Albus Bulbasaur

Aye apparantly he repeated it a few times so he must have got a bit carried away. Sensible for them to retract it though.

Lmao no it wouldn't no matter how you and Nicola try and spin a general election. We would be voting for MPs to serve us at Westminster. What's it going to say on your ballot? I see John Swinney has said that a majority of seats would lead to starting the process (whatever that actually means) so that's 30MPs needed. It's actually kinda sad to see them going out like this.

Why do people that want to enact a massive change on society believe that the people that are content are the ones who need to do the convincing? The argument for staying in the Union can be a shrug of the shoulders until the Yes side actually come up with anything substantial that amounts to more than birthday caird pish. I honestly find it remarkable they're trying to wing it so badly, they've clearly taken lessons from Brexit. Rather than having answers for sincere massive questions they're just going to go off of trying to appeal to the flag shaggers and inward looking da types.

I doubt there will actually be one but as I'm not fuelled by insecure identity issues I'll vote No for the second time of asking.

Bruh this isn't Final Destination ffs.

Not something I've put too much thought to, as I have said it was an analogy regarding why you shouldn't take risks due to over confidence. For goodwill before I enjoy the rest of my day offline if option A is to risk something and option B is to avoid the risk then at that moment option B is safer. Of course long term this option B safe path could lead to your bloody death later down the line but at the immediate point of choosing not to jump you're safer than you are mid jump. I'm going to avoid analogies from now on.

Aye but there's blood thirsty great white sharks circling the boat and you've got a gash on your leg whereas Sir Keir is on the horizon furiously rowing towards you.

It's an election bid because as Nicola said herself these are the terms she will fight the general election over if she fails at getting a S30. If she was confident she'd get a section 30 or win the SC case she wouldn't already be setting out their stall for the next GE. She's understandably setting up her position to fight yet another GE after failing to have an actual referendum. At best it's contingency planning.

Sure seemed like it considering you didn't really combat anything I said rather just added more detail to the issue. What we're doing now is a bit boring, like the other day when you misread a post and then failed to reply when shown what you had been mistaken with. For clarity my analogy is regarding the idea you would take a risk when you don't have to. Sure you can argue it's naive long term but in my analogy the "safe path" is still at the moment safer than a risky jump.

I disagree with your framing tbh. I'm content with the situation and believe there's a democratic route through the democratically elected MPs at Westminster. I think we probably agree people perhaps should care more but the general public probably care more about Love Island than flights to Rwanda so I can't say I'm surprised every day normal people aren't fussed about the finer details of parliament and sovereignty. I've said previously campaigns regarding PR and movements pointing out particular grievances in the system as a slow burn approach is more palatable than the emotionally lead screeching grievance approach we have at the moment.

Thats a long way of saying you agree with my post.

You lacking the testicular fortitude to quote me and then try and show my words as out of context does you no favours. The SNP saying that voting for them is a definitive way to enact Independence is above its station as they evidently don't have the power. Feel free to quote this if they win the SC case.

My analogy was regarding Unionists choosing to have a referendum just because they're confident they'd win, it wasn't aimed at Indy supporters who are frustrated.

The idea is flawed and unrealistic imo. I can't see Labour or Tories agreeing to this idea. I live in the Borders so UDI would be hilarious imo. Oh no you're wrong I fully grasp what your problem is with the constitutional set up. I understand your frustrations and why you think more people should be concerned by this, as addressed previously it's quite evident that a lot of people are indifferent and this big perceived injustice just isn't really one the majority of Scottish people feel bothered about on a day to day basis. Having a referendum just because you're confident you'd win would be foolish. You don't jump across a gorge with a death drop just because you're confident you would make it if there's a longer safe path around the side.

The grand plan is to have a General Election and moan when WM doesn't grant a section 30. When do i start quaking in my boots? I'm not missing any point, WM will have a multitude of reasons which they've said numerous times, "once in a generation" seems to be one of their main ones, they've recently been citing pro Indy parties elected to Holyrood and the way the vote splits in percentages as another. I sincerely think this particular argument would have weight and support if they hadn't literally granted the powers less than a decade ago. That makes it very difficult to argue that WM are being unreasonable to most people. Can agree somewhat on your last part though. That's hardly the fault of Unionists though.

This is also what we've been saying since 2014. You can democratically get WM to grant one right enough. Funny how some people don't mind the SNP lying about this continously to gain votes though. That's where the Alba Das have my sympathy.

Good luck with that! Plan 1 is ask (we know the answer is no) Plan 2 is courts (we don't know) Plan 3 is GE (that's not a plan)

And as it stands I don't think that argument engages or turns on enough people. Perhaps it will in the future. I personally think losing the SC battle would be catastrophic for Indy and I think the following GE would result in them losing seats.

I'd count that as movement, stating that you're going to SC over the issue is what's already been the state of play for the past 6 or 7 years... having a further GE after SC ruling against you is barely "movement" unless you're a sloth.

Well I have actually answered this already a few pages back. In that situation you would need to convince WM directly to do so. There would not be the power at Holyrood to call a referendum, as people have stated for a long time now. You're getting wound up I don't have the answer to something Nicola or any Indy supporter has themselves. She explained this yesterday. I understand this is enough of a reason for some people to be annoyed and feel grievance right enough.

Well yeah, also backed up by previous referendums, polling and the amount of Scots that bother to vote for Indy supporting parties. Yeah you're right on that second part, pretty obvious though, if I supported Scottish Independence I'd be just as riled up as the rest of you guys. I can see why people feel like it's serious to them and why you may believe more people should care though.

Of course, I grasped it as soon as it was said. They would still need a section 30 though and what I think you might not be grasping is this GE would be of no difference technically speaking than any of the ones we've had previously no matter what Nicola says. Can you seriously see a scenario where SNP lose the SC and then win a GE and try and take Scotland out of the UK?

I'm not answering one question to your satisfaction... I've answered plenty of questions over the last few pages and asked plenty and had no issue. Unsurprisingly you're the outlier here. Perhaps you need to dumb down your question for me to understand you great big brained debate lord you.

I see that it's serious to a minority group of the population. If enough people cared or wanted Indy then we'd see more movement on the issue, as it stands people aren't that fussed, what I personally think is neither here nor there really, I've already expressed i understand and I'm sympathetic towards those that do support Indy. Especially people that didn't have a say in 2014, the Yes campaign should've answered the questions that lost them the referendum a lot better.

Certainly managing with everyone else fine. Probably says something more about your style of debating or discussing issues with people and your need to try and be superior online champ.