Mark Connolly Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, Speroni*1 said: I was watching some WhatCulture/Cultaholic/some other random wrestling youtube video the other day and they were on about how Vince McMahon was considering Monday Night WCW and Smackdown being the two entities with Shane legitmately running WCW (With Vince's help). A terrible Buff Bagwell vs Booker T match apparently put the kibosh to that .(And a host of other reasons undoubtedly) Whilst I don't think that'd necessarily have worked, I do think it's criminal that Raw and Smackdown have never felt like separate entities even during the brand split. Yeah, there have been subtle differences at times but largely just a continuation of the same style of show. NXT has proven that certain fans tune into different styles of wrestling products. I know the PG debate is largely pointless if there is no good storylines, but Vince has proven he can deliver variety in his time, I just wish he made a full fledged effort to differentiate the shows rather than his half arsed attempts. Aim Smackdown for a completely different audience would've been a big risk but at a time when there was zero competition, this could've changed the face of the wrestling landscape. Aim one show for wrestling purists (NXT), another for kids and merchandise buyers (Smackdown) and the other for the 'drama' lovers (Raw). It'd never catch on though. Sorry for the ramble! IIRC the Bagwell-Booker match was the main event on Raw, in a town that WCW had only ever been to about twice, and was a massive WWE town. Had they done it the following week instead, when they were due to be in Atlanta, it might have been different. Almost as if someone planned it to be shite... WWE actually did a reasonable article on it on their own website - https://www.wwe.com/classics/raw-is-wcw-the-most-awkward-match-ever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 58 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: IIRC the Bagwell-Booker match was the main event on Raw, in a town that WCW had only ever been to about twice, and was a massive WWE town. Had they done it the following week instead, when they were due to be in Atlanta, it might have been different. Almost as if someone planned it to be shite... WWE actually did a reasonable article on it on their own website - https://www.wwe.com/classics/raw-is-wcw-the-most-awkward-match-ever I never bought that a single match was the reason they cancelled it all. Like you mention, it seems very much like it was planned to fail (Buff fucking Bagwell?!). Plus WWF had conditioned fans for years to think of anything WCW related as absolutely shite and not worth any time. Going back to Speroni's point about shows being different, I think for the first couple of years of the brand split Smackdown and Raw did feel noticeably different. Smackdown had far more emphasis on the in ring stuff at thay time and overall was a far better show. They massive diluted that of course and the shows quickly became totally interchangeable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Am I right in saying that the commentators were sh*tting all over the fact that WCW was taking over a WWF television show at that moment? I have the feeling I've seen that recently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, Stellaboz said: Am I right in saying that the commentators were sh*tting all over the fact that WCW was taking over a WWF television show at that moment? I have the feeling I've seen that recently. The actual match had Arn Anderson and Scott Hudson as a commentary team: Full match but poorer quality: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 As in before they "switched" to WCW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Speroni*1 said: The actual match had Arn Anderson and Scott Hudson as a commentary team: Full match but poorer quality: I mean, aside from the fact it was just a bunch of moves with no actual story behind the match - was it really that bad? The crowd wanted to shit on it right from the off but it's not like it was boring or mega sloppy.Both guys worked it at a decent pace and actually did moves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 Moves are nothing without story. It was doomed from the start and 100% made that way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWAClyde Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 I heard it was because USA didn't want to move away from the RAW branded show on their network as it was such a ratings hit and Vince didn't want Nitro to be on a Thursday in the SmackDown slot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 WCW in WWE was doomed from the start. They needed the big hitters from the get go, but they were all rightly sitting at home on their cushy AOL contracts. Instead it was mostly midcarders who were always booked to look inferior to the WWF guys. I think only Booker T came out of the initial Invasion looking anything like a star. Just imagine the pop if the likes of Goldberg, Hogan, Sting and Steiner had shown up in 2001. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 The first 3 WCW wrestlers to appear on WWF TV were Lance Storm, Hugh Morrus and Booker T. As good as the 3 of them were as wrestlers, it's not exactly Hall, Nash and Hogan in terms of impact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 The argument of course, that still get talked about nearly 20 years later, is that Vince could easily have bought out the AOL contracts and got the Nash's, the Sting's, the Hogan's, the Flair's in 2001. But like others have said, he chose not to so he would have to just have WCW mid carders like Storm and Bagwell do the invasion, and make WCW look like the inferior product. Quite daft IMO, what he should've done was paid out the contracts, and just had them debut steadily over a month or so. No need for a 'WCW' segment on Raw, or indeed an actual WCW weekly show to add to Raw or Smackdown. Just do it normally like any debuting wrestler when they come to the promotion. Then the whole Invasion thing over the 2001 would've been brilliant, instead of mainly being shite. Not forgetting you didn't have HHH or HBK due to injury either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 The biggest issue was Vince McMahon. Even as recently as 5 years ago he was still crying about WCW when he made the Sting vs HHH match yet another retread of the 'Monday Night Wars'. Vince's fragile, fragile ego would never allow for the Invasion to be a success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEMSFC Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Drew Gulak has been released at the end of his contract apparently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 That’s a bit of a shocker, especially as he’s been prominent on TV recently. Free to work anywhere else immediately apparently. Wonder where he’ll go? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieStevenson Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Drew Gulak has been great. This is a poor decision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifeArab Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Was he no meant to be in a match v Daniel Bryan on Friday night for the IC tournament? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 His match with Bryan on Friday's Smackdown was excellent. One of the few matches in the empty arena that makes you forget about how silent everything is. It's strange that they didn't do any kind of angle to write him of TV though. It's a shite timing for the likes of Gulak and Mysterio with their contracts expiring now, considering Vince was throwing money at Shelton Benjamin and MIke Kanelis is the very recent past. Gulak should have no problem finding work though. He would be great in New Japan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifeArab Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 His match with Bryan on Friday's Smackdown was excellent. One of the few matches in the empty arena that makes you forget about how silent everything is. It's strange that they didn't do any kind of angle to write him of TV though. It's a shite timing for the likes of Gulak and Mysterio with their contracts expiring now, considering Vince was throwing money at Shelton Benjamin and MIke Kanelis is the very recent past. Gulak should have no problem finding work though. He would be great in New Japan.I’ve got Smackdown taped, I’ll catch up with It. Surprised Drew didn’t want to stay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, FifeArab said: I’ve got Smackdown taped, I’ll catch up with It. Surprised Drew didn’t want to stay. No spoilers, but Bryan vs Gulak is a tad better than Elias vs Corbin. I don't think Gulak will be going to AEW based on this interview with Cody from 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Very sad news, Shad Gaspard is missing after being swept away at the beach yesterday. https://411mania.com/wrestling/shad-gaspard-missing-after-getting-caught-in-rip-tide-at-the-beach/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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