Livingston - all the threads merged

[KingKachloul]

We are in so much trouble. 

JET and Bartley need dropped. Two passengers. Lawson should be starting in Bartley's place and Serrano should be playing left back. We don't have a solution up top, but I can tell you its definitely not JET, I'd pretty much rather anyone else be playing up there at the moment. 

We are so soft in defence. A continuing theme for the past couple of years is how absolutely shite we are at set pieces, both attacking and in defence. 

The substitutions are absolutely baffling, but this season I've come to expect nothing less. 

At this point we just need to hope that Hamilton persist with Rice for at least a couple of more months or we will be going down automatically. 

 

 

[Troy.1995]

These games in hand worry me.Weve had chances to pull ourselves away from this debacle,but havent taken them.We seem to be coasting through games thinking oh its gonna come.Its not.A scenario we didnt want to think about has now become a reallity. This is not the Livi,especially at home that we are used to. To lose the way we did is criminal imo.But tells me how serious the predicament we find ourselves in.Tough times ahead. 

[Guest]

As a centre forward, Tiffoney presses and harries. He positions himself in the inside channels to become available for passes. His pace means through passes over the opposition backline are an option with him. His back to goal, hold up play and lay offs can be excellent, such as with his assist for Forrest in that St Johnstone match. Beyond Tiffoney, there's Robinson who may be able to deputise and offer a similar set of attributes.

JET interprets the centre forward role very differently. He regularly drops deep into our attacking midfield space. Perhaps the idea here is that Pittman, Forrest et al can then burst ahead of him. However, this attacking strategy has served only to blunt us. JET doesn't have the energy to drop off and then later in that phase of play, arrive in the box to meet a cross. Instead he often drops off the frontline then remains there. Perhaps it's a fitness issue and that would explain his lack of defensive pressing also.

We could really do with more ball-winning bite in centre midfield. Moving Lawson to play there could well be a solution.

 

[Cptn Hooch]

As a centre forward, Tiffoney presses and harries. He positions himself in the inside channels to become available for passes. His pace means through passes over the opposition backline are an option with him. His back to goal, hold up play and lay offs can be excellent, such as with his assist for Forrest in that St Johnstone match. Beyond Tiffoney, there's Robinson who may be able to deputise and offer a similar set of attributes.
JET interprets the centre forward role very differently. He regularly drops deep into our attacking midfield space. Perhaps the idea here is that Pittman, Forrest et al can then burst ahead of him. However, this attacking strategy has served only to blunt us. JET doesn't have the energy to drop off and then later in that phase of play, arrive in the box to meet a cross. Instead he often drops off the frontline then remains there. Perhaps it's a fitness issue and that would explain his lack of defensive pressing also.
We could really do with more ball-winning bite in centre midfield. Moving Lawson to play there could well be a solution.
 

If he's not fit enough to burst into the box once or twice in a game yet then he's never going to be. I get he hasn't played much football in the last year but how many games has he had for us? It's starting to look more and more like pure lazyness...something fans of other clubs have mentioned he's partial to

[LIVIFOREVER]

Article in the DR quoting Holt as saying he'll have to examine his position as manager, funnily enough i'd noticed the last couple of games a rather subdued Martindale, sitting back in the dugout, similar to when Kenny Miller wasn't working out. wonder if Holt is going off piste this season, trying his own things.

Seems at a loss as how to fix the problem going by what he's saying anyway, which isn't good.

The talk of Tommy Wright to replace Holt is forgetting he'd have to work with Martindale, no danger that would work out.

[ATLIS]

3 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Article in the DR quoting Holt as saying he'll have to examine his position as manager, funnily enough i'd noticed the last couple of games a rather subdued Martindale, sitting back in the dugout, similar to when Kenny Miller wasn't working out. wonder if Holt is going off piste this season, trying his own things.

Seems at a loss as how to fix the problem going by what he's saying anyway, which isn't good.

The talk of Tommy Wright to replace Holt is forgetting he'd have to work with Martindale, no danger that would work out.

Just need Martindale to grow a pair and step back. Can take up DoF role if he wants but let TW deal with the rest.

All this self pity from Holt is tiring, saying he might just quit because things are hard right now. You want a manager going down fighting - not one threatening to quit

[Widge]

23 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Just need Martindale to grow a pair and step back. Can take up DoF role if he wants but let TW deal with the rest.

All this self pity from Holt is tiring, saying he might just quit because things are hard right now. You want a manager going down fighting - not one threatening to quit

Wright won’t work with a Director of Football, he wants total control over who comes in and goes out of the club. Don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t see Wright rocking up in Livingston in the same way I don’t see him going to Hamilton. Location is probably a big part of that more than anything else. 

[Hendo]

The surprise with Livi this season is they seem to have lost their hard edge. They seem to have become a bit too nice. 

[ATLIS]

23 minutes ago, Hendo said:

The surprise with Livi this season is they seem to have lost their hard edge. They seem to have become a bit too nice. 

Basically like Gary Holt, just a really lovely guy but comes across as too soft sometimes whereas Hopkin was the opposite  

[LiviLion]

FWIW if Gary Holt left we'd be more likely to end up with Neil McCann than get Tommy Wright. I don't think he should go though, still reckon he could turn it around for us. Regardless I think a lot is being made when all he's really doing is share the blame instead of publicly having a go at all of (or certain) players.

Bottom half was always going to be tight this season (we could possibly jump up to 7th with a win in our next game), but you really need to be winning against the teams below you and we're not doing that. The frustrating thing is you could put together a few different teams that look really good with the squad we have, but something's just not clicking. I don't think JET should be starting atm, I've not lost all hope for him as he seems decent with his feet and I think confidence is playing a big part in his lack of goals, but he looks knackered before he's really done anything so maybe a better idea to bring him on later in the game when everyone else is a bit tired and he can rough defenders up and put himself about; I think he probably needs another striker alongside him as well to play off him, especially if we're playing long balls up to him.

Stryjek

McMillan  -  Guthrie  -  Ambrose  -  Serrano

Mullin  -  Lawson  -  Sibbald  -  Forrest

Poplatnik  -  Tiffoney

If Tiffoney is available I'd be tempted to give that a go, Holt talked a lot about getting back to basics when he first joined or when we're in a bad patch; 4-4-2 is about as basic as it gets. Actually starting Mullin and Forrest would be a good start anyway.

On the off chance Holt did walk away (or the highly unlikely scenario he gets sacked) I'd like to see Martindale take a step back, let him have his Head of Football Operations role, let him do a bit of coaching etc, but if we end up with a new manager coming in I'd like to see them given a chance to bring their own people in. Stability in the backroom staff got us far, but maybe some small changes would do the world of good.

 

All irrelevant though, we're getting Europe this season and winning the league next season. NAP.

Edited November 22, 2020 by LiviLion

[Guest]

It's not that a hard edge or a nastiness has been lost. Those were assumed characteristics assigned to the team by occasional viewers such as journalists or away fans.

Regular watchers know that defensive solidity coupled to midfield composure were really the hallmarks of the 18/19 team. Then cutting edge in attack was added to the 19/20 team

Halkett, Lithgow and particularly Gallagher were unusually composed when on the ball. Jacobs and Byrne in centre midfield loved to slow the tempo down too, with Byrne in particular acting as the team's Xavi. All the players were on this same wavelength. In the 19/20 season, Lawless, drifting infield from his wide starting position and with a fantastic ability to hold onto the ball, had taken over from Byrne as playmaker.

This 20/21 team is much more frenetic and hurried in possession. Panicky even. The aim is clearly to play at a high tempo. Players like Jason Holt have come in and while he's an excellent player, he's the opposite to how Byrne was in that he restricts his touches to a minimum and moves the ball on far quicker. This clashes a bit with Bartley and Sibbald, both of whom excel when play is slower. We see the same clash happening in central defence. Guthrie has taken over seemlessly from Lithgow, showing the same composure both while defending and on the ball. But he's paired with the sometimes over-eager and erratic Brown. They're not on the same wavelength.

Then I don't need to explain the folly of trying to play a high tempo when JET is your starting striker.

It's this identity clash that I think we're seeing play out just now. The previous seasons saw success from slowing games down, taking the sting out of them. Not rushing about at high tempo and losing both possession and defensive shape. 

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Brown and Guthrie were outstanding playing together last season though, even Lamie had a spell at CB, we chopped and changed the back line a lot and still kept it solid, bit of a mystery why it isn't as solid this season. Esp defending set pieces.

Lithgow was excellent at picking out a long pass up the pitch, Dec and Halkett were both good at driving forward with the ball at their feet. Efe can do both, so i think he should be playing alongside Guthrie, and i'd also like us to start using both wingers and playing down the flanks, instead of these big punts down the centre to JET. We've got 4 decent attacking players that are good going down the flanks in Devlin & Mullin on the right, and Serrano & Forrest on the left, we should be using them more effectively, and getting JET and Pitts in the box for balls across the 6 yard box. Serrano and Mullin are particularly good at crossing the ball, Forrest and Mullin can cut inside and score goals too.

 

This using JET the same way we did Dykes just isn't working though, if we're playing that way then Tiffoney has been far better.

[LogieLivi]

Thats Gary Holt away.

Unsure how I feel about it tbh.

[Cptn Hooch]

Thats Gary Holt away.

Unsure how I feel about it tbh.

I'm genuinely disappointed. Felt he was the right man to turn it round and personally can't see who we'd replace him with. Think there will be a few happy folk though as the "Holt out" shouts were growing

[Afro]

I’m absolutely gutted at that. I certainly don’t think we’ll get a replacement* in who is a better calibre of manager. 
 

That said, there was obviously something remiss this season and he didn’t think he could turn it around. Deserves some credit for walking away and giving a replacement as much time to turn it round. 

[RandomGuy.]

Bollocks to admit he's run of out ideas and walk away.

How many managers aimlessly cling on and f**k the club over well beyond their natural date?

[Rugster]

Only one thing for it. Return of the main man.

[LiviLion]

Buzzing for the deluded Livi fans shouting for Tommy Wright among other unrealistic shouts.

 

Hope Holt can go on to decent things, done brilliant and just didn't click this season, deserves a lot of respect for the way he's gone about it too. 

[Jacky1990]

Just now, Rugster said:

Only one thing for it. Return of the main man.

You just know that him, Gary Caldwell, Jim McIntyre and all that crowd will be lining up to be on Sportsound this week.

[LogieLivi]

Marvin Bartley will most likely take over till January.