Pyramidic

Plenty of time over the next couple of months to continue to work on fine-tuning the incredible re-structuring that is taking place.

I find it rather difficult to comment on the Tayside issue at the moment given that the situation appears quite fluid. To be honest all I want to see is the issue resolved and Tayside clubs playing Senior football in the Pyramid. This can be as a Tayside Senior League, a combined North of Scotland / Grampian League or absorption into the EOSFL. Where I do feel strongly is that if we are to continue to use the existing HL / LL Tay boundary, Scone Thistle and Tayport are south of that boundary, and these two affected clubs must compete in the EOSFL. There should be no exception in my view. It would not be fair on the West Lothian clubs who want to play in the WOSFL. I also feel that the NRJFA clubs have been dragging their heals on Pyramid alignment - a matter that should have already been ratified and delivered. Perhaps it would concentrate minds if the Tayside clubs start initiating the formation of a joint Senior League. Revolution and change is in the air. Really interesting to see the emerging changes and whether the delivery of a workable solution is achieved.

Agreed. The other key factor is that there were helpful and experienced administrators with the LL / EOSFL that helped facilitate the process. If the same people help the Tayside clubs there would be every hope of a satisfactory and successful outcome. Probably a “big ask”.

A couple of weeks ago parkcircus indicated that there were 14 clubs (mostly Amateur) that had expressed an interest in joining the WOSFL. I think the interest is there but the problem we all know is identifying a suitable ground or bringing an existing venue up to an appropriate standard. Travelling outside the regular area could be an issue but if a Development Section at Tier 10 was started with two small regionalised conferences (say each with 10 teams) the problem might be addressed at the outset. There are all sorts of permutations that could be followed. New clubs that join from South Ayrshire might eventually “work” with the SOSFL as part of the arrangement for bringing the SOSFL into the fold as a feeder league to the WOSFL.

At the moment any club applying to join the WOSFL will have to meet the following ground criteria: https://wosfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/WOSFL_-Entry-Criteria-2020.pdf This is a “tough ask” for many aspiring Amateur Clubs despite allowing for some concessions that may be agreed by league officials for the opening season. A case can be made for an additional set of “starter” ground criteria that could be set down by the League specifically for clubs entering at say Tier 10 in what effectively would be a Development Division(s). If we look at what happened at Step 7 down south, these are the sort of parameters that could be established (obviously with some strengthening): https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-new/files/get-involved/2020/ground-grading/regional-nls-feeder-league-min-requirements-july-2020.ashx?la=en The link between Amateur Football and the WOSFL can be better facilitated with the creation of a Development Division (or possibly two conferences covering North and South) in which teams can be promoted to Tier 9 if they finish in a promotion place and can meet the standard ground grading criteria. This in my view is how progression may take place - a Development Division for Amateur and Youth set-ups - where clubs can be “incubated” to progress to the higher more demanding semi-professional level.

I was just being flippant!

No reference to the WOSFL in these rules. Clydebank's promotion hopes scuttled?

Picked it up on the EOSFL Twitter!

Sound words!

I think that the position of the SOSFL will eventually resolve itself by the SOSFL clubs themselves wanting a pathway into the WOSFL rather than continuing with a “fantasy link” into the LL where clubs would soon overreach themselves if a SOSFL club ever got promoted through a playoff system. The divergence in standards between the LL and SOSFL is likely to become a bridge too far. The other interesting aspect is the destination chosen by clubs like Gretna and Dalbeattie if they get relegated from the LL. Competitive football in the WOSFL Premier or languishing in the idyllic backwaters of the SOSFL. Not an easy choice. In the meantime it should be business as normal for the SOSFL in my opinion.

These comments that I made another thread are also relevant here. It does make a lot of sense incorporating the name of the town or settlement in the club title. I think that we will see more Youth set-ups applying to the EOSFL and WOSFL. They are very different from the general football model. Most will trace their origins to a few dads that wanted to establish a Youth side for their sons. One team subsequently grew into two teams and the club then begins to mushroom and we have say 20 or 30 teams or perhaps more. Money can be raised with enthusiastic mothers an fathers. Sponsors arrive from all sorts of directions. Grants are available from local councils and other funding bodies. The club becomes recognised as a community service. The downside arrives when players are 16 or 18 and the more talented ones migrate to Junior/Senior clubs. A few may remain with the club and progress into Men’s amateur football. It is natural for those administering the club to consider at some stage creating a pathway to Senior football. This can be achieved with a partnership with a Senior club or by taking the difficult route of applying to the EOSFL or WOSFL and upgrading facilities as appropriate. In most cases the level of support for a newly created Senior side is likely to be very poor at the outset. Interested family members and a few youngsters who play for youth sides is probably the most that can be expected to attend games. However, providing that players are not paid it does not really matter. It may be possible to bring in older more experienced amateur players to swell the ranks but there is always the possibility of a clash of cultures. A Youth club following the Senior route can over time have built up a lot of assets from grants and membership/monthly fees (say 700 players paying say £25 annual membership and £20 monthly training/match fees). Some money may be left over for important development projects! Then add the fund raising and sponsorship elements. Whilst some youth set-ups will struggle others will not. The point I am making is that the funding model (assuming it works successfully) is very different for a Youth club that moves to Senior football. It will not work if the club is simply going to rely on its local support base in terms of matchday attendances. A successful Youth club who establishes a Senior side in my view represents a positive element for the future of the EOSFL and WOSFL . However, it does need to be carefully assessed by the respective league officials to make sure that league criteria can be properly met and the applicants proposals are truly sustainable.

It does make a lot of sense incorporating the name of the town or settlement in the club title. I think that we will see more Youth set-ups applying to the EOSFL and WOSFL. They are very different from the general football model. Most will trace their origins to a few dads that wanted to establish a Youth side for their sons. One team subsequently grew into two teams and the club then begins to mushroom and we have say 20 or 30 teams or perhaps more. Money can be raised with enthusiastic mothers an fathers. Sponsors arrive from all sorts of directions. Grants are available from local councils and other funding bodies. The club becomes recognised as a community service. The downside arrives when players are 16 or 18 and the more talented ones migrate to Junior/Senior clubs. A few may remain with the club and progress into Men’s amateur football. It is natural for those administering the club to consider at some stage creating a pathway to Senior football. This can be achieved with a partnership with a Senior club or by taking the difficult route of applying to the EOSFL or WOSFL and upgrading facilities as appropriate. In most cases the level of support for a newly created Senior side is likely to be very poor at the outset. Interested family members and a few youngsters who play for youth sides is probably the most that can be expected to attend games. However, providing that players are not paid it does not really matter. It may be possible to bring in older more experienced amateur players to swell the ranks but there is always the possibility of a clash of cultures. A Youth club following the Senior route can over time have built up a lot of assets from grants and membership/monthly fees (say 700 players paying say £25 annual membership and £20 monthly training/match fees). Some money may be left over for important development projects! Then add the fund raising and sponsorship elements. Whilst some youth set-ups will struggle others will not. The point I am making is that the funding model (assuming it works successfully) is very different for a Youth club that moves to Senior football. It will not work if the club is simply going to rely on its local support base in terms of matchday attendances. A successful Youth club who establishes a Senior side in my view represents a positive element for the future of the EOSFL and WOSFL . However, it does need to be carefully assessed by the respective league officials to make sure that league criteria can be properly met and the applicants proposals are truly sustainable.

On the plus side it perhaps would get rid of the bottlenecks. On the minus side it basically just reconfigures the EOSFL Premier and WOSFL Premier and dilutes the EOSFL and WOSFL as flagship competitions. Not sure that those administering the EOSFL and WOSFL would wish to see their competitions diluted just to accommodate weaker clubs in LL that inevitably will be dropping down the Pyramid in the near future.

Earlier in the thread I suggested that these two clubs may have been among the outfits that have made enquiries to join the WOSFL. Parkcircus indicated that the two clubs were not among the 14 clubs. We know that a lot of Amateur Clubs have made enquiries and there are suggestions that a bottom tier division may be formed. A key question now would be the conversion rate of enquiries to successful applications? Would there be enough clubs to form an additional division? We should know the number of applicants by the end of the month.

The possible integration of the SOS as a feeder to the WOS is in my view a relevant issue. The inclusion of the Argyll clubs might be achievable if Tier 10 is regionalised.

A few more images of Holm Park covering accessibility.

This time last year we were hearing of club after club announcing that they were leaving the WRJFA for the WOSFL before we reached a grand total of 63 clubs + 4 other clubs. This season there is a deathly silence with just a few murmurs that a cohort of Amateur Clubs will be applying to join the WOSFL. But the only firm applications to date appear to be from: * Kilbride Thistle * Harthill Royal In contast in the EOSFL we are almost into double figures with those clubs seeking to move to the East of Scotland. Just wondering why there is so little Twitter / Facebook activity on prospective WOSFL applicants and above all why we are currently devoid of any rumours? Will they come?

Go cap in hand to the SOSFL?

Any news on the position of Scone Thistle, Marten? With Letham FC probably joining Jeanfield Swifts, Luncarty and Kinnoull in the EOSFL, Scone will be left "out on a limb" in a Tayside League

Whilst I am a little disappointed that Harthill have not applied to the EOSFL, I wish them every success as a Senior club in the WOSFL.

This thread is moving away from my starter topic and in response I have amended my opening statement in the first thread to include the following: "This thread is evolving into covering a number of important issues relating to how the WOSFL may progress and develop. These include: 1. The structure of the WOSFL Pyramid and place within the National Pyramid. 2. The number (and type) of clubs that should be accommodated in the WOSFL. 3. Ground criteria that should be adopted for clubs in the WOSFL (with variations at different tiers). 4. Linkage between WOSFL and Amateur Leagues. 5. Meeting the challenges of social media. 6. Respecting diversity and inclusion in terms of race, age, gender, language, beliefs, sexual orientation and style of communication. 7. Helping facilitate the progression of clubs in the West of Scotland in terms of advice and support. 8. Discussing and communicating any other issue which is relevant to the development of the WOSFL."

Letham appear to have had a good record in the Perthshire Amateur League over the last 20 years. Champions on 11 occasions. 1999-00 Letham 2000-01 Bridgeton United 2001-02 Alyth 2002-03 Murray Royal Hospital 2003-04 Balmoral United 2004-05 Letham 2005-06 Breadalbane 2006-07 Balmoral United 2007-08 Letham 2008-09 Letham 2009-10 Ballinluig 2010-11 Balmoral United 2011-12 Balmoral United 2012-13 Letham 2013-14 Letham 2014-15 Letham 2015-16 Letham 2016-17 Letham 2017-18 Letham 2018-19 Letham 2019-20 unfinished Source: http://sfha.org.uk/perthshireleague.htm

Another option for an aspiring Amateur or Youth set-up with hopes of joining the WOSFL before the “entry doors” become more restricted is to upgrade a former Junior ground. Some of the possible venues are listed on the excellent Non League Scotland website: https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/lostindex.htm

I raised the issue in the context of the Letham FC application to the EOSFL. Personally I am not a fan of 3G/4G venues but like it or not they are part of the football landscape. I would much prefer to see old grounds brought back into use: Ballingry Rovers - https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/ballingry.htm Bonnybridge - https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/bonnybridge.htm Steelend Victoria - https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/steelend.htm Others are listed at - https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/lostindex.htm Trying to provide a helpful hint to any aspiring Amateur or Youth set-up in Fife etc.

I only asked a question. I have not been to many of the 3G grounds. It would be helpful to know if any of the venues have some potential.