Satoshi

Yes, but the science is clear that for under 25s their pre frontal cortex is not fully developed and that their age should be a factor in sentencing decisions. It's not a get out of jail free card. Trust the science not the anecdotes. And if the scientific evidence changes or matures, adapt the policy to fit it. Give me science over tabloid scorn any day.

It has been widely reported as a botched kidnapping. Not that the Saudi regime doesn't kill people - it absolutely does. Inside and outside Saudi Arabia. And it kidnaps dissidents too. It they wanted to kill Khassoghi they wouldn't have done it the way they did (ridiculously badly and publicly). There's many podcasts on this - listen to the conflicted episode on it if you don't believe me. His family is still in Saudi Arabia - widely reported they took blood money for the killing (nothing wrong with that from their side). I'm not arguing the Saudi regime is great - of course it isn't. Lots of bad things happen there, including this bizarre football vanity project. There is inequality and an all powerful monarch - many of the worst things go unreported. It's absolutely not the responsibility of people who work there. The western media attitude to the middle east is patronising and deeply out of date. The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, by the UK and US in the last 20 years, have killed far more people than Saudi Arabia ever had (including many journalists incidentally). The US is possibly the world leader in targeted assassinations and frequently kidnaps and extradited prisoners to black sites to be held and tortured without trial. Yet (correctly) no criticism of Messi moving to inter Miami. So it's not other countries are also bad, it's other countries (including us) are actually much more violent in that part of the world. And to look down on those people working there? What a load of hypocritical pish. So, hold on, you refused to go to a place to work (somewhere it seems you have never been) because you think it's a "dreadful part of the world" and you think this makes you some sort of morally upstanding hero? Good god, you could hardly prove my point about the arrogant and patronising attitude of people in the west any better. Some people go to work abroad and last 5 minutes because they can't get their Tennant's super brew and English breakfast - but at least they try. It doesn't seem you even made it that far. When I first moved abroad, and first moved to the middle east, it wasn't for money - I actually took a pay cut both times. I thought the world was bigger than the Scottish village I grew up in - and looking at some of the posts on this thread I'm incredibly glad I did. I mentioned Honduras earlier and I worked and lived there years ago, I didn't feel morally conflicted because it was a thuggish gangster regime who hated gays - and I equally didn't feel conflicted when I worked in the middle east which was far safer. I've never worked for any government agencies, I'm either private sector or NGO. Same as the commentary on the Qatar world cup, if you want somewhere totally unobjectionable it's either Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland or Denmark (and there's actually still plenty of wrong things with these countries). No one's perfect. You aren't a morally better person just because you decided to stay where you were born your whole life, whilst calling places you have never been "a dreadful part of the world". If you aren't willing to leave your cul de sac, at least read Rory Stewarts the places in between. There is beauty in all parts of the world. Hardly think the UK or the US can take the moral high ground when they have the perpetrators of two of the most brutal invasions this millennium (both of which were complete failures that left hundreds of thousands of civilians dead). And that's before you get into the pre 21st century crimes of the UK and US. This is getting wildly off topic so let's surmise and get back to the football. In the west you are taught from a young age that we are the moral arbiters and it's only other nations that have terrible human rights records. There is lots of ignorance in the view, with a healthy dash of patronising racism. This couldn't be better emphasized when players going to Saudi Arabia are being criticised but not those going to, say, Russia (pre Ukraine war) or the US. The only way to understand the world is to actually live in it and try and break you western pre conceived ideas. The middle east can be a very nice place to live, like anywhere else there are some bad parts and some good parts. Omanis are incredibly, almost ludicrously friendly and generous to guests whereas Kuwaitis are pretty much the opposite. You don't have to agree with a countries government to live there, and if you did you probably shouldn't live in the UK (the world's supervillains for the last 300 years). If you put your moral faith in Jordan Henderson and he let you down - thats on you. Let's hope those going to Saudi Arabia continue to liberalise the country which has changed massively since MBS took charge (for good and bad). If you hated the last world cup because you thought the Qatar regime in 2022 was worse than Russia in 2018 - then good god educate yourself.

Athletic article on Tierney: Good to see he's sensible, grounded and professional as I have been posting throughout the year. Some of the self hating Scot mentality we have seen on this thread would be to cry non stop, invent statistics to convince himself he's fourth choice and contiunally throw his toys out the pram. His attitude is why Tierney is a multi millionaire playing at the elite level. Those attacking him non stop for not playing every game will probably be losers, their mentality of focusing on (and creating) negatives will hold them back in any aspect of their life. Left-back Kieran Tierney has said his Arsenal future is not up to him but that he is happy at the north London club. The 26-year-old has been a key player for the Premier League side since his arrival from Celtic in 2019, but saw his game time reduced during the previous campaign following the arrival of Oleksandr Zinchenko from Manchester City. He has since been linked with a move to Newcastle United. Tierney did, however, still feature in 36 matches across all competitions last season and says he will always remain committed every time he plays for Mikel Arteta’s side. He said: “It’s not really up to me (my future). I’m happy, I’m working hard every day and getting minutes. I’m just trying to do as well as I can. “No (I have not had conversations with Arteta). “You can’t play every single game, every single season, every single year. I don’t expect that and I still made a lot of appearances last year. “I was ready every game and working 100 per cent. I think everyone in there would agree with that, that I never give less than that whether I’m playing or not. “In the games I did play I tried to do my best for the team. I came off the bench a lot last season, whether that was to see games out or help get a goal.” Arsenal have been busy so far in this summer’s transfer market following the arrivals of Kai Havertz, Jurrien Timber and Declan Rice. Rice, a £105million signing from West Ham United, has already settled in with his new team-mates, according to Tierney. “Declan actually said the other day he feels like he’s been here for so long,” he said. “It’s such a close group, great team-mates, great staff so I think they’re all loving it (the new players). “We’ve had a few songs. Declan gave us Ice, Ice Baby as he always does. “They’ve integrated really well and we’ve done team activities together. It’s been just what the new boys needed.” Arsenal next play Barcelona at SoFi Stadium, California on July 27 as part of their pre-season tour across the U.S following a 2-0 defeat to Manchester United in New Jersey.

An argument regarding what? It's to prompt you to think - why has no player who ever signed for a Russian club been criticised for the treatment of homosexuals in that country, but it is wheeled out every time a player signs for a Saudi club? Even if, by any measure, their treatment is far worse in parts of Russia. Or secondly, why wasn't there some critical monologue of Russia before the 2018 world cup but there was before 2022 in Qatar? Lineker himself admitted the BBC got this badly wrong. The media narrative of the Middle East is patronising, hypocritical, racist and deeply out of date. That's the point. Importing pets can be a challenge but you can easily buy pets (including dogs) there and they are perfectly legal. Additionally, the state can kill anyone they want really (and does), but Jamal Khashoggi was a botched kidnapping rather than an assassination. Still not great, but the UK and the US have been running targeted assassinations through drones in the Middle East for decades. And as for kidnapping people and transferring them to a prison out of country? Yeah, wonder where they got that idea from... Finally, nobody had issues with Russian owners / players signing for Russian teams even though the Russian state were quite openly killing people in the UK. Some people hate the idea that the Muslims / Arabs bad mentality is actually being questioned. Much easier to live in ignorance. I get it. Correct. And I'm not surprised posters hate this being pointed out. The world where the UK / US / Europe is a panacea for human rights and freedom and everywhere else is a rotten hell hole who hates our freedoms and our gays is a comforting place to be. But it's complete bullshit. A drag show brunch in Dubai has been going on for 10 years. So Fabinho, Firmino etc. aren't going to some fundamentalist desert - it's actually a far nicer, safer, more cosmopolitan place than where they grew up (Campinas and especially Maceio being pretty violent even by Brazilian standards). As for the Westerners judging players for going to play in Saudi Arabia? What a load of hypocritical bullshit. I hope it's a good experience for Jack Hendry and at least he will be playing against some elite (or formerly elite) attacking players.

Wasn't drunk in the slightest (it was the morning here when I posted it). I lived in the Middle East for years, as well as many other parts of the world. I am commenting on my lived experience. The Western centric view of Middle East bad, UK / Europe / USA good is as wildly hypocritical as Jordan Henderson supposedly is. It's no coincidence the world cup in Qatar received far more controversy than the World Cup in Russia despite the latter being, by any objective measure, a far more brutal regime (even in 2018). The Western media view on the middle east is patronising, out of date and often formed from some pretty deep seated racism. Back to the football, there is nothing wrong with any player playing in the middle east. There is very many things wrong with taking your moral compass from random footballers.

Which part of the middle east do you find particularly objectionable? If it's their rarely enforced laws on homosexuality, their absolute monarchy or their death penalty - fine, but many of these factors would also preclude you from working in most parts of the world. Henderson is only being signed because he's Gerrard's mate, it's no exaggeration that you could (easily) get 7 better players for that wage (especially as it's likely tax free). I think anyone who thinks he has ruined his reputation are those naive enough to believe PR pish from footballers in the first place. So they do as directed by their club and don't passionately care about LGBT rights? So Jordan Henderson really does care deeply about the NHS and doesn't have private medical insurance for his entire family? Henderson is just some random c**t, he's no better or worse than most people, and he is surrounded by agents etc who want to maximise his (and their) earnings. His views on gay people won't have suddenly changed because he plays in Saudi Arabia. If you took any some of morality from him, or any footballer, that's on you not them. There will be plenty of gay professional footballers in Saudi Arabia (a similar proportion to anywhere else) and like the UK they won't disclose it publicly. Working in the middle east doesn't mean you hate gay people, just like working in the US doesn't mean you love the death penalty or working in the UK means you love the Iraq war and building a new yacht for the royal family. And, fwiw, the middle east is no where near one of the worst places in the world to be gay. Try Chechnya, Hondurans or Uganda. In a hypothetical scenario, if a player signed for a club in any of these countries, would he be getting the same criticism? Nope, anti gay, migrant working, human rights abuses etc seem disproportionately lobbed at middle eastern countries.

In that case, you could say his decline came very early relative to his peers. It happened to Ronaldinho too - and for similar reasons. He didn't really give much of a shit after leaving Barcelona. England kept playing Rooney far longer than they should, even though everyone knew (even at the time) he was the notorious dressing room leak. Rooney chucking it in his late 20s was a shock, it's not as if anyone is expecting Kane to phone it in with 10 goals this season.

I don't know, whenever you are asked to accept cookies you are assured that the site / app / organisation values your privacy. Naturally, I'm inclined to believe them.

Really need a Prince William email equivalent to the George Osborne one floating about. I have no doubt it would be much much worse. No point doing one from Charles, it's public record he's a deviant.

He was done at the top level in his early 30s and massively decline had set in by late 20s. Meanwhile guys like Lewandowski, Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic playing at the top level well into their mid 30s. And it was down to his notoriously poor professionalism and diet.

The intent of most pundits, and most media companies, isn't to explain intricate concepts to a vast audience - it is simply entertainment. Sometimes entertainment will be shitting on Johnny Foreigner, sometimes it will be banal platitudes, sometimes it will be Roy Keane looking hard. It does nothing for me so I don't watch any of it any more. You can very easily consume football coverage for free, the whole industry is built on a house of cards of consumers with enough cash, and not enough technical know how.

I agree, I just don't agree with Aluko that Guardiola (or man city generally) did it to benefit Arteta in pushing the Arsenal board to increase their offer. Man city don't give a f**k about Arteta, anything they did they did to hurt Arsenal. And they have a decent track record of doing similar.

Keys and Gray are 66 and 67 respectively. Anyone else a bit surprised they are still sharing sexist and transphobic memes? Good god lads, humour is meant to evolve. Or do all guys in their 60s still do this regularly?

Also means the bold George was having kids with a woman ten years his senior at 17/18 years old. Additionally, the place they booked was getting a pleasant 6.3 - it's out of 10! Got to go 7.5 or higher for booking or agoda...

She's wrong on that point, but Man City have a long history of tepid interest in players that suits their agenda in various ways. I remember them 'wanting' to sign total duds like Sanchez and Maguire which had a, I'm sure totally coincidental, negative impact on their rivals who had to put in higher bids. Man city were never that bothered about Rice, a player they don't even need who probably wouldn't start in their current side.

And, as pointed out, he was getting pretty crap for the last four of those seasons. Certainly no where near his best, he was noticeably in decline by his late 20s. His contemporaries aren't just in the Premier League, guys like Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic or Lewandowski were playing at the top long after Rooney's early decline. His England team mates like Gerrard or Lampard also managed far longer. For context, it would be like Kane suddenly becoming a bit rubbish this season at 29. It would be a big surprise. It's down to Rooney's notoriously poor diet and his lack of professionalism, relative to his elite contemporaries. Fowler is also a good example of a player who shone briefly but brightly, then quickly became terrible.

He was done at the top level by his early 30s. Most players of his generation lasted a lot longer than that. And others who did fall off early, like Kaka or Owen, can blame it on injuries. Rooney didn't really have major injuries, it was mostly down to his lack of professionalism. Bales form also fell off a bit of a cliff. Also, given this thread contains multiple world record holders (with asterisks) the fact Rooney used to be good can't disqualify him from a massive, unexpected decline in form.

Elvis still alive according to the internet.

I didn't actually know about the Stokes charge but it is a particularly unsurprising development. Boy will be spending a decent chunk of his playing retirement in jail I think. Very interesting thread. A name you don't hear enough of in discussions like this is Wayne Rooney, he only managed more than 20 league goals twice and the last time was when he was 27. In his last four seasons in the EPL he was averaging a goal only every 3.3 games. Now you could say that's because he was playing midfield, but really he was only playing there because he couldn't cope as a forward any more. He was 31 when Man Utd released him, and 32 when Everton released him a year early. Compared to many of his contemporaries this is a cliff edge early decline. All the fags, takeaways and playing senior football from age 16 can't have helped.

See no evidence Arsenal are trying to get shot of Tierney at all. What I saw online, could be bollocks, was that Arteta was very keen for him to stay as he could thrive in a new 3 at the back formation he wants to use next season. Regardless, even if they were trying to get shot of him the asking price for an experienced PL/international player, regarded as a high performing model pro, will be many magnitudes higher than anything Celtic could afford.

You would expect Switzerland to usually be better than us because they have >60% more people. What's really interesting about them is that they are virtually entirely a team made up of second and third generation immigrants. If you need any more reason to support Scotland opening it's borders and bringing in more immigrants* - any great Swiss footballer you can think of from Akanji, Xhaka, Shaqiri, Inler, Yakin Rodriguez, Embolo, Zakaria, Seferovic, Behrami etc. Etc. Etc. are typically entirely of recent immigrant descent. From the Scottish national team we have hardly anyone and that is to our significant detriment in modern football. *As part of the UK, we can't do this. Whilst lots of nations allow regions to dictate immigration policy, in the UK we can't and almost all immigrants go to the closest part of embarkation in SE England (conveniently also the richest part of the country, with established immigrant communities).

Where I live, due to work permit rules, spouses typically aren't able to work. Typically, these are white collar professional women but there is an increasing number of men. For additional context, live in domestic helpers are near ubiquitous so the stay at home spouse will do as much (or as little) childcare and domestic work as they so desire. It's fascinating to me how some really thrive doing this, whilst others actively despise it. One woman, who I had only met for 5 mins, lambasted her life of yoga and afternoon tea and longed for her life as an E&Y auditor (!?!). It's probably especially jarring if back home they thought of themselves as being more educated / successful than their spouse, one surprisingly well adjusted couple has a doctoral geophysicist at home whilst her husband looks at pipes. Culturally, western women find it hardest to adapt in my experience. For the men, they either work remotely, or start every conversation with what they used to do (looking fairly exasperated regardless). It's getting better, but it's still a shame being a stay at home dad isn't fully embraced by society. Probably doesn't help the daytime social scene is female dominated and they aren't really welcome there either! They are all married (many got married prematurely to get the visa to move). Agreed you would be taking a bit of a chance without this protection. Many fairly young educated women I have met in my career openly express their desire to not work, and be a stay a home wife but I have never heard any man express such a desire. I like to think I could do it, but given I get bored at home if I spend one day there at weekend I'm probably kidding myself.

The news reports a few weeks ago was that Arteta was desperate for him to stay. Who knows what will happen. The only thing we can predict with absolute certainty is that the road will be on to criticise Tierney at every possible opportunity. Some idiot on a podcast makes something up? The road will buy it hook, line and sinker and attack Tierney with it. Boy is obsessed, KT probably shagged some burd he's been pining for.

And if there two exactly the same incidents the outcome would the same - tragedies in New Zealand far more coverage than those in far closer countries like Morocco or Albania. You agreed with it earlier when you said it was about similar culture - it is, it doesn't have to be, but it is. You can twist any incident as to why it gets more coverage but the most obvious is usually staring at you in the first - it usually rich white people Vs poor non rich people. The former will get more coverage in almost conceivable case - surely you agree on that? I dont doubt that, most news media are businesses. Same when it was mainstream films featuring predominantly white cast being made for mostly white people. Or why Barbie was white, not black, for the first few decades. The only way it will get better is to keep calling it out. And if it makes people uncomfortable - that's good, it's not meant to be a comforting feeling to be confronted with this kind of stuff.

Well of course it was the headliner, it was by far the deadliest terrorist attack of the year. Did it last one day on the news? Was it getting regular headlines / discussed for days / a 30 page topic on p&b? It was none of these things, you couldn't even remember it even when I told you where it took place, how many died and that it was by far the deadliest terrorist attack of the year. It doesn't matter to most people here. They can't relate to the victims. We can change that. Just keep calling out this media inadequacy. Also the fact it happens a lot should make it more newsworthy not less? Not exactly ideal for one country to be incredibly violent with lots of people being killed is it? Maybe with a bit more attention from the world things might get better. You actually mentioned in your earlier post it's due to culture and it is. This bias applies to almost every news story, the only difference is the degree to which it applies. America is also a very violent scenario, if 80 of their cops died in a bombing you'd be hearing about it for decades. In Pakistan it might have got one day of coverage. It doesn't have to, it should focus on stories with the highest human impact. Massive terrorist attack - yes very much so. A few thrill seeking diving extremists dying in a sub? Far less so.