Marlow

1. Harold Wilson by about a hundred million miles: genuinely intelligent, funny and caring man who could identify with ordinary folk and who beat the Tories four times (for which he was absolutely hated and hounded by the media, the rich, the establishment, MI5 loonies, etc). Only Prime Minister in British history who went a year in office without British troops killing anyone or being killed. Kept us out of Vietnam war. Intervened in Northern Ireland for all the right reasons, expanded and funded proper unis with grants that allowed working class kids to go; got rid of death penalty, raised spending on NHS and pensions, decriminalised homosexuality, legislated against racism, got rid of censorship. Pity the rest of the leadership of the Labour Party was made up of backstabbing shits. If the North Sea oil money had sufficiently flowed when he was PM, we might actually live in a genuinely better world. 2. Callaghan. Decent human being from a real background who had lived a genuine life but circumstances were absolutely beyond him. 3. Brown. More or less see above. 4. Blair. Horrible to say a war criminal is still a better PM than the rest, but he was. Last one who actually tried to improve life in the UK. 5. Major. Not totally evil/corrupt/stupid.

No Alans in 86 in our squad. However, in 1990, Alan McInally did fail dismally against Costa Rica, wo with him unavailable in our Alan-free universe, maybe someone more effective would have played up front.

Pub discussion here in Spain over the weekend among us auld boys got us thinking back to the 82 World Cup here and one of the wags said it's a pity everyone with the name Alan got picked because if none of them had ever played, we'd have qualified. His argument was: Jim Leighton in goals for all three games, instead of Alan Rough, would have reduced our goal difference. McLeish and Miller as the central defenders instead of Alan Evans and Alan Hansen would have kept it tighter in the first match (Evans to blame for second New Zealand goal), might have staved off the Brazilians a bit better (not convinced by that one) and worked better against the old USSR in the third. Joe Jordan, for instance, upfront against New Zealand instead of Alan Brazil would have either scored goals or made them for others. What do retrofans think?

I think it was Hansen and Souness, who arrived late at some squad gathering. The rest of the lads had had a drink that evening and they fancied one, too, Gemmill as captain went to Stein's room to ask if it was alright for them to have a beer and that was him finished. I have heard a few times a rumour that Stein had a female friend in the room, too.

No, I wanted them both to play against Iran, Souness for Masson, Gemmill for Rioch. Some folk thought before that World Cup that Souness and Gemmill should have been the key midfield men due to Rioch and Masson being on dismal form that season.

I see your point, I was just comparing them to us letting in 8 goals in 82 with some very famous and successful players. Sometimes soft penalties get awarded, though, that aren't really a team's fault, as well, which I thought made us in Spain come out quite badly from the comparison.

I reckon Jinky could even have run riot against Brazil and or Yugoslavia, too. My old man, who was not a Celtic supporter, spent most of the last two games saying "Bring Johnstone on, bring Johnstone on!" but instead we got Willie Morgan. What is it about Scotland managers not wanting to use our most talented players in World Cups?

It wasn't an easy chance at all, though.

Agree with you on all points, though I think Fergie bottled it in 86 and should have given Cooper more of a chance. Cooper and McAvennie might just have got us something, but instead Graeme Sharp and Steve Archibald were allowed to make their usual contributions. Apparently Cooper's honesty kept him out of the 90 squad: he admitted he would not be fit for the opening match, though he was expected to be ready after that, so wasn't taken. Richard Gough kept quiet about a toe injury, did get taken and only played part of the first game. Mind you, I could see daft bugger Roxburgh not using Cooper, anyway: he also did not take other super skilful players like Strachan and Nicholas.

These initial 40s are interesting, but show that the managers probably did mainly take most of the right people. Even if Rioch, Masson and Gemmill were past it, they were still far better players than McNab, Payne and Fitzpatrick. I'd actually argue than none of the three were actually past it, though: Masson and Rioch had been on poor form that season, so their confidence was down, too, and I am fairly sure that Rioch was not 100% fit for the Peru game, but both he and Gemmill did play very well, indeed, in the Holland game. Willie Miller was actually told by McLeod he would be going as the other central defender if McQueen didn't travel. Unfortunately, Ally and the SFA took an emblematic crock that the entire Scotland medical and physio staff said would never be fit at any stage of the tournament because they found a single doctor who said differently and desperately wanted to believe he would be there for the second round. Personally, I would have had Gray in ahead of Derek Johnstone, however the big guy had scored so many goals that season, and had banged in some in the home internationals, that I do understand his selection. Arthur Graham would have been a saner choice than Willie Johnston. Jim Blyth had been told by McLeod he was getting a game after Peru, almost certainly against Iran, but McLeod reneged on this, as he did with his decision to play Souness against Iran. Aitken, Wark, Narey and Hegarty all just too young and inexperienced for a manager to gamble on in 78, I reckon, though Narey was already a superior player to Tam Forsyth and Kenny Burns but I can see why it was felt his time was not yet come. TBH, I don't think Gemmill would have added anything much in 74: Bremner was great in that tournament and so was Davie Hay. Our flaws were playing Dennis Law in the first match, not going for more goals against Zaire, not using Jimmy Johnstone at all and Dalglish doing zilch over three games.

And here is the 40 for Argentina: Goalkeepers:- Alan Rough (Partick Thistle) Jim Blyth (Coventry) Bobby Clark (Aberdeen) Jim Stewart (Middlesbrough)* Dave Stewart (Leeds U)* Defenders :- Sandy Jardine (Rangers) Stewart Kennedy (Aberdeen) Willie Donnachie (Man City) Martin Buchan (Man Utd) Tom Forsyth (Rangers) Kenny Burns (Nottm Forest) Gordon McQueen (Man Utd) Willie Miller (Aberdeen)* John Blackley (Newcastle)* David Narey (Dundee Utd)* Paul Hegarty (Dundee Utd)* Roddie MacDonald (Celtic)* John Brownlie (Hibernian)* Midfielders :- Bruce Rioch (Derby Co) Don Masson (Derby Co) Asa Hartford (Man City) Graeme Souness (Liverpool) Archie Gemmill (Nottm Forest) Neil McNab (Tottenham H)* Graeme Payne (Dundee Utd)* Tony Fitzpatrick (St Mirren)* John Wark (Ipswich)* Roy Aitken (Celtic)* Forwards :- Lou Macari (Man Utd) Joe Jordan (Man Utd) John Robertson (Nottm Forest) Joe Harper (Aberdeen) Kenny Dalglish (Liverpool) Willie Johnston (WBA) Derek Johnstone (Rangers) Andy Gray (Aston Villa)* Arthur Graham (Leeds U)* Ian Wallace (Coventry)* Frank McGarvey (St Mirren)*

Funnily enough, in some ways I agree with you: the team I named would not actually have been the one I'd have sent out against Brazil, but I reckon it would have been much more effective against New Zealand and the USSR than what we had, so I said they'd have got us off to a better start and finish. I don't think Stein would have taken Burley if he wasn't fully fit, despite my criticism of Big Jock's 1982 decisions, he would not have taken a crock like McLeod did with McQueen in 78. Ray Stewart was told at the last minute he wasn't going and Stuart Kennedy of your Aberdeen was so pissed off about not making the 22 for Spain that he told McLeish, Miller, Strachan and Leighton he would never go for a 50-50 ball again because they all got pay rises for being in the 82 squad! IF Nicholas had not got injured I'm sure he'd have been taken (probably getting Paul Sturrock's place), but not so sure he'd have played Stein's initial squad of 40 submitted to FIFA did include Davie Cooper but not Peter Weir. It was: Roy Aitken Arthur Albiston Steve Archibald Jim Bett Alan Brazil Des Bremner George Burley Tommy Burns Kenny Dalglish Allan Evans Davie Cooper Arthur Graham Andy Gray Frank Gray Alan Hansen Asa Hartford Paul Hegarty Derek Johnstone Joe Jordan Stewart Kennedy Jim Leighton George McCluskey Danny McGrain Alex McLeish Iain McCulloch Willie Miller Iain Munro David Narey Davie Provan John Robertson Alan Rough Robert Russell Graeme Souness Gordon Strachan Jim Stewart Ray Stewart Paul Sturrock Billy Thompson John Wark George Wood

Still not much of an excuse for literally never having watched them, or had them watched. Arthur Montford said he was embarrassed that the Iranian journalists there were all surprised that McLeod hadn't even sent someone he trusted to watch Iran play and make notes on them in games prior to the World Cup, and when his assistant John Haggart, on his own initiative, went to watch them in training, he reported back to McLeod that they were very athletic, fit and very good at moving around the pitch, which McLeod dismissed by just saying "we'll have too much in our armoury for them". I liked Ally (I met him once and he was really great company and a lovely person) but he was not up to it. Having said that, Stein, Fergie and Roxburgh, for all their preparations, didn't do any better than him in World Cups, I suppose.

That's what I remember, too. The were not a very united or happy overall squad, according to the "78" book.

This thread has got me re-reading "78: How a Nation Lost the World Cup". John Haggart, McLeod's assistant, reveals in it that Ally literally never watched Iran, even when Haggart went to watch them train two nights before the game, McLeod was like, what do you want o bother watching them for? He also said that he and McLeod had agreed that Souness would play against Iran, along with two other players (I have a feeling Jim Blyth might have been one for something else said in the book), only for Ally to change his mind almost at the last minute and drop all three.