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Folk on this thread may have an interest in the news and forum sections of Scottish Rural Action's website - https://www.sra.scot Cheers.

I like the idea. I've been hoping for something like this and thought the creation of the Lowland League was supposed to be just the first step towards something much more open between the League and non-league - but more promotion and relegation has never materialised. Do Berwick and East Stirlingshire not talk to their former chums in SPFL2? More play-off places makes the lower league more exciting (the LL and HL could do that part themselves, right now - e.g. HL 1st v LL 2nd, LL 1st v HL 2nd, winners play off) and gives relegated clubs a much better chance to regain League status. Maybe it'll have to happen to a couple more of them before things are sorted for the better; automatic relegation for the worst in the League and automatic promotion for the best non-leaguers seems just. (Unless they're actually quite chuffed at the change of scene, and looking forward to meeting new clubs coming through; but opening up the leagues enables more of this, too, so even 12-12-10-10 would be more interesting than at present.)

That doesn't sound quite right. Aren't there clubs playing regionally who have higher average attendances than some of those playing nationally? Isn't it the case that most clubs further down the pyramid will have lower attendances because they are simply smaller clubs, rather than that being caused by them playing in regional or district leagues? When derbies produce higher attendances than playing against non-rivals, as they surely do (?), it seems a logical decision to pursue that money. I'm sure we'll find out more as the pyramid progresses. I wonder if relegation to the Lowland League is already looking like a less fearful prospect for League Two clubs; maybe Berwick and East Stirlingshire will be quite sanguine about where they find themselves.

I don't follow your arithmetic, there. Travel costs are absolute so, although you seem to be making a general comparison as to the relative sustainability of part-time vs full-time clubs, absolute travel costs are similar for both; therefore, playing on a national basis is less affordable for part-timers who by definition (?) have less income. Which I assume is why they would benefit financially from fewer of the longer away trips, more of the shorter journeys, and more income from local away supports. I'm afraid I don't follow your reasoning on the geography of Scotland and partitioning into regions leading to clubs travelling much further. I think that sounds good. The only thing that would concern me is small league tables becoming polarised, with teams lots of points apart and so maybe less interest as a result, but since they're all at the same level then I guess all 18 could sit fairly in the same league table even though they're playing slightly different fixtures?

I think the point was whether the part-timers could compete consistently on a national basis without their SPFL payment; presumably, the full-time clubs could continue to do so because of their larger following. Something like 14-14-18 would allow full-time clubs at tier 2 to still play one another enough to support their finances, yet would enable room for several part-time clubs to develop within the league over seasons - and hopefully turn full-time. It would be good to have a larger bottom tier from the perspective of opening up the league to the bigger non-league clubs that will probably now be coming up the pyramid, and to help relegated former SPFL clubs return to the league more easily.

What I wrote there was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Hence the crap anecdote (I was also urinated on by a dog on that same touchline, so Alloa - not a happy place for me). Can't find much to disagree with in what you say. I like what you're saying on restructuring; we'll probably never find out if the first part of what you say is true.

Thanks, both.

I went past Wallyford on the train the other day and noticed the rather large skeleton of a stand, adjacent to a football-field sized park. No sign of construction work, although there is a KC Scaffolding (see Google's map, for exact location) firm next door. Anyone know if Wallyford amateurs have something happening here? Or Musselburgh seniors, maybe? It looks like it would be impressive if completed. Cheers!

Interesting. Airth has a pineapple, I understand. The train journey from Stirling through to Alloa is also very scenic.

I'd like to see an independent Scotland's government give Laffer-curve tax policy a go. If I remember my economics, lower taxation enables people and firms to spend more, which creates more jobs and businesses in order to meet demand, and so the government recoups the tax revenue from having a larger number of people and firms doing better in a growing economy. (With all the health benefits of people being in work rather than on the dole; although it would need to be a services-led economy, as more consumption of goods is not desirable for environmental reasons - unless it's to build infrastructure, like wind turbines for off-shore farms or small-scale run-of-river hydro for the energy to replace Hunterston.) I realise Gordon Brown's "share in the proceeds of growth" policy was based on Laffer-type economics, but I wouldn't want an independent Scotland to build a huge public sector with the 'proceeds' or we'd be facing similarly huge austerity during the inevitable down-cycle of the economy, in order to hack back government spending again - which was the major flaw in New Labour economics.

The 'pro' I'd be interested in is if it was part of a larger plan that enabled the Old Firm's galactcos first teams to leave Scottish football and play in some kind of cross-border or Atlantic League-type thing. Scottish football could thrive without the OF at the top level - crowds could pour in to clubs with a sudden realistic chance of winning the league. I think so. I take it that the issue is with the Colt Firm trying to skip the non-league, as Hibs, Berwick, Stranraer, Stirling Uni, Spartans, and maybe others have all had second teams of some kind in the league. I encountered Mr Mulholland when watching youth teams playing at a park in central Alloa several years ago. A youngster knocked the ball out the park, and I played it back in thinking there'd be a quick throw. The lad, obviously looking for a breather, booted it straight back at me. As I quickly dodged, Mr Mulholland laughed and shouted "one-two". I gave him the Alloa glare, and he sauntered off chuckling away to himself. So, for that reason, no colts. Good place to watch several games simultaneously, though; there's a wee mound with a bench on it that has a decent view of all the action. Also - who knew that Alloa had a port?

I'm not quite clear on what sort of cross-border league we'd be looking at: - full integration with other countries at the top level(s), and national leagues feeding into that via play offs; - or, an Atlantic League sort of thing with a permanent, franchise-type membership that's just about the kudos; - or, creating something that looks like a sixth major European league, with Champions' League places available, etc. I'm not sure those categories are mutually exclusive, mind you

**Policy Interlude** A policy I'd like to see implemented is for younger folk to be more fairly treated by the minimum wage - by one or other of the governments topping up the mandatory minimum wage that employers must pay them, to the full 25s-and-over minimum wage amount. I can see why they allow employers to pay young folk less, because otherwise firms may not take on inexperienced staff and we don't want a wasted generation of unemployed youngsters, but young workers are adults and do face many of the same costs as the rest of us. Since the living/minimum wage is government policy, it is their responsibility to ensure that it is applied to people fairly. (Could be a good starter policy for the Lib Dems and Sir Ed.)

I would have liked to have seen this competition as being only for Scottish senior teams, including all non-league seniors and all non-Premiership SPFL teams; it would be good to have this as a cup competition to support the senior league pyramid, at this time of integration and change.

If the objectives are to have the top 16 clubs entering at Round 4, and to include all 64 eligible non-league clubs, then an 8 round competition is possible: Round 1 - 64 teams (all non-league); Round 2 - 52 teams (32 winners from R1, plus 20 teams from League One and League Two); Round 3 - 32 teams (26 winners from R2, plus 6 Championship teams); Round 4 - 32 teams (16 winners from R3, plus 4 from Championship, plus 12 from Premiership); Round 5 - 16 teams (winners of R4 ties); Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals, and Final - as normal. Sorry to be boorish or patronising or for seemingly spamming this thread, but it seemed important. I'll go away now.

Preliminary Round - 8 clubs (non-league); Round 1 - 60 clubs (4 Prelim winners, plus the remaining 56 non-league clubs); Round 2 - 40 clubs (30 R1 winners, plus 10 League Two clubs); Round 3 - 40 clubs (20 R2 winners, plus 10 League One clubs, plus 10 Championship clubs); Round 4 - 32 clubs (20 R3 winners, plus 12 Premiership clubs); Round 5 - 16 clubs R4 (winners); QF, SF, F - as normal. 9 rounds, phased, no-one misses out, no ballot required. If you're aiming for a round of 60 teams, but have a surplus of 4 teams (i.e. 64 eligible), you need to take a further 4 teams from within the 60 in order to make up your Preliminary Round of 8 teams, with the 4 winners then folding back into the Round of 60. Similarly, if you are 5 teams short of your Round of 32 (for example), you need to give 5 teams a 'by' to the Round of 16, with the remaining 22 teams facing off to join them in that Round. And so on, for each round. Good luck.

Simplest way: Round 1 - 84 teams (64 non-league, 20 from leagues One and Two); Round 2 - 64 teams (42 from R1, 22 from Premiership and Championship); Round 3 - 32 winners from R2. It would mean an additional fixture for the big clubs, but that would be against a very wee club - unless they seed Round 1, in order to knock out some of the little guys first. How to do it? Basic structure of knock-out rounds for a cup - 2 team final, 4 teams in semis, 8 quarter-finalists, then 16, 32, 64, 128, etc. If you have 10 teams more than the Round of 64 needs (i.e. 74 teams), for example, then you take an additional 10 teams from within that 64 in order to create a Round 1 of 20 teams, the 10 winners then feeding back into a Round 2 of 64 teams (i.e 54 teams, plus the 10 Round 1 winners). If you have 1 team less than the Round of 64 needs (i.e. 63 teams) you give one team a 'by', the remaining 62 teams participate in Round 1, with the 31 winners plus the 'by' participating in Round 2.

If it was for at this moment, i'd go with 12-16-16 to accommodate the shorter season for the lower leagues (and to let Kelty and Brora in). Then look to expand again for next season. Might work with separate West, Central, East, and North conferences at this level. They could test the idea as a Celtic Cup, with Swansea, Cardiff, the four Irish regions that were mentioned, and some of our lot. At the time of the changes to the Challenge Cup, I think I recall the SPFL's Deal Broadcaster talking about the competition setting a precedent for something; we all thought it was for colts in senior competitions, but maybe it was for cross-border competitions at a higher level...

22 games - absolutely. Less is more. I'd regionalised from the top, though, with a 12-team East Premiership and a 12-team West Premiership, playing just 22 games per team as you say, then a winter break. After the winter shutdown, the top 4 from each of the two regional Premierships would go forward to the National Premiership, playing eachother home and away to settle the European places and crown Scottish Champions (36-game season, in total). The 8 teams remaining in each regional Premiership would play each other again, home and away, to avoid relegation (36-game season, in total) - with the top East and top West teams at the season's end playing off against the National team who is sitting in the final European place, winners taking that European place. Or, the remaining 8 teams in the East could play the remaining 8 teams in the West at home and away to complete a 38-game season, points being added ongoing to their early season tally, with the same European incentive and relegation disincentive as before. Edited to add - it would be interesting to see separate West and East of Scotland cups, including all the biggest clubs, too.

The main issue with this proposal, for me, was that the middle 8 would have points reset to zero after 22 games, which would be unfair on those doing better in the earlier part of the season and would see some teams with not much to play for if they qualified early for the middle 8. I would address this by awarding starting points before the middle 8 begins based on pre-split league position. You would normally expect 11th in Prem and 2nd in Champ to play off, so they'd need to begin on the same points; you wouldn't expect 4th in Ch to be promoted, so they'd begin on zero. So I'd start the middle 8 with points pre-allocated as follows: 1 - 12pts (for team 9th in Prem) 2 - 10pts (team 1st from Cham) 3 - 8pts (for 10th Prem) 4 - 6pts (for 2nd Champ) 5 - 6pts (for 11th Prem) 6 - 4pts (for 3rd Champ) 7 - 2pts (for 12th Prem) 8 - 0pts (for 4th Champ) But with an additional European place now, I think a 16-team Premiership becomes possible. I would split after 30 games, with the top 4 playing home and away again for 36 games each in total, and the bottom 4 doing likewise. The middle 8 could play each other once more in a continuation of the league and 37 games in total, or could divide into two groups of 4 and then a wee knockout competition. The winner of the middle 8 would qualify for Europe in seasons where one of the top 4 won the Scottish Cup and so the European place would normally pass to 5th in the league; if any other team won the Scottish Cup, then 4th in the league would play off against the best team in the middle 8 who had not already qualified for Europe (to cover the possibility of 5th in the league having won the cup).

Yep. I've always liked the Atlantic League idea. It'd give some attractive games, and could off-load an Old Firm fixture to enable Scottish Premiership expansion. The format I'd use would be something like two divisions of 7, teams playing one another just once. Edited to add - I'd schedule the fixtures for during the winter breaks and/or late-season mid-weeks when most teams have been knocked out of European football and/or pre-season mid-weeks before European football has begun for these clubs and/or pre-season weekends once mid-week European football has already begun for these clubs.

Just to say that when some supporters are allowed back into grounds, they should be home supporters only and spread through all four stands. Keep the virus from travelling too far that way, and the resultant reduced risk may be persuasive to the government.

I agree with you there. I was trying to illustrate that each area (west, north and east) has a more remote district league that could be accommodated through play offs - rather than by being integrated into a larger West, East or North of Scotland League with the bulk of other clubs. From that perspective l don't really blame north Tayside clubs for not applying to the EoS, since the conferences there merge all of the other districts together and so would require all the additional travel - similar to the earlier argument that NCL teams wouldn't want to play through an Aberdeenshire-dominated league, and SoS teams wouldn't want to play through a Glasgow-dominated league. It seems to me that North Tay could be treated in a similar way as the SoS and the NCL. Sitting as an independent district league at tier 6, it could promote alongside the WoS, EoS and SoS into the Lowland League. Still having a hard time believing LL clubs rejected the Club 42 boundary scrappage on the basis of it possibly meaning one away game each to Brechin a season, though!

There are many more clubs in the lowland catchment, so I'd be expecting more leagues there. I think promotion playoffs address those imbalances, because the area with more clubs will tend to win them - but the possibility of the champions of the less populated area winning is always there. I agree that some relegation and promotion between levels is a must for it to be a pyramid. Interesting reading. Sorry to hear about the divides in the north juniors, but they'll know best if the pyramid is for them or not. I see Angus and Dundee are part of the SFA's East Region rather than North - some indication of how they're viewed in one respect; perhaps a precedent for inclusion in the lowland catchment. Or even a basis for being seen as a special case, given the apparent contradiction with North Tay simultaneously being north of the SFA pyramid's dividing line. With pre-season suspended, it seems opportune to settle these issues - even if it means the EoS revisiting their tier 7 conferences to allow for a North Tay regional conference, from this season (the first step might be theirs).

For a while in England there was talk of a game 39, where teams would play an additional fixture abroad; there's often talk of which is the best league in the world; Celtic and Rangers are always keen to play Europe's bigger clubs, but an Atlantic league has issues over fixture scheduling and big-fish-no-longer-in-small-sea. So...eachseason l'd like to see a day where the Scottish Premiership takes on the top league in, say, Portugal: 1st plays against 1st, 2nd v 2nd, etc down to 6th v 6th. Points awarded as normal for wins and draws, but added to an overall Scottish tally that may or may not beat their rival league's points total. It would give the biggest names against each other, and some smaller names a bit of competitive European experience, but would avoid an exhaustive everyone-plays-everyone league. If it worked, we could have a mini-league, pre-sesson between Scots, Dutch, Belgian and Portuguese top divisions (for example), with just 3 fixtures dates required to complete the tournament. So you'd have, maybe, Celtic v Porto, Ajax, Liege; Rangers v Benfica, PSV, Brugge; Aberdeen v Sporting, Feyenoord, Leuven; etc, but with points accruing to a league v league total. Well, maybe not; but I'd like to see it.