The Wrestling Thread

[The Hero of the Day]

Whats this important TNA news we were supposed to be getting?

Dunno, saw it over on UKFF...

http://ukff.com/index.php?showtopic=124673

[#Gary]

John Cena carried The Great Khali to a good match at ONS so he simply must be good. Cena's only problem is his shite patter and the way he's booked as superman.

[DomDom]

John Cena carried The Great Khali to a good match at ONS so he simply must be good. Cena's only problem is his shite patter and the way he's booked as superman.

His other problem is execution of moves which is as sloppy as f**k.

His positives are his timing which is second to NOBODY in wrestling at the moment, his selling which is normally great outside of the superman stuff and is one of the reasons so many people get sucked into his matches, his ability to be able to actually tell a story in his matches, and generally the actual important stuff.

[The Hero of the Day]

Shane McMahon was decent in the ring, especially for someone who had as many matches as he did. Bobby Lashley has had one really good match in his entire career. Funnily enough, that match was with John Cena. Go figure.

If you have lots of good matches, which John Cena has had, then you're good in the ring.

He could sell and that's about it. His matches consisted of him getting his arsed kicked up and down the arena with a couple of offensive moves here and there. Name decent Shane O Mac fight that didn't involved a match stipulation. "Go figure"

[DomDom]

He could sell and that's about it. His matches consisted of him getting his arsed kicked up and down the arena with a couple of offensive moves here and there. Name decent Shane O Mac fight that didn't involved a match stipulation. "Go figure"

Plenty of guys had their weaknesses hidden by gimmicks and were still shit, and they were actual wrestlers. Look at The Dudleys in ECW before WWE got a hold of them and taught them how to actually wrestle.

Shane McMahon had plenty going for him, and just because he wasn't involved in matches with non-stips, doesn't mean that he couldn't be good in them. T'is a shame that he became a fat useless fud before they gave him such a match.

I suppose if it counts, you could say Shane and RVD vs. Rock and Jericho, which was an absolute corker of a tag match.

[Djayict]

Shane McMahon v Kurt angle at king of the ring 2001 was a great match

[KilliePie]

Johnny Curtis won NXT. He's pish, expect to see him get his tag title shot with R Truth on an episode of SmackDown or something, lose, and then never see him again.

Derrick Bateman was the only promising talent in NXT and he didn't even make the final!

Whit!!! How the f**k did Brodus Clay not win that, he was class. Curtis didnt really do anything of note the entire series. Been loving NXT this series.

[DA Baracus]

Impact was absolutely dire last night.

I love Ric Flair as I'm sure the regulars on this thread know but him blading was cringeworthy. They advertise that match and then don't put it on, pretty poor form there.

I don't rate Hernandez and seeing him getting this push is annoying me.

If Gunner and Murphy win the tag titles I'll cry. T

hey are over-using security now, maybe it's the new ref bump or backstage brawl.

No Jeff Hardy on the show at all, anyone know if there's a story behind that?

Why did Crimson face Magnus? Isn't Magnus aligned with Williams now and so a face?

The whole Immortal versus everyone thing is just a massive clusterfuck now.

The 3 3 11 thing was excellent though I thought.

EDIT: Tommy Dreamer can f**k off too.

In his recent column in FSM, Magnus basically said that he hasn't been featured much recently because they're waiting on Wolfe getting back from injury and plan to go with them when he does.

[DomDom]

There's a good chance that Wolfe may not return at all. He has some pretty serious health issues, but it's not exactly clear what they are.

[The Hero of the Day]

Plenty of guys had their weaknesses hidden by gimmicks and were still shit, and they were actual wrestlers. Look at The Dudleys in ECW before WWE got a hold of them and taught them how to actually wrestle.

Shane McMahon had plenty going for him, and just because he wasn't involved in matches with non-stips, doesn't mean that he couldn't be good in them. T'is a shame that he became a fat useless fud before they gave him such a match.

I suppose if it counts, you could say Shane and RVD vs. Rock and Jericho, which was an absolute corker of a tag match.

So how can you say Cena is good in the ring but then turn around and say His execution is terrible, which I agree it is. That twist slam he does right before the "You cant see me" nonsense being the worst of all.

I'm not saying Shane wasn't talented he just wasn't a good in ring performer. Thats a tag match which takes away from the point I was making about MacMahon.

Shane McMahon v Kurt angle at king of the ring 2001 was a great match

Was a street fight...

[DomDom]

So how can you say Cena is good in the ring but then turn around and say His execution is terrible, which I agree it is. That twist slam he does right before the "You cant see me" nonsense being the worst of all.

I draw the line at having good matches when it comes to deciding if someone is good in the ring or not. Cena might be sloppy, but he isn't botch happy, and that's pretty much all that REALLY matters. The only time he does a move and it REALLY bugs me is his punches.

[The Hero of the Day]

I draw the line at having good matches when it comes to deciding if someone is good in the ring or not. Cena might be sloppy, but he isn't botch happy, and that's pretty much all that REALLY matters. The only time he does a move and it REALLY bugs me is his punches.

Sorry but if your sloppy and have a limited moveset like Cena does, then your not good enough in the ring. I'm not doubting his charisma or anything like that, infact the guy has bags of it but Cena is not a good wrestler, he is however a good performer.

Edited March 3, 2011 by The Hero of the Day

[DomDom]

Sorry but if your sloppy and have a limited moveset like Cena does, then your not good enough in the ring. I'm not doubting his charisma or anything like that, infact the guy has bags of it but Cena is not a good wrestler, he is however a good performer.

Limited moveset? We can now add Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race, Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi and many more to the list of not good enough in the ring then.

As for execution, The Rock is widely seen as being GREAT in the ring, yet look at the horrific execution of the majority of his moves. Cena's execution is good enough because he can still do the moves so that they look right, but it doesn't mean they aren't sloppy.

I actually missed the question about good matches he's had...

Every match he had on PPV with Edge was great. The match at Summerslam 2006 in particular was great fun. The 2005 fued with Jericho. The fued with Umaga. The 2003/2004 fued with Kurt Angle. Every match he has had with Triple H, whether it be on RAW or PPV. The match with The Undertaker when he was the heel rapper in 2003. JBL I Quit Match. Bobby Lashley in 2007 who had no right to have a match that good. Ever. Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand 2006. Shawn Michaels on RAW in the UK. Sheamus in the steel cage at Money in the Bank. The PPV matches with Batista up to the I Quit Match which was horrendous.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure I could find more.

[The Hero of the Day]

Maybe you should start double reading your post before you reply. I said Cena is poor because he has a limited moveset AND his execution of this limited moveset absolutely sucks. None of the names you mention above were poor at performing there trademark moves. Cena on the other hand is, I think your getting mixed up with trademark moves though.

[DomDom]

The guys I mentioned did almost NOTHING outside of their trademark moves. Limited movesets mean nothing and shouldn't ever be brought into a debate deciding if anyone is any good.

What makes the guys I mentioned great has nothing to do with how they do their moves. It's everything else that surrounds the moves. It's the timing, it's the selling, the ability to tell a story. These are the important factors of what makes a good wrestler, and what seperates the guys in the major leagues from the guys in the indies.

[The Hero of the Day]

Limited moveset? We can now add Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race, Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi and many more to the list of not good enough in the ring then.

As for execution, The Rock is widely seen as being GREAT in the ring, yet look at the horrific execution of the majority of his moves. Cena's execution is good enough because he can still do the moves so that they look right, but it doesn't mean they aren't sloppy.

I actually missed the question about good matches he's had...

Every match he had on PPV with Edge was great. The match at Summerslam 2006 in particular was great fun. The 2005 fued with Jericho. The fued with Umaga. The 2003/2004 fued with Kurt Angle. Every match he has had with Triple H, whether it be on RAW or PPV. The match with The Undertaker when he was the heel rapper in 2003. JBL I Quit Match. Bobby Lashley in 2007 who had no right to have a match that good. Ever. Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand 2006. Shawn Michaels on RAW in the UK. Sheamus in the steel cage at Money in the Bank. The PPV matches with Batista up to the I Quit Match which was horrendous.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure I could find more.

With the exception of that horrific belly to belly overheard throw, the Rock was good at performing his trademark moves and was not a sloppy in ring performer.

I've not got the time of day to watch through all those matches like you do and I'm not going to take your word for it because you've probably just listed every match he's had this side of the millenium.

[DomDom]

The Rock's floatover DDT was pretty bad. His Sharpshooter was awful. What The Rock had was the snap that he added to his moves. Didn't make the moves any less sloppy, but made them look impactful. Triple H used to have that same snap to his execution a few years back.

I'm not going to take your word for it because you've probably just listed every match he's had this side of the millenium.

I didn't list the shite fued he had with Kurt Angle at the end of 2005 though. Nor did I include the shite with Randy Orton at Summerslam 2007 ( although as I suspected, I did forget some, most notably the matches with Orton at an earlier Summerslam and their I Quit Match ), nor did I mention the shit fued he had with Sheamus initially, the crap Wrestlemania match with Shawn Michaels, the DREADFUL Mania match with JBL, the poor match with Umaga at New Year's Revolution and much much more.

[The Hero of the Day]

The guys I mentioned did almost NOTHING outside of their trademark moves. Limited movesets mean nothing and shouldn't ever be brought into a debate deciding if anyone is any good.

What makes the guys I mentioned great has nothing to do with how they do their moves. It's everything else that surrounds the moves. It's the timing, it's the selling, the ability to tell a story. These are the important factors of what makes a good wrestler, and what seperates the guys in the major leagues from the guys in the indies.

Your missing the point. I said Cena's moves were limited and even at that the execution of sed moves are terrible. What you've taken from that is that if you have a limited move set then your crap in the ring. Thats not what I said, right or wrong?

Your going of on a tangent here, I'm only talking about Shane MacMahon, I'm not evaluating anyone else. End of the day, Shane was not a good in ring performer.

....Or the fact that it's very hard to get to the top level of the business.

[The Hero of the Day]

The Rock's floatover DDT was pretty bad. His Sharpshooter was awful. What The Rock had was the snap that he added to his moves. Didn't make the moves any less sloppy, but made them look impactful. Triple H used to have that same snap to his execution a few years back.

I didn't list the shite fued he had with Kurt Angle at the end of 2005 though. Nor did I include the shite with Randy Orton at Summerslam 2007 ( although as I suspected, I did forget some, most notably the matches with Orton at an earlier Summerslam and their I Quit Match ), nor did I mention the shit fued he had with Sheamus initially, the crap Wrestlemania match with Shawn Michaels, the DREADFUL Mania match with JBL, the poor match with Umaga at New Year's Revolution and much much more.

There was nothing wrong with the Rocks sharpshooter at all. You've only listed 2 moves, 1 of which I don't agree with but you said "most of his moveset", not the case is it.

As I've said above I'm only talking about Shane, not Cena, because it's been done to death on forums on the internet.

[The Hero of the Day]

Every match he had on PPV with Edge was great. The match at Summerslam 2006 in particular was great fun. The 2005 fued with Jericho. The fued with Umaga. The 2003/2004 fued with Kurt Angle. Every match he has had with Triple H, whether it be on RAW or PPV. The match with The Undertaker when he was the heel rapper in 2003. JBL I Quit Match. Bobby Lashley in 2007 who had no right to have a match that good. Ever. Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand 2006. Shawn Michaels on RAW in the UK. Sheamus in the steel cage at Money in the Bank. The PPV matches with Batista up to the I Quit Match which was horrendous.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure I could find more.

Most of them are carry jobs anyway.