Livingston - all the threads merged

[Guest Rscot]

3 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

15 minutes ago, Rscot said:

Don’t you think we look susceptible to the counter at times yesterday because we had Bartley and Sibbald to cover the whole midfield? I think with Holt in beside Sibbald and Bartley we’d be a lot more solid in the middle of the park and still dangerous up front with Jet, Forrest, Mullin. I’d like to see Pitt’s played wide right or left at some point too, I think he’d do a good job on either side of Jet. Competition for places is good. 
I think playing 4-3-3 would allow us to sit in the opposition half, dominate possession, be able to defend counters from our midfield, and it would give Jet and the other 2 up top the space to operate without getting in each other’s way

Anytime we've played Holt and Bartley together at the holding 2 we've looked a lot more solid defensively. Sibbald is a creative player rather than that midfield general and that's why I think his playing time is being limited since we signed Holt. With Mullin, Forrest and Pittman behind Jet I don't see as much need for Sibbalds forward thinking play as much. Holt and Bartley alternate really well as to who drops and when with one of them often dropping into defence to collect the ball from the keeper, giving us an out ball as well as natural defensive cover.

Sibbald played well yesterday, glad to see him back in the mix, and he covered a lot of ground. What I’m saying is, to an extent it doesn’t matter who is in there, Sibbald, Bartley or Holt, Bartley. It’s a lot of space for two midfielders to cover. And when we lose possession in and around the opposition 18 yard box, we look susceptible to the counter because of it. We switch to a 4-3-3 and it would give us the ability to sit in the opposition halve for longer periods of time without looking so easy to counter. I’d like to see us try it. We’ve got good enough players that I believe we can be dominating other teams in the league, dominating possession, spending the majority of time in the opposition halve, and I think 4-3-3 with Bartley, Sibbald and Holt is the way to do it.

[Cptn Hooch]

Sibbald played well yesterday, glad to see him back in the mix, and he covered a lot of ground. What I’m saying is, to an extent it doesn’t matter who is in there, Sibbald, Bartley or Holt, Bartley. It’s a lot of space for two midfielders to cover. And when we lose possession in and around the opposition 18 yard box, we look susceptible to the counter because of it. We switch to a 4-3-3 and it would give us the ability to sit in the opposition halve for longer periods of time without looking so easy to counter. I’d like to see us try it. We’ve got good enough players that I believe we can be dominating other teams in the league, dominating possession, spending the majority of time in the opposition halve, and I think 4-3-3 with Bartley, Sibbald and Holt is the way to do it.

If you were playing the 4-3-3 I'd have Pittman ahead of sibbald in the 3. He's not a wide player as he's at his best bursting forward late into the box. I'd also have Mullin, Forrest and even Tiffoney ahead of sibbald on either flank as Sibbald lacks the pace for a wide player IMO. Playing the 4-2-3-1 I'd have Holt and Bartley ahead of Sibbald in the midfield. Sibbald is a great player and a fantastic option for rotating but hes more attack focused. I'd like to see him in the Pittman role behind the striker when Pitts was going through his dip in form but now that Pitts is back to his usual self I think sibbs will need to get used to reduced playing time.

[Guest Rscot]

6 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

15 minutes ago, Rscot said:

Sibbald played well yesterday, glad to see him back in the mix, and he covered a lot of ground. What I’m saying is, to an extent it doesn’t matter who is in there, Sibbald, Bartley or Holt, Bartley. It’s a lot of space for two midfielders to cover. And when we lose possession in and around the opposition 18 yard box, we look susceptible to the counter because of it. We switch to a 4-3-3 and it would give us the ability to sit in the opposition halve for longer periods of time without looking so easy to counter. I’d like to see us try it. We’ve got good enough players that I believe we can be dominating other teams in the league, dominating possession, spending the majority of time in the opposition halve, and I think 4-3-3 with Bartley, Sibbald and Holt is the way to do it.

If you were playing the 4-3-3 I'd have Pittman ahead of sibbald in the 3. He's not a wide player as he's at his best bursting forward late into the box. I'd also have Mullin, Forrest and even Tiffoney ahead of sibbald on either flank as Sibbald lacks the pace for a wide player IMO. Playing the 4-2-3-1 I'd have Holt and Bartley ahead of Sibbald in the midfield. Sibbald is a great player and a fantastic option for rotating but hes more attack focused. I'd like to see him in the Pittman role behind the striker when Pitts was going through his dip in form but now that Pitts is back to his usual self I think sibbs will need to get used to reduced playing time.

We’re getting width from our full backs, we don’t really play with wingers in a 4-2-3-1 and that wouldn’t change with a 4-3-3. Pitt’s is good at late runs into the box, but if you notice with Jet, he doesn’t always release the ball quickly, he has the ability to turn a defender, it makes a lot of Pitt’s runs obsolete. Pitt’s has the ability, technique, IQ and vision to be good on the left or right of Jet in a 4-3-3. And If we are looking for late runners into the box, Holt and occasionally Sibbald would fill that role nicely in my midfield 3

Edited October 11, 2020 by Rscot

[LiviLion]

38 minutes ago, Rscot said:

I’d like to see Pitt’s played wide right or left at some point too

But... why? That kind of thinking was pretty much why we ended up with Jordan White on the wing many moons ago. Or Efe at LWB.

He's an excellent attacking mid, no need to stick him out of position when we already have better players in those positions.

Edited October 11, 2020 by LiviLion

[Guest Rscot]

2 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

But... why? That form of thinking was pretty much why we ended up with Jordan White on the wing many moons ago. Or Efe at LWB.

He's an excellent attacking mid, no need to stick him out of position when we already have better players in those positions.

Because I think a 4-3-3 is the better formation for the players we have in the squad. And I think Pitt’s is good enough to compete with Forrest or Mullins either side of Jet. I admit  “wide” perhaps isn’t the best description of the position, we get width from the full backs. But in and around the 18 yard box either side of Jet, Pitt’s would be good. The fact that we play with high full backs is another reason why we need to play 4-3-3, to stop us being so susceptible to the counter.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Rscot

[LiviLion]

4 minutes ago, Rscot said:

Because I think a 4-3-3 is the better formation for the players we have in the squad. And I think Pitt’s is good enough to compete with Forrest or Mullins either side of Jet

But if we're playing a 4-3-3 surely you play Pittman as one of the midfield 3 and actually play wingers on the wing?

[Cptn Hooch]

But... why? That kind of thinking was pretty much why we ended up with Jordan White on the wing many moons ago. Or Efe at LWB.
He's an excellent attacking mid, no need to stick him out of position when we already have better players in those positions.

This!!! We tried to shoehorn players into the team at the start of the season and it was disastrous. We have a big squad that I assume is to allow us to deal with potential covid call offs etc...there will be plenty of rotation.

[ATLIS]

Why are we basing a hypothetical new formation off of a cup game against Alloa where a new signing getting his fitness up was in the same place as someone else?

[Guest Rscot]

1 minute ago, LiviLion said:

But if we're playing a 4-3-3 surely you play Pittman as one of the midfield 3 and actually play wingers on the wing?

We don’t play with wingers, our full backs provide the width. I think a midfield 3 of Bartley, Sibbald and Holt is the strongest midfield 3 we have in the squad and a midfield 3 which would be one of the best midfields in the league. 

[Guest Rscot]

1 minute ago, ATLIS said:

Why are we basing a hypothetical new formation off of a cup game against Alloa where a new signing getting his fitness up was in the same place as someone else?

It’s not just based on yesterday’s game, but now I’ve seen Jet and what he brings to the team, I think we would be better in switching to 4-3-3 while we have him. 

[Cptn Hooch]

We don’t play with wingers

Forrest and Mullin are wingers [emoji2371]

[Guest Rscot]

11 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

 

 

Forrest and Mullin are wingers

 

We get our width from the full backs, sure sometimes Forrest and Mullins switch out, but they’re  usually found within and at the edge of the 18 yard box, and I believe Pittman could play in Forrest or Mullins position. 4-3-3 is a better balanced formation for the players in our squad at this moment in time. We play 4-3-3 I think we’re capable of getting a result against anyone outside the Old Firm. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Rscot

[ATLIS]

18 minutes ago, Rscot said:

We get our width from the full backs, sure sometimes Forrest and Mullins switch out, but they’re  usually found within and at the edge of the 18 yard box, and I believe Pittman could play in Forrest or Mullins position. 4-3-3 is a better balanced formation for the players in our squad at this moment in time. We play 4-3-3 I think we’re capable of getting a result against anyone outside the Old Firm. 

Why would we drop Mullin or Forrest? Those two and Pittman are starters. Pittman is one of the best players at the club. 

We play with wingers, why play Pittman wide - it's the same thing Livi fans complain about all the time (playing guys out of position)

[Guest Rscot]

6 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Why would we drop Mullin or Forrest? Those two and Pittman are starters. Pittman is one of the best players at the club. 

We play with wingers, why play Pittman wide - it's the same thing Livi fans complain about all the time (playing guys out of position)

Because teams are gonna score against us on the counter, and because with 4-3-3 we’ll hold possession longer in the opposition half, we’ll dominate teams more and be less susceptible to the counter. Go read my previous posts, about full backs providing our width. If we stick with 4-2-3-1 we’ll be losing stupid goals on the counter, guaranteed. 4-3-3 is a better balanced formation for our players/squad. And I’d be happy to see Pittman instead of Mullin, in a 4-3-3, he’s more than capable of playing there as well, if not better then Mullin.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Rscot

[andylivi1]

Out with Hibs, Rangers and Celtic we have had more possession than the opposition this season in every other game. 
There has been a marked improvement with our ball retention this season and we are now looking far more threatening going forward than we have done in any of the two previous seasons in the top flight imo.

The formation we are playing suits the squad, they are comfortable in it, with Holt and Bartley we have excellent players with experience that know when to go and when to sit in that holding midfield role, with the addition of Forrest and now Mullin we have a great threat down both flanks along with the attacking full backs we have. 

We are losing more goals because we are getting more men forward hence why we are scoring and looking far more threatening. 

Sibbald is excellent and has been praised this season and barring the injury he picked up would probably still be in the side but Holt has came in and also done well and has made the shirt his own, it’s a great problem to have. 
 

[Guest Rscot]

57 minutes ago, andylivi1 said:

Out with Hibs, Rangers and Celtic we have had more possession than the opposition this season in every other game. 
There has been a marked improvement with our ball retention this season and we are now looking far more threatening going forward than we have done in any of the two previous seasons in the top flight imo.

The formation we are playing suits the squad, they are comfortable in it, with Holt and Bartley we have excellent players with experience that know when to go and when to sit in that holding midfield role, with the addition of Forrest and now Mullin we have a great threat down both flanks along with the attacking full backs we have. 

We are losing more goals because we are getting more men forward hence why we are scoring and looking far more threatening. 

Sibbald is excellent and has been praised this season and barring the injury he picked up would probably still be in the side but Holt has came in and also done well and has made the shirt his own, it’s a great problem to have. 
 

Yes we have too many people attacking, and we aren’t balanced enough. We have 2 full backs, 3 attacking midfielders and a Centre Forward all in and around the opposition 18 yard box, that leaves 4 players to cover the rest (5 if you include the keeper), of the width and length of the pitch. In a 4-3-3 the three midfielders stop us being so open to the counter, they allow us to hold the opposition in place while we recycle the ball around the opposition 18 yard box with our 2 full backs, and 3 forwards. I’d like to see us try it, I think we have good enough players too. 

[andylivi1]

2 hours ago, Rscot said:

Yes we have too many people attacking, and we aren’t balanced enough. We have 2 full backs, 3 attacking midfielders and a Centre Forward all in and around the opposition 18 yard box, that leaves 4 players to cover the rest (5 if you include the keeper), of the width and length of the pitch. In a 4-3-3 the three midfielders stop us being so open to the counter, they allow us to hold the opposition in place while we recycle the ball around the opposition 18 yard box with our 2 full backs, and 3 forwards. I’d like to see us try it, I think we have good enough players too. 

Think you are very much in the minority here but it would be boring if we all agreed with everything. 
I don’t see Gary Holt changing anytime soon given we’ve just won 4 on the spin but you never know. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Dykesy scoring another goal for Scotland tonight, kerching.

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by LIVIFOREVER

[Guest Rscot]

32 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Dykesy scoring another goal for Scotland tonight, kerching.

 

Brilliant finish, very happy for Dykes. 2 goals in 4 games

[Guest Rscot]

39 minutes ago, andylivi1 said:

Think you are very much in the minority here but it would be boring if we all agreed with everything. 
I don’t see Gary Holt changing anytime soon given we’ve just won 4 on the spin but you never know. 

Keep an eye out next time we play for opposition counter attacks, see how stretched we look. Also watch for when we are attacking, players in each other’s paths.