[The Wrong Car]

3 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

I'd say there's next to no chance of Tiffoney staying, he's out of contract and will get a game elsewhere

I guess it depends what we offer. I'd imagine Partick Thistle would be tempted, however with the rumoured departures in attack he may just move up the pecking order. 

I'd also add a backup attacking midfielder, as we don't seem to have a backup option for Pittman. 

[Troy.1995]

So much rhetoric on here,give me a Break. Get real my fellow Livi fans.Weve done what we had to do 12 months ago.Survived with aplomb.Turn the clock Forward 12 months.Same again. Il take that.We are a wee diddy  club punching above our weight. And long may that continue.

 

 

 

 

 

[ATLIS]

16 minutes ago, Troy.1995 said:

So much rhetoric on here,give me a Break. Get real my fellow Livi fans.Weve done what we had to do 12 months ago.Survived with aplomb.Turn the clock Forward 12 months.Same again. Il take that.We are a wee diddy  club punching above our weight. And long may that continue.

 

Yes it's been a successful season but the recent run has been inexcusable, regardless of past success or not. I'd take survival again, but clinching 6th from the realms of 4th is a horrific return and we should've done far better given the groundwork we'd lain for ourselves after that run.  Livi fans are completely right in saying that recent form is terrible and should be addressed. At the start of the season the expectations are always survival, but if we were 15 points clear with 5 to go and threw it away on GD would we still hear the same 'punching above our weight' nonsense? 

[Troy.1995]

JustSo much rhetoric. Give me a break.Weve achieved what we had to do with aplomb..Yeh,its still in our hands for 5th.Not interested  tbf.More concerned  about next season tbh.We are a Premier team.Hopefully we will be the same this time next season .

 

 

[Troy.1995]

6 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Yes it's been a successful season but the recent run has been inexcusable, regardless of past success or not. I'd take survival again, but clinching 6th from the realms of 4th is a horrific return and we should've done far better given the groundwork we'd lain for ourselves after that run.  Livi fans are completely right in saying that recent form is terrible and should be addressed. At the start of the season the expectations are always survival, but if we were 15 points clear with 5 to go and threw it away on GD would we still hear the same 'punching above our weight' nonsense? 

ATLIS.I feel your pain. I feel this was an opportunity we've tossed against the wind..And gree,punching above our weight might have been the wrong assumption. I'm gutted itz came to this

 

[LogieLivi]

JustSo much rhetoric. Give me a break.Weve achieved what we had to do with aplomb..Yeh,its still in our hands for 5th.Not interested  tbf.More concerned  about next season tbh.We are a Premier team.Hopefully we will be the same this time next season .
 
 

2 league wins since the 1st of February.

2.