Antony
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Posts posted by Antony
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7 minutes ago, kingjoey said:
So any tricolour flag with a white band stands for Peace? Russia?
No I was talking about the Irish flag and why the colours were chosen and what the flag represents.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland
No idea about Russia as I'm not Russian but I would guess white on a flag would often represent peace just like red would often be to represent blood of people who fought for the country.
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Just now, kingjoey said:
Maybe I'm being dim, but in what way does the Irish flag represent peace more than any other flag, apart from the Jolly Roger.
Green is for Ireland/Catholic, white is for peace and Orange is for unionism (protestants).
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17 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:
Celtic fans eh. Read a point, completely ignore it, then make up their own version to make it sound like they're being personally attacked.
I couldn't give a single f**k if someone walked into my house covered in an Irish flag. Celtic make a point of having a kit, or team wear, with those colours on it simply to help continue the Irish v British/Catholic v Protestant/Celtic v Rangers mentality within their supports.
Both clubs and fanbases actively encourage and revel in creating a Catholic v Protestant mentality. That is an undeniable fact yet here we are, with 3 Celtic fans claiming that their club putting out an anti-Protestant message in a major kit launch, lyrics within an anti-Protestant song their fans sing, isn't them promoting an anti-Protestant message.
Celtic promote themselves as a Catholic/Irish club because its part of the rivalry with Rangers. Rangers promote themselves as Protestant/British because its part of the rivalry with Celtic. Both clubs turn a blind eye to songs their fans sing that promote bigotry/sectarianism as its part of the rivalry. Both clubs sell club wear designed to annoy the other side because its part of the rivalry. Both clubs put out public slogans designed to encourage anti-Catholic/anti-Protestant sentiments as its part of the rivalry.
Both clubs get away with it, and the fans get away with it, because theres thousands of mewling wee pathetic boot lickers like you three, on both sides, who'd rather circle the wagons around a bunch of bigots and protect them than understand that you're as big a part of the issue as they are by blocking others from taking action.
I guess I'll end up with some bizarre wee history lesson from 150 years ago, or I'll be told I'm the bigot, or some other weirdo deflective bullshit, tbh. Its like a fucking cult.
You keep repeating yourself and I'm not disagreeing with you. But you don't realise you are proving the point being made by other posters.
You are making it abundantly clear that expressions of Irishness in Scotland are seen as an "issue". That's the view taken in Scotland but from an outsider's perspective its not really a great reflection on your country. If waving an Irish flag stirs up feelings of hatred and anger maybe they are the issue rather than a flag that represents peace.
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18 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:
It's an issue alongside everything else, not as a single action.
Its done as part of a tit for tat with Rangers to maintain, and escalate, the Catholic v Protestant undercurrent in the rivalry.
It was in response to a Celtic fan claiming Celtic aren't part of the issue and are just innocent bystanders as Rangers fire out bigotry/sectarianism.
Both clubs encourage it within their supports.
Yeah that's what i said, you see having an Irish flag as an issue. The flag literally represents peace between Catholics and protestants hence the green and orange. The flag of the Irish nation isn't sectarian and it does not promote anti-protestantism. If the Irish flag causes sectarian problems or some sort of rivalry it's probably because your country has an issue with anti-Irish racism. Maybe you can should have a look at that before claiming what the Irish flag or Irish identity represents.
Someone waving an Irish flag doesn't give Scottish people the right to abuse them for their nationality or religion.
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3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:
Absolute nonsense. Really imbecilic stuff from you. Especially on a part of the thread discussing an organisation such as the Orange Order whose Irish branch is firmly rooted in Irish culture.
So you understood my point perfectly well.
Someone on this thread said Celtic putting a tricolour on the Celtic strip is an issue or is anti-protestant. Celebrating Irish heritage is clearly an issue for some people.
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3 minutes ago, Clown Job said:
I said something similar a while back in the cricket thread, but celebrating Irish heritage is still seen as something very negative in Scottish society
Unlike other cultures in Scotland
Things are changing because these sort of attitudes are not really as socially acceptable anymore, but it can still linger
As someone with what you might perceive with an Irish background because of my name, I’ve lost count the number of times in the past I have been abused simply because my name makes me “one of them” despite me having no Irish connection.
It does give the impression that despite being a Scot, you’re never truly accepted as one to some in our society
I can totally understand why people of Irish heritage will look towards that first and foremost as a result, but those that do are labelled as “plastics”
You don’t hear that sort of label aimed at Asian Scots for example
Look at the abuse McGeady and McCarthy suffered because they wanted to play for Ireland.
Anything that is seen as remotely Irish will send some people into a seething mess.
The post I quoted kind of proves the issue and is why a lot of Irish people have reservations about Scotland despite the 2 having similar histories. Celtic celebrating their Irish heritage with a tricolour on a strip is not in any way negative to me. But seeing people say that the flag of the Irish nation is promoting anti-protestantism is just bizarre, but that's obviously a useful narrative to push.
No one fought for civil rights, they fought because they hate protestants and the British way of life. Couldn't be further from the truth but that's obviously the view over in Scotland.
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7 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:
That comes as no surprise.
Ok well how should they focus on Scotland's role in slavery and Ireland's role in the Empire. The writing on that banner would be too small I think. Also the Green Brigade did recently highlight Glasgow's role in slavery by renaming Street names in Glasgow City Centre. But you win that argument, I don't get the relevance sorry.
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8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:
How are you getting on with the anti-imperialism stuff I asked you about?
I didn't understand your point sorry. They celebrate Irish independence which is obviously a bit of a no no in Scotland as it involved booting the British Empire out of Ireland. Maybe if they wrote a thesis on the issue they could highlight each country's individual role. But I was just talking about them waving a tricolour or singing the Soldier Song.
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7 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:
Your club literally led with a tagline of "this is our city" at the same time as revelling in being a "Catholic club".
Any form of research shows you what those words mean in Glasgow in a Catholic v Protestant context.
Your fans still regularly sing "Roamin in the Gloamin" too, which the club does nothing about.
That's ignoring the fact that Celtic put as much effort into making sure they have the Irish tricolor on their strip in some form as Rangers do to have Orange in their team wear. Both clubs know the Catholic v Protestant angle makes them money so both promote it.
Trying to excuse yourselves from a two way rivalry that's encouraged sectarianism/bigotry from both sides for decades is just a pathetic attempt at pretending its not your problem to solve.
That's what the problem is imo. You say putting a tricolour on a strip is in the same category as orangism. That's why you can't ban Rangers from encouraging orangism because you would have to be even handed and ban the "Irishism" at Celtic. And to people not from Scotland that would obviously make it seem like it has serious anti-Irish issues. If you accept they're 2 different issues then you can tackle them in different ways. Pretending they are the same prevents anything being done.
Putting an Irish tricolour or a Harp on a football strip is no more anti-protestant than St Johnstone's badge being anti-Catholic. Being Irish/Catholic doesn't make you anti-protestant but of course it suits the British media to push the narrative that resistance to their occupation was because the Irish hate protestants. I would disagree that "this is our city" is anti-protestant but maybe because I'm biased i don't see it. Another of the club's taglines is "open to all" which has as much relevance to reality. But yes I take your point on the roaming in the gloaming song, anyone singing it should be banned and if it continues the club cannot keep turning a blind eye.
But I didn't try and say it's a one way street, all I'm saying is that it's not 2 equal and opposite things. Of course in the UK, the media will be happy to peddle the idea that Irish Republicanism was anti-protestant, which is fine, but if you want to actually tackle the issue then you would have to be more clever about it but yeah that's probably a long way away
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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:
I wonder what the thousands of young Rangers fans seeing that celebration for the first time are being told it stands for?
And the circle will begin anew with the ones told the truth, as their young minds see a Rangers legend, absolutely adored by 50,000 fans, get applauded and cheered for a public symbol of sectarianism.
Normalising, and encouraging, it is wrong, but both Old Firm sides, both club and supporter, seems to allow it to continue endlessly to promote the "brand". You're just yet another fine example of why it continues. A "sensible" mind who knows it's wrong, but instead puts his efforts into making excuses for those who don't based on the club you support.
How do Celtic FC encourage anti-protestant bigotry?There's a number of Celtic fans who have outed themselves as being as bad as anyone over the years but constantly refusing to separate anti-catholicism from Irish republicanism/anti imperialism is a big problem in Scotland and arguably one of the reasons why the 2 won't be tackled. The two things may not be needed in 21st century Scotland but they are 2 different issues with different histories. I can see why "ugly sisters" and "arse cheeks" resonates with a lot of people but when it comes to addressing the issues we can't just say "one is as bad as the other, throw them in the sea". This attitude means everything needs to be done even handedly. It's why the word to describe Rangers fans is being deemed as sectarian, so that it's not seen as biased when anti-Catholic slurs are clamped down on. And it's maybe why harsher punishments haven't been looked at for some of Rangers chanting because they would need to do the same for Celtic's Republican songs which would be a more complex issue.
If people want to say the 2 clubs are as bad as each other from a football point of view then that's fine but in terms of the 2 societal issues it's not really 2 sides of the same coin. What's worse comes down to your own morals but they are very different issues that need handled differently.
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Obviously it would be better if it wasn't sung but it's difficult to make a case for it being anti-protestant when protestants say it. Cheer up Steven Gerrard was a song I heard mostly from Aberdeen fans. I suppose you could say its sectarian but I think you would then have to admit the Orange Order is also sectarian because you can't join if you are Catholic or have Catholic parents.
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Tight but he's ahead of the ball so offside.
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Hibs fans will sell out the extra 2000 in a couple of days. The very worst the spfl could do next time Hibs are in a final is give Hibs 20,000 to start with as they've proved they can sell out comfortably. And then once that's sold out give Hibs the last 3,000 or whatever takes it up 50-50.
Hopefully it will just be split 50-50 to start with but knowing the spfl it probably won't happen.
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On 08/11/2021 at 17:42, Monkey Tennis said:
Yes, our already most bloated clubs will have a chance to extend their profile and income yet further.
That's definitely worth mindlessly celebrating.
Celtic and Rangers will make the group stages most seasons anyway, regardless of the coefficient or what qualifying round they start in. Other clubs in Scotland won't. But if the coefficient can stay where it is, then it means the third place teams will also be guaranteed group stage football and the money it brings. I don't know the exact figures but I think the Europa League and Conference League prize money is fairly similar.
With a bad coefficient, Celtic and Rangers get to the groups anyway and no one else does. With a good coefficient Celtic, Rangers and one other team get to the groups and get similar prize money. So having a bad coefficient could actually widen the gap more than a good coefficient.
If we were in this coefficient position this time last season, then Ali McCann or Jason Kerr might still be at St Johnstone today, as they'd have an extra 3 or 4 million pounds in the bank from playing in the Conference League groups.
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2 minutes ago, scmwell said:
Tiocfaidh ár lá now. Glass houses etc
Each to their own, but songs about Irish independence aren't really the same as singing about a dead football player in my book.
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3 minutes ago, scmwell said:
f**k the queen and Davie Cooper “he’s deid” heard with my own ears.
Might have been "Bobby Sands MP" maybe. Anyway great goal.
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12 minutes ago, Buckets said:
What song about Davie Cooper?
There wasn't one. IRA yes, Davie Cooper no.
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East Kilbride will fill the extra spot after lots were drawn between EK and Fraserburgh as tier 5 runners up. Group stage draw on Friday.
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On 06/05/2021 at 10:50, Bmm said:
Would the most sensible thing to do not have the scottish cup winners play in the group stage.
They have only two qualifiers that start in August and competive football might be useful for them.
If Hibs win the cup it might look a bit daft to make your third place team play in the groups while 4th and 5th get a bye. If its any of the other 3 I think that's the best solution to give them preparation for the Europa. The 5th European spot could be with us for 3 or 4 years though, so they might look at a more permanent solution.
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Out of the 10 West Lothian juniors known to have applied only Stoneyburn and Pumpherston haven't confirmed they've been accepted.
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6 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:
I think that's the only non OF cup double.
Aberdeen did another cup double a few years before. Aberdeen and Hearts have both done a league and Cup double but that's it.
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9 hours ago, Rob1885 said:
Where on earth have you pulled Sutton and Stockport from?
If the Premier League were to lose these 6 teams it either runs with a 14 team league or more likely promotes from within to keep the same structure for the top 4 leagues (ie 6 teams in each division promoted to a higher tier). I just named the top 6 clubs in the English National League which will be the new entrants into the EFL to keep the structure the same.
If they did happen to lose 6 of their top clubs that all get crowds of 50,000 plus, they will either shrug their shoulders and get on with it or look at some other more radical ways of compensating. I don't think it will happen, but inviting some Scottish clubs that could potentially attract 25,000 to 60,000 fans and are Championship/Premier League level sized clubs wouldn't seem a dreadful idea to me. It is obviously far fetched but the 6 Nationql League clubs I named only get crowds of a couple of thousand and will likely just hang about League Two.
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If they are moaning about too many games and injuries then they should start resting players now. If they lose tonight they will be 11 points adrift with 12 points left to play for. They could give their players 3 weeks off from now until the playoff if they want. They have 4 meaningless games that they can use however they like to prepare.
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55 minutes ago, Aim Here said:
Haha. How does that work? If someone with top-tier football skills is offered only £30 million a year instead of £80 million, they're going to give up football and become the CEO of Coca Cola or a lottery winner instead? The ESL clubs are only 12 clubs, and so they'll only soak up about 200 top-tier footballers, tops - the worst case scenario is they'll hire the same 200 footballers they already have. (In reality, it'll be less than that, because the ESL has no relegation, so all the teams that aren't going to win anything in a given season have a big financial incentive to dump their most expensive players on the market in the winter transfer window and play 5 months worth of dead rubbers, the way things happen in American sports).
The reason player wages are so high is that the easiest way to ensure a club gets income is to win football matches, the easiest way to win football matches is to spunk as much money as possible on the best players you can afford, and the best player isn't 'best' in any absolute sense; all that matters is that he's better than the other players who are willing and able to play for the team. Basically the top teams are all fighting over the 1000 or 2000 or so best football players on the planet, and bidding all their spare cash on them. Unless the cash *really* dries up to nothing (and it won't), having less money to spunk on players just means the same players will be playing football but will be paid less - they're still going to be earning far more than they can realistically hope to get in any other profession because they'll still be squeezing all the disposable income out of the clubs they play for.
That's kind of a simplistic way to look at it. While the top clubs in the new Premier League could still pay more money I'm more looking at the bigger picture, and clubs further down the pecking order. Maybe Championship clubs will no longer be able to spend more money than Celtic and Rangers and maybe League Two clubs won't pay better wages than some Scottish Premiership clubs. Midtable English clubs will no longer be as likely to fork out huge sums on an 18 year old from Palmeiras or Santos that will only be a squad player. The player will stay put for another couple of years benefitting that club and competition. Like I said less money doesn't mean there is less talent but it could mean the talent is more evenly spread out. Yes Everton and Villa will still play their top earners more than Celtic or Rangers but maybe sitting on a bench at Southampton or Leicester becomes less ludicrous than staying at Celtic or Rangers a few years longer as one of the top earners.
If English football existed in isolation then yes, less money would make no difference as the footballers aren't going to change jobs. But English football doesn't exist in isolation. There is Brazilian, Ukrainian, Turkish clubs out there which pay a certain amount. Maybe now instead of Besiktas paying similar money to a midtable Championship club, they pay similar money to a midtable Premier League club. This would be obviously weaken English football.
Instead of Ajax or Benfica paying similar wages to a Championship club they now will pay similar wages to a midtable Premier League club if England is no longer getting huge TV and sponsorship deals on the same scale as they did before.
Less money in the game is a good thing in many ways in my opinion. As you rightly pointed out the Super League clubs will absorb more cash but they won't be absorbing anymore players.
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Saturday 9th April 2022 15:00 Celtic v St Johnstone Scottish Premiership
in Scottish Premiership General Chatter
Posted
Wonder if you would go online and say that about any other minority group in Scotland. Probably not.
Celtic should win hopefully with Kyogo back, but we do drop points at home to bottom 6 teams a few times a season.