[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

On 15/02/2021 at 13:40, Pyramidic said:

An important meeting on 1st March:

 

February 15, 2021

Special General Meeting

West of Scotland Football League hereafter referred to as WoSFL.

Scottish Lowland Football League hereafter referred to as SLFL.

Special General Meeting hereafter referred to as SGM.

Interim Management Group hereafter referred to as IMG.

I have received an application signed by 10 clubs requesting a SGMin accordance with the current Constitution and Rules. 

6.6 Special General Meetings

6.6.1 Member Clubs shall have power to call a Special General Meeting. A Special General Meeting will be called on receipt of a requisition signed by ten Full Member Clubs within fourteen days after such requisition has been received. The requisition must state the business for which the meeting is called and this is the only business that can be concluded at the Special General Meeting concerned. Each Full Member Club whose subscription for the current season has been paid shall be entitled to send two representatives to all Special General Meetings.

That SGM will take place on Monday 1^st March 2021 at 7PM and will be by Zoom due to the Covid restrictions.

Business of the meeting.

1) Proposals to alter the Constitution and Rules of the WoSFL.

2) Election of Management Board to facilitate handover from SLFL.

3) Election of representatives to the Scottish FA Non Professional Game Board and the Scottish FA Congress.

History and purpose behind the 3 items on the agenda.

The WoSFL was set up by the SLFL in 2020 and the Constitution and Rules was set up to allow administration of the League. People from within the membership were co-opted onto a sub-committee of the SLFL to look after that administration. In line with the constitution, I was also co-opted as a neutral to take up the position of Secretary.

Dave McKenna was appointed as Chair and Andrew Waddell was appointed as Treasurer.

That sub-committee took up the name of Interim Management Group of the WoSFL.

4 Governance

4.1 The governance and business of the League will rest with the Board of the Scottish Lowland Football League until such time as the Board and Office Bearers are elected, no later than March 2021.

In accordance with the above Rule the SLFL are handing over Governance to the WoSFL membership and the SGM has been called to facilitate the handover. During their time of administration of the WoSFL the IMG have identified that certain rules within the Constitution and Rules would not suit the needs of the WoSFL and would hamper the progress of the League. We have 67 clubs in membership and that looks likely to increase. We believe that the WoSFL would be better served by 3 secretaries rather than just 1 and therefore propose that we should have a General Secretary, a Discipline Secretary and a Fixture Secretary. We also appreciate that finding the right people to fulfil the Office Bearer roles of the 3 Secretaries and a Treasurer that are not already connected to a member club and are unwilling to give up their role with their club would be nigh on impossible, so we are also proposing that these roles are open to anyone as long as they are proposed and seconded by member clubs. In all likelihood the people with the knowledge and experience required will be with a club so we need the Constitution and Rules altered to allow us to elect the right people for the roles.

The proposed changes have been attached to the message sent to the Club Secretaries and can also be found on the Club Admin Site.

The second item on the agenda will be to form the Management Board of the WoSFL.

Anyone interested in any of the positions on the Board (Chair, Vice-Chair, General Secretary, Discipline Secretary, Fixture Secretary, Treasurer or Club Representative) should fill in the form to be found on the website. It can be found here – West of Scotland Football League (wosfl.co.uk) under Join the WOSFL. 

Apply for the WOSFL Board (google.com)

The closing date and time for applications is Monday 22^nd February 2021 at 8PM.

The applications will then be processed and put forward for the SGM.

A full agenda with the proposals, candidates and procedure will be sent out with the invite to the meeting to all club secretaries prior to the meeting.

The third item will be to elect representatives from the new Board to the Scottish FA Non Professional Game Board and the Scottish FA Congress. 

The SGM will be closed following the election of the Board and a General Meeting will then take place to allow discussion on a few topics that need addressed.

Kennie Young

Secretary

IMG of PDM Buildbase WoSFL

Tomorrow night - Monday 1st March - the WOSFL SGM is being held. In my view it is essential that the administrative boundary of the League is addressed in the Constitution.

This will be covered in:

“Business of the meeting.

1) Proposals to alter the Constitution and Rules of the WoSFL.”

Clubs should have already received copies of the Proposed Constitution which will be considered at the Zoom meeting.

My key questions are:

1. Does the Proposed Constitution define the administrative boundary of the league?

2. If NO, should this key issue have been addressed?

3. If YES, is West Lothian within or outwith the administrative boundary covered by the league?

The point that I am making is that if the league’s administrative boundary is not covered and resolved at the SGM the West Lothian issue is likely to fester and grow. 

The position may be taken by the interim league management that this issue will be addressed after league officials are elected and discussions have taken place with the EOSFL and SOSFL over the next month or so. While this may appear a sensible and logical way forward it is going to leave the West Lothian issue wide open to further speculation and unrest until the position is ratified at the League AGM.

West Lothian clubs and others may be left sitting on the fence wondering whether their respective futures lie in the West or the East. Then there are the wider implications for the Tayside clubs.

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

Would the WOSFL be pressured into accepting Colts sides if offered a pot full of gold? Money does talk.

 

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

8 hours ago, Dev said:

I see that Harthill's position has the possibility of leaving them without a place in a senior league. If a boundary is formed between the WoS and the EoS why on earth would it be draw with an indent into West Lothian allowing any particular club to go to the WoS?

After all the Wos is not the Central Scotland League. Some Central Scottish clubs go east and others west depending upon the traditional county boundary. Simples.

Agreed. They would perhaps be left in the position of having to submit an emergency application to the SOSFL who have a later deadline for applications. But if the SOSFL have also accepted the principle of “newly defined” administrative areas, Harthill would be left in void.

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

4 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

agree and understand common sense but as we are both in agreement every view would be settled with official definitive boundaries.

I'm a bit different, (view has changed)  I don't mind a midland league but I'm now swinging more to seeing it in at Tier 6 just below the HL and hopefully a another HL feeder meaning over the years the HL will change with about half or more from the feeder league moving up, so if there's a team relegated from the HL that is traditionally Highland, say Dingwall are, then they would go into a new HL feeder and any team from the Midland area who eventually promoted to the HL then if relegated moves to the Midland league.
The midlands will have quite a few strong teams north of the Tay so thats why Id rather see them in the Highland and due to their location and think it would even it up a bit

This would mean
Tier 5  Highland League
Tier 6 Highlands League - Midlands League

Would you recognise Tayport as being within the Midland League or EOSFL administrative area? If we say Tayport, Newburgh, St Andrews etc would be in the ML it becomes more messy. There are some really difficult issues to resolve. There is not an easy solution.

[East Region Juniors]

Those of us that regularly visit P&B pick up certain vibes and I can now see a very interesting scenario developing which relates to the East Region clubs and the way that the WOSFL / EOSFL boundary issue is handled.

The EOSFL in my view has always been a very progressive league and has allowed clubs outwith its main catchment area to participate in the league. We have seen clubs from the South of Scotland play in the EOSFL including Annan Athletic, Dalbeattie Star, Threave Rovers and Gretna 2008. We have recently seen a place offered to Clydebank that was not taken up. The administrative boundaries of the league has remained flexible which allowed such moves.

A situation has arisen in the context of the West Lothian clubs where the EOSFL boundary would not be flexible but would be fixed. This would represent a major shift in policy. There would appear to be two options that can be followed:


Fixed Boundary:

This would define the WOSFL/ EOSFL boundary. The expectation is that West Lothian would be within the EOSFL catchment area. Justification would be on the basis of history using the same boundary that defined the West Region and East Region of the Junior grade. Clubs like Armadale Thistle, Bathgate Thistle, Fauldhouse United, Livingston United, Pumpherston Juniors, Stoneyburn Juniors, West Calder United and Whitburn Juniors would all be included in the administrative area of the EOSFL. Harthill Royal might be treated as an exception / anomaly given their geographical position.

At the same time the Tayside / EOSFL boundary would also need to be fixed for Tier 6 and below. The delineation of the boundary using the existing LL / HL Tay definition would allow Scone Thistle and Tayport to join the EOSFL. The rest of the 15 Tayside clubs that are located north of the Tay boundary would be outwith the EOSFL administrative area and would not qualify for inclusion in the East of Scotland under any circumstances.

If the above boundaries are being sorted out it will also become necessary to address the EOSFL /  SOSFL boundary and the WOSFL/ SOSFL boundary in order to ensure a consistent approach. This is where the Fixed Boundary position becomes more confusing and possibly could hamper the future development and progression of clubs that fall within the SOSFL administrative area.


Flexible Boundary:

This approach enables clubs to choose what league they prefer to participate in and their acceptance would be dependent on the votes cast by existing members.

This approach would mean that the West Lothian clubs can apply to either the EOSFL or WOSFL (or for that matter the SOSFL).

The approach would provide a “mix and match” formula that avoids hard boundaries. The approach may sound a little odd but has been consistently followed by the EOSFL and SOSFL.

The approach would mean that the Tay boundary can be challenged by the the 15 Tayside clubs north of the Tay who can make a case either as a group or individually for membership of the EOSFL.


The Crossroads:

I believe that we are currently in a fascinating position witnessing the latest episode how Non League / Semi-Professional football is going to evolve over the next couple of months.

1. If Fixed Boundaries are established we are likely to see the West Lothian clubs participating in the EOSFL along with possibly Scone Thistle and Tayport. The 15 Tayside clubs north of the Tay will be excluded. The administrative area of the EOSFL will of course need to be subject to the final approval of member clubs. I suppose that ratification would also be necessary by the WOSFL and SOSFL for their respective administrative areas.

2. If Flexible Boundaries are retained it will enable the West Lothian clubs to apply (successfully?) to the WOSFL. It also opens the doors for the 17 Tayside clubs to apply as a group and individually to join the EOSFL. Such a movement of clubs would of course be dependent on the willingness of the existing membership to accept the influx. 

3. The inclusion of the Tayside clubs is a challenging issue that brings both positive and negative aspects. It also introduces the need for regionalisation rather than a “tower“ pyramid.

4. In my book if the West Lothian clubs are allowed to join the WOSFL there is every justification for the Tayside clubs to make a case for inclusion within the the EOSFL in order to avoid being left in the equivalent of the “badlands” which Senior football is reluctant to settle.


NB: I hope that I have interpreted the “smoke signals” correctly!

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

Those of us that regularly visit P&B pick up certain vibes and I can now see a very interesting scenario developing which relates to the East Region clubs and the way that the WOSFL / EOSFL boundary issue is handled.

The EOSFL in my view has always been a very progressive league and has allowed clubs outwith its main catchment area to participate in the league. We have seen clubs from the South of Scotland play in the EOSFL including Annan Athletic, Dalbeattie Star, Threave Rovers and Gretna 2008. We have recently seen a place offered to Clydebank that was not taken up. The administrative boundaries of the league has remained flexible which allowed such moves.

A situation has arisen in the context of the West Lothian clubs where the EOSFL boundary would not be flexible but would be fixed. This would represent a major shift in policy. There would appear to be two options that can be followed:


Fixed Boundary:

This would define the WOSFL/ EOSFL boundary. The expectation is that West Lothian would be within the EOSFL catchment area. Justification would be on the basis of history using the same boundary that defined the West Region and East Region of the Junior grade. Clubs like Armadale Thistle, Bathgate Thistle, Fauldhouse United, Livingston United, Pumpherston Juniors, Stoneyburn Juniors, West Calder United and Whitburn Juniors would all be included in the administrative area of the EOSFL. Harthill Royal might be treated as an exception / anomaly given their geographical position.

At the same time the Tayside / EOSFL boundary would also need to be fixed for Tier 6 and below. The delineation of the boundary using the existing LL / HL Tay definition would allow Scone Thistle and Tayport to join the EOSFL. The rest of the 15 Tayside clubs that are located north of the Tay boundary would be outwith the EOSFL administrative area and would not qualify for inclusion in the East of Scotland under any circumstances.

If the above boundaries are being sorted out it will also become necessary to address the EOSFL /  SOSFL boundary and the WOSFL/ SOSFL boundary in order to ensure a consistent approach. This is where the Fixed Boundary position becomes more confusing and possibly could hamper the future development and progression of clubs that fall within the SOSFL administrative area.


Flexible Boundary:

This approach enables clubs to choose what league they prefer to participate in and their acceptance would be dependent on the votes cast by existing members.

This approach would mean that the West Lothian clubs can apply to either the EOSFL or WOSFL (or for that matter the SOSFL).

The approach would provide a “mix and match” formula that avoids hard boundaries. The approach may sound a little odd but has been consistently followed by the EOSFL and SOSFL.

The approach would mean that the Tay boundary can be challenged by the the 15 Tayside clubs north of the Tay who can make a case either as a group or individually for membership of the EOSFL.


The Crossroads:

I believe that we are currently in a fascinating position witnessing the latest episode how Non League / Semi-Professional football is going to evolve over the next couple of months.

1. If Fixed Boundaries are established we are likely to see the West Lothian clubs participating in the EOSFL along with possibly Scone Thistle and Tayport. The 15 Tayside clubs north of the Tay will be excluded. The administrative area of the EOSFL will of course need to be subject to the final approval of member clubs. I suppose that ratification would also be necessary by the WOSFL and SOSFL for their respective administrative areas.

2. If Flexible Boundaries are retained it will enable the West Lothian clubs to apply (successfully?) to the WOSFL. It also opens the doors for the 17 Tayside clubs to apply as a group and individually to join the EOSFL. Such a movement of clubs would of course be dependent on the willingness of the existing membership to accept the influx. 

3. The inclusion of the Tayside clubs is a challenging issue that brings both positive and negative aspects. It also introduces the need for regionalisation rather than a “tower“ pyramid.

4. In my book if the West Lothian clubs are allowed to join the WOSFL there is every justification for the Tayside clubs to make a case for inclusion within the the EOSFL in order to avoid being left in the equivalent of the “badlands” which Senior football is reluctant to settle.


NB: I hope that I have interpreted the “smoke signals” correctly!

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

Those of us that regularly visit P&B pick up certain vibes and I can now see a very interesting scenario developing which relates to the East Region clubs and the way that the WOSFL / EOSFL boundary issue is handled.

The EOSFL in my view has always been a very progressive league and has allowed clubs outwith its main catchment area to participate in the league. We have seen clubs from the South of Scotland play in the EOSFL including Annan Athletic, Dalbeattie Star, Threave Rovers and Gretna 2008. We have recently seen a place offered to Clydebank that was not taken up. The administrative boundaries of the league has remained flexible which allowed such moves.

A situation has arisen in the context of the West Lothian clubs where the EOSFL boundary would not be flexible but would be fixed. This would represent a major shift in policy. There would appear to be two options that can be followed:


Fixed Boundary:

This would define the WOSFL/ EOSFL boundary. The expectation is that West Lothian would be within the EOSFL catchment area. Justification would be on the basis of history using the same boundary that defined the West Region and East Region of the Junior grade. Clubs like Armadale Thistle, Bathgate Thistle, Fauldhouse United, Livingston United, Pumpherston Juniors, Stoneyburn Juniors, West Calder United and Whitburn Juniors would all be included in the administrative area of the EOSFL. Harthill Royal might be treated as an exception / anomaly given their geographical position.

At the same time the Tayside / EOSFL boundary would also need to be fixed for Tier 6 and below. The delineation of the boundary using the existing LL / HL Tay definition would allow Scone Thistle and Tayport to join the EOSFL. The rest of the 15 Tayside clubs that are located north of the Tay boundary would be outwith the EOSFL administrative area and would not qualify for inclusion in the East of Scotland under any circumstances.

If the above boundaries are being sorted out it will also become necessary to address the EOSFL /  SOSFL boundary and the WOSFL/ SOSFL boundary in order to ensure a consistent approach. This is where the Fixed Boundary position becomes more confusing and possibly could hamper the future development and progression of clubs that fall within the SOSFL administrative area.


Flexible Boundary:

This approach enables clubs to choose what league they prefer to participate in and their acceptance would be dependent on the votes cast by existing members.

This approach would mean that the West Lothian clubs can apply to either the EOSFL or WOSFL (or for that matter the SOSFL).

The approach would provide a “mix and match” formula that avoids hard boundaries. The approach may sound a little odd but has been consistently followed by the EOSFL and SOSFL.

The approach would mean that the Tay boundary can be challenged by the the 15 Tayside clubs north of the Tay who can make a case either as a group or individually for membership of the EOSFL.


The Crossroads:

I believe that we are currently in a fascinating position witnessing the latest episode how Non League / Semi-Professional football is going to evolve over the next couple of months.

1. If Fixed Boundaries are established we are likely to see the West Lothian clubs participating in the EOSFL along with possibly Scone Thistle and Tayport. The 15 Tayside clubs north of the Tay will be excluded. The administrative area of the EOSFL will of course need to be subject to the final approval of member clubs. I suppose that ratification would also be necessary by the WOSFL and SOSFL for their respective administrative areas.

2. If Flexible Boundaries are retained it will enable the West Lothian clubs to apply (successfully?) to the WOSFL. It also opens the doors for the 17 Tayside clubs to apply as a group and individually to join the EOSFL. Such a movement of clubs would of course be dependent on the willingness of the existing membership to accept the influx. 

3. The inclusion of the Tayside clubs is a challenging issue that brings both positive and negative aspects. It also introduces the need for regionalisation rather than a “tower“ pyramid.

4. In my book if the West Lothian clubs are allowed to join the WOSFL there is every justification for the Tayside clubs to make a case for inclusion within the the EOSFL in order to avoid being left in the equivalent of the “badlands” which Senior football is reluctant to settle.


NB: I hope that I have interpreted the “smoke signals” correctly!

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

If the WOSFL  accept say 12-16 new clubs for the 2021/22 season one can expect the following format:

Format 2021/22

Premier Division - 20 clubs

Division One - 3 conferences

Conference A - 16 clubs
Conference B - 16 clubs
Conference C - 15 clubs

New Clubs Division - 12-16 clubs

Format 2022/23

Premier Division - 16 clubs

Division One - 16 clubs

Division Two - 16 clubs

Division Three - 16 clubs

Division Four - Conferences?

Made up of bottom 3 clubs from 2021/22 Conferences
+ 12-16 clubs in New Clubs Division
+ new amateur and youth applicants

From this example clubs like Armadale and Bathgate would be at the very bottom of the Pyramid tree in 2022/23 playing at Tier 10 (or Tier 9 if they won the New Clubs Division?).

If they moved to the EOSFL instead they would be playing at Tier 7 or Tier 8. It should be a no brainer choosing whether to follow the WOSFL route or the EOSFL pathway.

EOSFL is clearly the most desirable and practical option for the West Lothian clubs to follow if they can only forgive the Junior exodus.

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

3 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

What clubs are going to apply to join the EOSFL before the end of March closing date? This is my current take on the position.

Certainties

Livingston United
Pumpherston Juniors

Strong Possibilities

Bo'ness United Juniors (renamed)
Cupar Hearts / AM Soccer
Syngenta
Tayport

Out of catchment applicants
Broughty Athletic
Carnoustie Panmure
Lochee United

Dual Applicants EOSFL/WOSFL

Armadale Thistle
Bathgate Thistle
Fauldhouse United
Stoneyburn Juniors
West Calder United
Whitburn Juniors

Unlikely

Harthill Royal
Linlithgow Rose Community (renamed)
Sauchie Community (renamed)
Scone Thistle

Perhaps in the future

Bredalbane (Aberfeldy)
Duns
Kelso
Selkirk

If the EOSFL accept say 12 new clubs for the 2021/22 season one can expect either of the following formats:

Option A:

Premier Division - 18 clubs

Division One - 3 conferences

Conference A - 15 clubs
Conference B - 14 clubs
Conference C - 14 clubs

Option B:

Premier Division - 16 clubs

Division One - 16 clubs

Division Two - 2 conferences

Conference A - 15 clubs
Conference B - 14 clubs

Either option looks pretty exciting to me for a prospective applicant.

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

10 minutes ago, Rockall said:

Doesn't sound like it's untrue going by the above. What i was getting at is nothing has been ratified for the next season, and until that happens who knows what it'll look like. 

With the WoS only having an interim board at the moment, and any decisions about the shape of EoS still to happen, it makes it tricky for clubs to know what to do especially with the deadline for applications only 30 odd days away. 

 

Sensible move for any West Lothian club in a quandary is to apply to both the WOSFL and the EOSFL. This will ensure that they have a league to play in next season. The boundary issue one way or the other will be sorted out by the respective leagues in due course.

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

What clubs are going to apply to join the EOSFL before the end of March closing date? This is my current take on the position.

Certainties

Livingston United
Pumpherston Juniors

Strong Possibilities

Bo'ness United Juniors (renamed)
Cupar Hearts / AM Soccer
Syngenta
Tayport

Out of catchment applicants
Broughty Athletic
Carnoustie Panmure
Lochee United

Dual Applicants EOSFL/WOSFL

Armadale Thistle
Bathgate Thistle
Fauldhouse United
Stoneyburn Juniors
West Calder United
Whitburn Juniors

Unlikely

Harthill Royal
Linlithgow Rose Community (renamed)
Sauchie Community (renamed)
Scone Thistle

Perhaps in the future

Bredalbane (Aberfeldy)
Duns
Kelso
Selkirk

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

15 minutes ago, buloyal said:

I remember sitting in the meeting the club called for members and invited the boy Oliver in to discuss intentions with the club. I remember the question what if Boness wanted to move back to junior and the answer was the junior team would disband or go back amateur, then he was asked what if you got to a situation that you were wanting to go to the EOS league and again they said they we’re only interested in bringing a junior team back to Boness and being a pathway from kids to senior. Talk about rebranding and moving to the EOS League if true and not a rumour is simply a slap in the face to the members of the senior club, and to be brutal about it dishonest. There is no way on this planet a town the size of Boness could sustain two “senior” clubs. 
im sure it’s probably only a rumour and has no substance 

Perhaps there is some room for BUJFC (or whatever title they use) to act as a sort of informal feeder / development club to BUFC. Given the difference in levels the two clubs would not be in direct competition. Young players that perform well with BUJFC might eventually progress to the LL with BUFC. The two clubs obviously need to communicate - there could be mutual benefits for both clubs.

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

So they want to come in on their terms?

Perhaps retaining membership of the SJFA and entry into the Junior Cup is the other requirement.

[East Region Juniors]

3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

1. The Highland League signed up for the pyramid with the expectation of clubs from Dundee northwards could soon end up in the league from above and below. They've never walked that back publicly.

Correct!

New pyramid system for Highland League  - The Press and Journal: June 5, 2014

The landscape of Scottish football has been redrawn and senior clubs from Angus will play in the Highland League if they are relegated from League 2 from next season.

Montrose, Arbroath, Brechin City and Forfar Athletic will join clubs based from Aberdeen to Wick if they lose their league place when the relegation play-off comes into effect.

Only Wick Academy and Clach meet the current criteria for admission to the SPFL.

But the prospect of Wick making a 500-mile round-trip to play a Highland League fixture could become a reality after the geographical line was drawn at Dundee, either side of the River Tay.

New Wick chairman James Innes said: “If any of the Angus clubs join the Highland League we would just have to accept it and make them welcome.

“We are used to long journeys, as are Brora Rangers, but I would hope it would only be a once a season trip.

“We drew 4-4 against Brechin in the Scottish Cup in 2009 at Harmsworth Park and the replay the following Saturday was postponed when we were half an hour from Glebe Park.

“We had to go down the following Tuesday night and unfortunately we lost the tie 4-2.”

The Gable Endies, who finished sixth last season, will be joined in League 2 next season by Arbroath after their relegation and former Highland League club Elgin City, who finished eighth.

The other seven clubs in League 2 would join the Lowland League if they finished bottom and lost the play-off.

Should they meet the promotion criteria, the Highland League champions would meet the winner of the Lowland League with the victor facing the club which finishes bottom of League 2 to decide which club would play in the fourth tier in the following campaign.

Highland League president Finlay Noble, pictured,who along with secretary John Grant was instrumental in rewriting his league’s constitution, said: “On January 31 each season, the clubs in contention must make an application to join the SPFL.

“Should their title challenge falter by March 31 the clubs would be permitted to withdraw their application.

“If a team won the league and did not meet the specific SPFL criteria, they would not be permitted to take part in the play-offs.

“Clach and Wick Academy are the only clubs in the league who currently hold the required bronze level standard.

“The requirements range from the quality of the floodlights to the provision of club doctors and physiotherapists.”

He added: “In addition, if in the future any of the Tayside junior clubs such as Lochee United or Broughty Athletic wanted to go down the route of getting full membership and club licensing, and become involved in the pyramid-system, they would also apply to come into the Highland League.”

In another change to the competition rules Highland League clubs will also be permitted to name seven substitutes for matches next season.

Source: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/highland-league/245852/new-pyramid-system-for-highland-league/

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

37 minutes ago, stanley said:

"“Up and coming clubs wanting to play at a higher level is understandable and should be encouraged but not if their ambitions are fuelled by nothing other than delusions of grandeur."

Sums up the negative attitudes really. 

Perhaps if we give Billy some slack - we all miss our football and there is a tendency to become a bit more negative than normal in our outlook during Lockdown!

However, surely joining the WoSFL is all about forging stronger links with the community. Perhaps the real issue for Billy and his associates is that Glasgow Perthshire does not have a social club at Keppoch Park, Ashfield Street. This means they have no sustainable income stream and could well be struggling in terms of social contact with the community.

https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/glasgowperthshire.htm

The old social club some 2 miles away at Springburn Road has been demolished.

I hope that most of the new applicants to the WOSFL have their own social facilities or the prospect of developing a sustainable clubhouse.

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

‘We should have stayed in the Juniors': Billy Adams on the WoSFL set-up

WoSFL clubs, saying it’s laughable for many to be labelled as “professional”.

Reckoned to be the longest-serving manager at lower league level by some way, Billy has crammed in almost 25 years at the helm of famous old Possil outfit Glasgow Perthshire, currently languishing fourth from bottom of the Conference C pile with just four points yielded up from a mere handful of fixtures. 

His refusal to throw in the towel on a possible restart for his side’s league campaign saw him carrying out maintenance works on Keppoch Park’s playing surface and dressing rooms yesterday afternoon however his labours did not prevent him delivering a withering critique on the Shire’s experiences within the new set-up.

He slammed: “No doubt I’ll be accused of being a dinosaur in some quarters but I make no apologies for being old-school and thinking a lot of clubs like ours should have stayed as Juniors.

“Football at our level is all about close links forged with local communities and joining the WoSFL was never going to do us any favours in that respect not least because it is a further streamlining of the game to its detriment.

“You only have to look at the increasing number of young players being lost to football nowadays through sheer disillusionment from failing to make the grade at Pro-Youth level to realise it’s a problem set to get a whole lot worse unless a place can be found at the table for another level of the game other than amateurs or professional.

“For longer than even I can remember, the Juniors were that go-between and their role in Scottish  football cannot be underestimated when you think of the countless great players to be reared through its ranks including nine of the Lisbon Lions.

“Glasgow Perthshire’s move away was motivated by not wanting to be left behind at the start of last season but we will never forget our roots.”

Billy’s words might be seen to carry more weight in light of recent announcements indicating as many as 12 long-established amateur sides have declared expressions of interest for joining the WoSFL next season.

Said the Shire boss: “Up and coming clubs wanting to play at a higher level is understandable and should be encouraged but not if their ambitions are fuelled by nothing other than delusions of grandeur.

“Having an enclosed stadium instead of a public park in everything but name must be one of the pre-requisites for entry and clubs being classified as a professional when they are not paying out wages to their players should be another no-no.

“We simply cannot at the Shire because our income doesn’t allow it and I know of countless other clubs at Conference level (and above) in the same boat so it’s downright embarrassing when the SFA and other bodies term Tiers 6 and 7 as Professional in the same context as they would other part-timers such as Clyde and Albion Rovers.

“And in the bigger picture, the likes of Auchinleck Talbot, Pollok and Clydebank may have designs on graduating up through the leagues but I don’t believe theirs is a dream shared or hoped for by the vast majority of former Junior clubs.

“The prospect of leading the Shire up to face Elgin City on a Wednesday night doesn’t stir any of my juices or that of our loyal band of supporters but a derby match up against an Ashfield, Petershill or St Rochs certainly would.”

Next week’s planned SFA chaired meeting to discuss a possible restart date for lower league clubs has evoked mixed feelings for seasoned gaffer Adams.

He insisted: “I’d probably prefer it didn’t start up again and everyone’s efforts were channelled towards getting next season underway particularly if it means playing through the traditional close-season months as I’ve always believed summer football was the way forward for Junior clubs.

“One of the main arguments against it was holiday arrangements but Glasgow no longer shuts down for the Fair fortnight as it used to do and players nowadays are just as likely to be flying out to Spain or Portugal in mid-November or February as they would July.

Billy revealed: “You’ll most probably guess from my tone that I wasn’t 100% behind our club’s decision to play out this season and it would be true to say I had severe doubts over taking part in games without fans and the use of dressing rooms.

“Back in the SJFA-run days, I can recall several instances when Shire games were postponed on Health and Safety grounds because there was no hot water for showers yet we find ourselves in the farcical situation now when even cold showers are prohibited by coronavirus protocols and players are forced to change outside in all-weathers and travel home in soaking wet strips, on some occasions by public transport.

“It didn’t sit well with me or our club officials however our players voted to give it a go and Glasgow Perthshire as a club didn’t want to run the risk losing some of them if they moved away and signed elsewhere  in order to keep playing.

“I warned the guys about the potential difficulties likely to be faced, particularly in the winter months, but to be fair, not a single complaint has been uttered  and that speaks volumes about their enthusiasm and the togetherness in our camp.”

He added: “Lockdown restrictions have seen us do nothing whatsoever in the past few months and it was before Christmas when we last played a game so it will be like starting all over again (if a restart is given the thumbs up) and I just hope the powers-that-be show a bit of common sense and allow a few weeks at the very least to get the guys in shape”    

Source: https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/19112782.we-stayed-juniors-billy-adams-wosfl-set-up/

[East Region Juniors]

If the West Lothian rump are to be allowed into the WOSFL would this be a gamechanger re the (non) delineation of league boundaries?

Would it allow Lochee and Broughty to have more ammunition to make their case for joining the EOSFL? Would the majority of EOSFL clubs give the Dundee clubs a more sympathetic hearing if it becomes clear that the league boundaries are flexible and the North/South divide does not apply below Tier 5.

The next month or so will be interesting as answers to these questions become clear.

[East Region Juniors]

A starting point might be an online petition that shows the “direction of travel” where the Tayside clubs want to be. At the moment this could be the HL zone of influence or the LL/ EOSFL zone of influence. We do not know.

Until the Tayside clubs decide where they actually want to be, little progress can be made. At the moment another season in the ERJFA beckons. 

Perhaps it is up to Lochee, Broughty or Carnoustie to make the first move and the rest will follow.

[East Region Juniors]

10 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

The same problem is emanating from the Whitburn committee as has always been the problem.....themselves...

We flunked out of joining the Superleague when it was formed,after the 1st season of not being involved,they realised oh shit we've made a mistake here.....

It took us a further 4 seasons before we finally made it into the Superleague,coming close on a couple of occasions to actually winning it.

Then the pyramid became a reality and surprise surprise,the resistance to it from Central park was unbelievable.

The EoS and LL were slated and abused as inferior....

Myself and friends would often get into heated debates in the social club with some of the committee but it was like talking to a brick wall,so stuck in their "staunch" ways it was unbelievable!!

Then one by one more of the East Juniors left,they were branded traitors to the "grade".

Then the WoSFL was set up and they still couldn't see the bigger picture,all they could talk about was local games with local teams,a West Lothian league basically(as Whitburn manager Jamie Sandilands thought was a great idea at the time and depressingly outlined that fact in his podcast with down the divisions recently). 

Give him his due on one part,he did say on the podcast,that he had said recently to the committee that he wanted to see the team playing senior football next season.

Now we have them preferring the WoS over the EoS because of cultural ties.....,dear oh dear

That is the nail on the head,right there,the committee for the most part are L.O.L. or friends off it and surprise surprise are stuck in the past......

The only way they were ever gonna go to the EoS, was and is a last option,due to their hatred of the EoS and some of the teams in it......

 

 

A sad summary. Sounds as though one or two need counselling!

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

8 hours ago, Dev said:

The SJFA had the golden opportunity to take over semi-pro football outside the SPFL in 2012 when it was agreed that the Pyramid should be created but they dodged the responsibility, creating a vacuum, which has since been filled by others. The Juniors have only themselves to blame for destroying "the grade".

By default and irresponsibility the SJFA allowed a situation to fester that has effectively destroyed Junior football with the exception of the outliers in the North and Tayside. In recent times the 4 divisions of the East Region was a fully functioning regional pyramid that so easily could have slotted into a SFA supported National Pyramid. The Pyramid should have been developed by the East Region accepting the few remaining clubs in the EOSFL (at that time) into their fold. The SJFA’s inactions and unwillingness to change with the times represented a complete administrative disaster that created disorder and has effectively destroyed the historic grade.

It is time for our West Lothian friends to raise their heads out of the sand and take in the new football landscape and rejoin their long-standing football family in the East. It is time to make up and forget recent animosities.

[East Region Juniors]

19 minutes ago, Dev said:

Haven't there ben one or two posts from supporters of north Tayside clubs hinting that one or more may apply to the EoS in order to see what happens so that the remaining north Tayside clubs will then know one way or the other if the EoS will accept them/any of them?  If the EoS doesn't accept them then it's decision time about what to do e.g. remain Junior, link up with the North Juniors, form a standalone Pyramid League to feed into the Highland Pyramid etc etc.

There are different ways and permutations that could be followed to address the Tayside issue. The easiest and most obvious would appear to be a stand-alone Pyramid league feeding into the HL as a third strand. But would it be supported by the HL and the Dundee clubs? To date there have been no takers.

Another option might be the Tayside clubs forming a Tier 8 regional division feeding into the EOSFL. With (say) just one promotion place a year available from the division to EOSFL Tier 7, the impact on the EOSFL as a whole would be minimal. However, it would enhance the status of the EOSFL given the arrival of 17 new clubs. It would also ensure that clubs like Eyemouth and Tweedmouth and other lower tier clubs would not have to play Tayside clubs in league encounters.

A workable solution is possible. Tayside would be in the Pyramid but the impact on the EOSFL would be kept to a minimum.

[East Region Juniors]

The other issue is of course the fate of the Tayside clubs that remain outwith the EOSFL heartland. Blairgowrie Junior FC posted the following statement on 5 June 2018 and it is clear that no progress has been made whatsoever over the last two and a half years.

Blairgowrie  Statement

“CLUB STATEMENT re EAST REGION LEAGUE
Many of you will be aware of the current turbulence in the world of Scottish Junior Football. It is important to explain what is going on, and what it will mean for our club.
A survey was carried out by the Scottish Junior FA (SJFA) asking all member clubs  to agree or disagree with the proposal that the SJFA join the relatively new pyramid system within Scottish football. 
We, at Blairgowrie, were in agreement with this, in line with the majority of member clubs. These results gave the SJFA the go ahead to negotiate a place for all member clubs within the SFA pyramid.
However, since these results were made public a large number of our fellow East Region clubs have joined, or have applied to join, the East of Scotland (Senior) League (EoSL). The EoSL already exists within the pyramid with promotion to the Lowland League and eventual promotion to the SPFL 2.  These clubs have done so with the intention of joining the pyramid system in time for the start of next season. There has been no communication from the SJFA regarding any success in negotiating a united pathway to the pyramid for junior clubs. 
We, at Blairgowrie, affirm that we have not applied to join the East of Scotland League, or to leave the juniors' East Region. All of our fellow East Region junior clubs that have applied to join the EoSL, including Jeanfield Swifts, find themselves, geographically, within its catchment area. This extends as far north as the River Tay. Clubs north of the Tay, like Blairgowrie, are in the SFA’s north zone. Currently, there is no similar pathway to the pyramid in this area and so Tayside clubs are unable to make a move such as those made by clubs from Fife, Lothians and others south of the Tay. The Highland League operates within the pyramid system but there is no avenue for promotion into it. 
It is possible that 25 clubs will leave the East Region of the Juniors. A meeting will take place on 12th June to re-organise the remaining  clubs into a new league structure. 
Despite these events, we are working hard to ensure that, whatever league we may find ourselves in, we can meet the challenges that come our way. As ever, we look forward to the continuing support of the people of Blairgowrie.“
 

I think the critical issue is that the Tayside clubs lack leadership to take the bull by the horns and sort the mess out. With no football being played there is probably not a better time to sort out the Tayside conundrum before the 31st March 2021. Zoom meetings are necessary with the key parties - SFA, HL, ERJFA, NRJFA, LL, EOSFL, WOSFL and SOSFL - to properly sort out a route map for Tayside football.

Inaction will result in another year wasted.

[New clubs in the West of Scotland]

Cheers Dev!

 

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

Thanks Dev:

 

[New clubs in the East of Scotland]

Any views on this?