Livingston - all the threads merged

[ATLIS]

2 hours ago, Durnford said:

Two questions 

1. Why would Rankin have any involvement in the club as a creditor? Do any of the other creditors have an involvement; I doubt it.

2. The latest unabridged accounts show the clubs is in a relatively positive position. Certainly there are no declared debts of the amount described for either the latest accounts for Livingston 5; Opcco6; or Livingston Football Club Limited. Where did this debt of £700k come from and why isn't it declared?

Or is it yet more pony?

 

From what I gather it's historical loans etc.. All came from John Ward's twitter, I'll quote a few things below:

(On the removal of Ewing and Hogarth): "I voted for Neil and Brian"

(On Rankine and Beurskens) "Neil Rankine is owed 700k by the club. Like or loathe him it is by his grace the club is still there. Gordon (Beurskens) has taken up the legal issues the council create when the stadium house was sold. I was dealing with it before I left." "All utilities for the site have been getting billed to the club. The council made huge errors. The club were powering the stadium via generators at a cost of ten grand a month. Gordon found a path through that stopped the owners of the stadium house from bullying us." 

If John has control of the club via Opcco6 why/how has he been outvoted to remove Hogarth and Ewing? Hogarth tweeted cryptically "As I've found out to my cost, the people who fire the bullets aren't even capable of loading the gun". 

That 700k debt is there, but where 'there' is exactly is really confusing. Livingston 5 were ousted as majority shareholder by Opcco6 who now own 51-80% of the club but at least one of their directors was outvoted and one even removed from the club (John Ward, Robert Wilson and Brian Ewing are Oppco6's three directors). 

 

[EdinburghLivi]

There were long-term creditors of around £1m in the latest account to June 2018. I imagine that most of this will be to Neil Rankine.

The hope would be that in the accounts to June 2019, this number will have decreased.

Agree with John Ward's comments re Rankine hanging around. 

Oppco6 control 50-75% of the club as per companies house. Is there presumably a 2/3 / 75% threshold for being voted onto the board? Someone on the Trust would presumably be able to confirm this given they are minority shareholders.

Edited February 12, 2020 by EdinburghLivi

[Menga Bus]

Is Bartley suspended for rangers, and dykes for hibs? Or do the bookings reset after the winter break? 

[crispy]

All this chat of the boardroom stuff is a little unsettling(!). Ignorance is bliss!

[andylivi1]

8 minutes ago, Menga Bus said:

Is Bartley suspended for rangers, and dykes for hibs? Or do the bookings reset after the winter break? 

Believe the bookings reset after the break. 

[EdinburghLivi]

I couldn't find Bartley on the last two suspensions lists so both players may be in the clear.

[Durnford]

Bartley could probably be missing from the rangers game anyway after the ankle knock he received last night. 

[Cptn Hooch]

1 hour ago, Durnford said:

Bartley could probably be missing from the rangers game anyway after the ankle knock he received last night. 

Him making it to halftime gives me hope that it's not too bad. We lost a lot of our structure and cohesion when he went off. Genuinely think he's our most important player this season.

[crispy]

2 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

I couldn't find Bartley on the last two suspensions lists so both players may be in the clear.

Ooh, where does this live, please?

It was heartening to see Bartley make it to halftime but I find it hard to see how he could go from that hobble to fit in 2.5 days (at his age)? Looking forward to us giving it a right good go on Saturday.

Also, last season we were all crying out for a 15 goal man; what are the odds we get two at once?

[EdinburghLivi]

44 minutes ago, crispy said:

Ooh, where does this live, please?

It was heartening to see Bartley make it to halftime but I find it hard to see how he could go from that hobble to fit in 2.5 days (at his age)? Looking forward to us giving it a right good go on Saturday.

Also, last season we were all crying out for a 15 goal man; what are the odds we get two at once?

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/disciplinary/player-suspensions/

[crispy]

I hate my job so decided to pull together some descriptives for home vs. away records. If anyone can make sense of it let alone spot a trend then let me know, please  Also, if there are any additional numbers worth including then i'm all ears. Btw, I got near the end of this then realised there might be a +/-1 difference in H vs A game played but f*ck it. Season ending injuries etc. are beyond the scope of this table

Position is based on unevenness of H vs A points. Higher or Lower than rank is essentially are this club in a higher or lower position in the league than their avg home attendances would predict (as if that predicts anything!) and evenness doesn't mean a lot when you win most games like the OF do.

Headline: Most teams have a better home record than away record; St. Mirren, Livi, Killie, and County have it most skewed in favour of home.

 

PS. I blame the pitch.

PPS. I'll post this on the Plastic Pitches to go thread.

Edited February 13, 2020 by crispy

[crispy]

Interesting post from @Aim Here over on the ‘geographic scope of support’ thread. Livi are the nearest team for 170k people. Must be scope for support growth!

[LIVIFOREVER]

That's just Livingston too, tons of local towns close by, same old story though, most of them already support one of the big Glasgow & Edinburgh clubs.

[TheLad]

Up to the club to do more to get more support in.
Engagement with all local community clubs, schools, etc.

[crispy]

On 16/02/2020 at 08:30, TheLad said:

Up to the club to do more to get more support in.
Engagement with all local community clubs, schools, etc.

Yea, with smart moves like you describe it should improve.

 

Massive game on Saturday in Edinburgh. I think we'd all be agreement that a shoot out against our rivals for a top 6 place is a position we'd have loved to be in. If we could get 6-7 points from our remaining games before the split then I think that might be enough. Thoughts?

Edited February 17, 2020 by crispy

[Durnford]

On 14/02/2020 at 23:53, LIVIFOREVER said:

That's just Livingston too, tons of local towns close by, same old story though, most of them already support one of the big Glasgow & Edinburgh clubs.

Actually the 2011 census had the population of Livingston as 56,269. The figure quoted will presumably include all settlements where Livingston FC is the nearest club. Therefore I expect it to include the Calders; Bathgate; Broxburn etc. but not Linlithgow (Falkirk nearest); Newbridge (Hearts nearest) or Shotts (Motherwell nearest?). 

South-wise is a bit of a mystery though; in some ways we're almost clear to the boarders....

[spiggle]

45 minutes ago, crispy said:

Yea, with smart moves like you describe it should improve.

 

Massive game on Saturday in Edinburgh. I think we'd all be agreement that a shoot out against our rivals for a top 6 place is a position we'd have loved to be in. If we could get 6-7 points from our remaining games before the split then I think that might be enough. Thoughts?

My thoughts are we should be shooting for 3rd. Minimum of top 6.

Points predicted:-

Hibs (A) - 1 point - We've been unlucky to get a win there under Holt and Hibs are much better at home than they are away

Celtic (H) - 0 point - We've got a decent record at home and against Lennon's Celtic but they are flying atm, but a rested Livi and a tired Celtic could give us all 3 but I'd settle for a point, realistically we are going to get nothing though.

St Johnstone (A) - 3 points. If we are to challenge for 3rd, this is the sort of game we need to pick point up from, especially against a stuttering St Johnstone.

Hearts (H) - 3 points - Hearts ship a lot of goals, we don't at home. I expect another good win here against a Championship bound Hearts.

Aberdeen (H) - 1 point - We have a shocking record against this mob. If we want third we have to take something from this mob.

Kilmarnock (A) - 3 points - another stuttering team who are just clinging onto hope for top 6. I just hope we are well clear of them by the time the split comes. I fancy us to grab all 3 here.

Total projected -  11 points.

Although I reckon we should be ok for top 6 if we get 7 points. Especially if they are against Kilmarnock, Hibs and St Johnstone.

[Afro]

My thoughts are we should be shooting for 3rd. Minimum of top 6.
Points predicted:-
Hibs (A) - 1 point - We've been unlucky to get a win there under Holt and Hibs are much better at home than they are away
Celtic (H) - 0 point - We've got a decent record at home and against Lennon's Celtic but they are flying atm, but a rested Livi and a tired Celtic could give us all 3 but I'd settle for a point, realistically we are going to get nothing though.
St Johnstone (A) - 3 points. If we are to challenge for 3rd, this is the sort of game we need to pick point up from, especially against a stuttering St Johnstone.
Hearts (H) - 3 points - Hearts ship a lot of goals, we don't at home. I expect another good win here against a Championship bound Hearts.
Aberdeen (H) - 1 point - We have a shocking record against this mob. If we want third we have to take something from this mob.
Kilmarnock (A) - 3 points - another stuttering team who are just clinging onto hope for top 6. I just hope we are well clear of them by the time the split comes. I fancy us to grab all 3 here.
Total projected -  11 points.
Although I reckon we should be ok for top 6 if we get 7 points. Especially if they are against Kilmarnock, Hibs and St Johnstone.

I admire your optimism. I’d personally go for 5 points - a win against Hearts and draws against St Johnstone and Aberdeen. Whether that would be enough for Top 6, I’m not so sure.

I’d fancy Killie to pick up 10 points, looking at their remaining fixtures, meaning a GD swing of 10 would seal it for them. Doable, but if we can somehow bury our piss poor away form at least once we’ll be in with a great shout.

[Widge]

Just out of curiosity, how are St Johnstone stuttering? We’ve lost 2 of our last 14 games!

[LIVIFOREVER]

58 minutes ago, Widge said:

Just out of curiosity, how are St Johnstone stuttering? We’ve lost 2 of our last 14 games!

Yeah Killie and St Johnstone have picked up in form, despite a couple of defeats ours is still the 2nd best though, don't think you or Killie will catch us.

Pie and Bovril 

@pieandbov 6h

 

Premiership Form Guide Points Last Six

Celtic 18 Livingston 12 Hibernian 11 St.Johnstone 11 Rangers 10 Kilmarnock 9 St.Mirren 6 Hearts 6 Aberdeen 5 Motherwell 4 Ross County 4 Hamilton 2

Id take Spiggle's optimistic prediction against Afro's pessimistic ones, and say we'll prob be somewhere in between. Don't think Killie will get 10 points from their games either though, can't see them catching us; They've got tough games against Celtic, Aberdeen & Motherwell, but even the 'easier' games Accies away & St Mirren home could be tricky, both are fighting for survival and just the sort of unexpected result Accies could get the 3 points from. Their final game before the split is Livi at Rugby Park, really hoping we're at least 4 above them going into that one.

This weekend's results could help make things a bit easier to predict, or harder if it all goes St Johnstone's way.

Edited February 17, 2020 by LIVIFOREVER