Albus Bulbasaur

I'm a bit lost at this part? On the second part, it doesn't matter why people vote for who they do, you can't decide something is single issue for other people. If Labour or Tories stand candidates and even one of them wants to talk about anything other than the constitution that's this notion burst. People have always voted SNP without wanting Indy that wouldn't change just because Nicola says so.

They would need to change the mind of Westminster in this scenario. That's where the power lies. Get Labour or the Tories or whoever else to promise a Scottish referendum and get elected. I think some people seriously overestimate what Holyrood and devolution actually means.

SC might show that devolved governments don't have the power to do so which is what has been argued to death since the start of devolution. I've said this at every turn where people believe voting SNP is somehow going to give them powers above their station. I'd agree it would be best for all countries in the UK to have clear framework for what would need to happen for Independence so without that i can understand such grievances. Unfortunately for you I believe this is a minority grievance and if it was genuinely at least half the country bothered by it then I'd imagine you'd see movement on the issue.

Lisa Nandy hitting the nail on the head as per usual.

Oh aye if course I get that but imo it's just bluster, especially after the event of an unfavourable SC ruling. We'd still be in the same boat.

I don't think anyone could reasonably argue with certainty that SNP winning a GE would mean Scotland wants independence even if the SNP try and frame it that way, like they've done previously multiple times.

They're not indefinitely refusing one though, they've granted one less than a decade ago and they've repeatedly pointed to reasons why they don't feel one needs to be granted at this time whilst acknowledging one may be granted in the future. The SC ruling shall certainly be interesting. I'm sure they'll adequately explain the legality behind their decision. Out of curiosity what do you think is the appropriate mechanism for Wales to gain independence?

25 greenies.

I've answered your question... They're not "simply refusing" to grant one as they don't feel like their is a clear mandate for one, this is what will be contested in court. This argument would hold weight if the Tories hadn't granted one less than a decade ago...

Evidently not.

They can take the democratic route of getting a section 30 granted like they did in 2014....

It is an answer as to the democratic process, acquiring a section 30 is part of that process. Unilaterally declaring a GE as an Indy ref is not the answer to the democratic process. Well considering they've already accepted one less than a decade ago and have said they would do in the future I don't think framing anything as "refuse under any circumstance" is accurate. The democratic route is acquiring a section 30, usually by political pressure, I'd say there's a few ways they can show this going forward, presently the fact pro Indy parties get under 50% of the vote is an area they would probably need to improve on.

The question has been answered multiple times. In fact Nicola herself mentioned it multiple times yesterday, you need a section 30 from Westminster unless the SC judges otherwise.

The SNP saying it's a single issue GE doesn't change anything about the mandate, mechanisms or impact of the GE. They'd be exactly where they are now. They pretty much campaign every GE on this single issue anyway. Nicola says so isn't going to unlock this issue, it's empty rhetoric, why would other MPs play along with this ridiculous game. Local MPs will try and win their seats and promote local issues and vote winning subjects no matter what Nicola tells her worshippers.

I was once tripping out my skull on magic mushrooms when a pigeon flew straight into a wall right in front of me.

You guys are easily bought. "Something" being the fact that the SNP will take part in a GE like they regularly do.

As a Unionist I know people would love it if I was raging or losing the head and admittedly I might be if I was in anyway worried we would lose the argument but right now I'm comfortable and enjoying this false dawn. Let's skip this foreplay segment and get straight into the gritty detail which the SNP so far don't seem to want to do. They're good at throwing red meat and endorsing loonies but when it comes to the forthcoming debate they've produced nothing of value. We are still in the same 2014 debate position. After a decade you might have expected slightly more...

Did I accidentally venture onto reddit? This is absolute neckbeard fan fiction.

Yeah Nicola Sturgeon on the telly demanding a referendum as she's done for the past decade is really not what anyone without an entrenched position would consider out manoeuvring the opposition. If her side wins the courts battle then she would have done so but right now it's just posture. The main blockage in the Indy vision is the inability to discuss or improve any of the arguments that lost them the last referendum. As I said before it all so far seems very Brexity and "trust me" politics without a slither of a convincing argument being presented. The lack of confidence in the willingness to present a positive Indy case is extremely telling right now.

Don't know why anyone is red dotting this. When people are in winning positions they don't hand out concessions and downplay their own hand. If this was a confident strategy they wouldn't have already dropped the spoiler that when they lose the SC battle they'll blame it on Westminster and have another GE advocating unrealistic propositions. I don't know how people keep buying these magic beans. If the courts rule Westminster has the authority over holding proper referendums then no matter what happens in the GE if the SNP were to get a majority they would still need Westminster authority. Neither Keir or whoever is leading the Tories would back this especially after a court ruling. This was effectively another publicity stunt where the end product seemed to be "If Westminster doesn't give the go ahead we'll continue to blame them for our own inadequacies as we've been doing for the past 10 years" Perhaps a bold unpopular opinion but if the above happens and the SNP fight the next GE solely on Indy they'll lose seats.

He's a bit too Brexity for me. I'm happy with Starmer paving the way for the irrepressible Lisa Nandy. Either that or Andy Burnham and Wes Streeting have a square go to decide.

For clarity I 100% meant the once in a generation line, that Tory is particularly detestable and dim.

Would only take him a 10 seconds google search tbf. This was before my lifetime but I would disagree with the idea. Can't see it happening anyway.

I think if the SNP had a better record in government they'd build support and should focus on winning the arguments they lost in 2014. Basically their only viable option is a slow burn fact based approach rather than some emotional blame game approach. Proposing how to have a referendum should come after they're comfortably winning the Indy argument whereas right now they're hiding the detail in a Brexity way.