Dev

Motherwell? Not seen this on web-site, facebook or twitter yet unless missed. Ayr United's consultation ends at 5pm so there may be something from them before the vote.

If Ian Maxwell has been correctly reported in the Daily Record article it raises concerns on a number of points. [a] The proposed conference league was reputed to be "a done deal" so why does it go to a vote if that isn't necessary according to SFA constitution, rules and regulations etc? Also his statement "People will vote whichever way they think is best for them. We can’t just implement things that we think are right. It’s a democracy." completely goes against the "done deal" idea. Croatia are often flung up as an example. How can a country with a smaller population perform so well when we can’t? What are they doing that we’re not? This one is easy to understand, Croatia has had a crop of outstanding players including the outstanding Luka Modric etc. When they retire will Croatia retain their current high ranking in EUFA? That's a Don't Know (for obvious reasons, unless you can read a crystal ball). In a lesser way it is similar to Wales who, until recently had one or two outstanding players who carried along the rest of the squad. These outstanding players are now retiring from international football and it will be difficult for wales to maintain recent standards. Things go in cycles. [c] The remaining nine out of ten top EUFA nations i.e. France, Belgium, England, Netherlands, Croatia, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Germany. They are all much larger nations than Scotland in terms of population so they have much larger pools of players to draw from. If they weren't in the top ten nations then they would be asking big questions of their FAs wouldn't they. [d] Scotland had a long Golden Era which has passed. Also, since then the overall standard of football in many other European nations has generally improved so it is tougher to qualify these days. [e] This means that it is tougher for smaller nations, including Scotland, to qualify for men's senior tournament finals. [f] Scotland's Under 17's still do well but by Under 21's they've a less successful record. Maxwell says "Our national team coaches are already seeing a significant improvement in the standard of those guys who have been playing in a B team against the ones who haven’t.” Has anyone seen any evidence to support this statement? Where is the evidence? Why hasn't it been produced in order to support the case for the installation of a conference league with B teams in it? Does this evidence exist or is Maxwell flying by the seat of his pants? [g] Scotland's Under 17's still do well but by Under 21's they've a less successful record. "he is adamant that the game in this country is crying out for radical change – and has urged club chiefs to be brave enough to back it." There's desire for change alright with a number of clubs calling for reconstruction of the whole of the Scottish Pyramid, and that includes the Premier Division of the SPFL down to current Tier 5 and below. There's also call for making promotion and relegation easier. Maxwell seems to think that the best of the nation's Under 17's should be hoovered up by four elite premier Division so they can be played week-in, week-out, in a Tier 5 conference league. These youngsters should be in first team squads in the Premier Division. That doesn't happen because they are not good enough to compete with the other players in these clubs' first team squads. These other players being mature adults from many footballing nations. Perhaps the Premier Division is the crux of the whole problem? [h] If you buy into the idea that youngsters don't (and will not) get their chances in the first teams of the four B team clubs then these kids need to be with other Premier Division clubs where there could be a better chance of making the first team squad and even of playing league matches for them. These league matches would, necessarily, include matches against the self-styled four B team clubs along with their superior players. That way those advancing from the successful Under 17's might gain beneficial match-day experience. They won't get that in a conference league. To help with this process there needs to be a larger number of clubs in the Premier Division so more kids get opportunities. We are talking about talented youngsters after all. The present set-up doesn't work so why chuck them into meaningless matches in a meaningless conference? Try telling tomorrow's equivalent of Luka Modric that he has to play in a conference league rather than gain experience with any club at Premier Division level. Maxwell is the face of the SFA Board. The whole lot just don't get it and they should go asap.

Supporting Russia and interfering with rail users in the UK. Russia supporters would be quite happy with that. It's nothing at all to do with standing up for rail workers.

RMT President Alex Gordon told a Left-wing festival that "spending billions and billions of pounds on arms to Ukraine" was "an absolutely improper use of public money". Gordon told the Arse Festival that the spending came "at a time when workers are struggling to pay the bills, when we can’t afford the food price rises and energy price rises, and when we hear the government supports an increase in interest rates to possible 5.5 per cent next month." The union boss went on to allege that "there are war crimes being carried out in Ukraine with British arms," adding: "There are clearly use is [sic] being put to British weapons which they shouldn’t be put to." Since when is It is a much better idea to let one nation invade another, destroying huge numbers of lives and permanently harming the lives of many others. There-again what is to be expected from a Trade Union which kicks its' own country's rail users when the country has gone through difficult times. Compassion is not in this Union's dictionary. Neither is common sense.

Thanks to the alleged Cowdenbeath supporters on here who have provoked sound responses from others for so many hours. You have defied your club's stance on this - so who are you really supporting? Must be closet OF fans? What are you going to try next after the vote goes against the proposed new conference league?

At the end of all of this, no matter what the outcome, the SFA and its' mates will be seen by all for what they are. Inefficient and beyond their sell by date. This latest high quality off the pitch performance by the SFA and its' self-serving mates is only matched by the national mens' team results on the pitch over the last 20 years or so. Is it any wonder that those have been so poor? Smell the coffee! The rot starts at the top at Board level and at self-serving "top" club level. The current fiasco may well have a fortunate spin-off. It may be the final straw and have created a majority amongst voting members in favour of restructuring and reform both on the pitch and at board and officers level. There's a momentum building! If the Cowdenbeath supporters on this thread are correct in their meanderings then that would be a good thing in a way. Another fowl-up by the SFA in an attempt to push through changes which are completely ill-thought through and yet another reason for reasonable people who are bothered about Scottish Football to take appropriate steps to start to put things right. They could start by giving ALL licenced clubs full membership and full voting powers.

Better to just leave this and focus on what matters - getting as much promotion to the No campaign as possible.

Kelty Hearts - Good Guys! twitter.com/KeltyHeartsFC/status/1665050649380175872 June 3, 2023 6:35 pm SPFL Conference League Kelty Hearts Football Club can confirm the club will be voting NO in the upcoming SPFL Vote regarding a new Conference League at tier 5. Following discussion between the board, committee and supporters at todays open meeting the decision has been to vote against the proposed introduction of a new league at Tier 5 directly below the SPFL League Two and above the Scottish Lowland and Highland Football Leagues. Kelty Hearts Sporting Director Craig Reynolds on the SPFL Proposal. “After today’s discussions with the board members, committee and fans, Kelty Hearts have decided against the idea aimed at the new conference league. As a club we have been on a long journey to get to where we are and we feel putting another league in doesn’t seem the right decision to do at this moment in time. We are all for player development but a league where you can finish 6th and be relegated or finish 5th and be promoted isn’t right for sporting integrity. While we understand the case for B teams, we believe that there’s other ways to improve Scottish football, such like larger leagues, reserve leagues and more loan players from the so called bigger teams, as well as a more open pyramid system and fairer financial allocation throughout the SPFL.” Article by Kelty Hearts Football Club – Permission to use quotations from this article online is only granted subject to appropriate source credit and hyperlink to KeltyHearts.co.uk

This was from 10th May when the Chairman states clearly: "I just hope we never have to be involved with it." Since then more information has been made available which has seen clubs which were minded to favour the scheme alter their minds to being against. Elgin clearly were not in favour of the idea and never were. It's a clear vote against.

There's been quite a lot of mentions for the need to restructure the pyramid and or the SPFL from SPFL clubs. Maybe something good can come out of this eventually? Maybe the real key is sacking the Board and getting decent straight forward people as replacements. They must exist somewhere, surely.

Good to see that this Conference proposal is attracting "interesting comments" from the media. Here's an example from Wednesday: www.scotsman.com/sport/football/how-scottish-footballs-conference-league-plans-are-starting-to-unravel-votes-against-fan-power-and-d-day-4164912 The Scotsman Football How Scottish football's Conference League plans are starting to unravel - votes against, fan power and D-Day Tuesday, June 6. A quick glance at the football calendar and there are no fixtures taking place within the Scottish football pyramid. For a football fix you will have to venture to the Copa Libertadores, South Korea’s K-League 1 or a play-off final in the Netherlands. Yet, it will be a big day in Scotland. By Joel Sked Published 31st May 2023, 19:30 BST It is the day when the Scottish FA AGM is scheduled to take place. Within it will be the vote for the controversial Conference League. A league which has been speculated about, talked about in different guises but it essentially boils down to the SFA and SPFL attempting to shoehorn a whole new league into the pyramid, becoming Tier 5 and sitting between League Two and the Lowland and Highland Leagues. From the 2024/25 season, four B teams will be joined by the top four Lowland League sides from next season and the top two from the Highland League. These B teams cannot win promotion and cannot be relegated and will pay a participation fee each season with a commitment of five campaigns. The highest placed non-B team will enter a play-off to win promotion to League Two, while the lowest placed non-B team will be relegated and the next lowest placed non-B team will enter a play-off. That’s it in a nutshell. ‘Took the next step’ Dr Ian Malcolm's iconic monologue in Jurassic Park comes to mind when making sense of these haphazard plans. Of the governing bodies “wielding” these plans as if they have uncovered their “dad’s gun”. They have “read what others have done", namely Croatia as mentioned by SFA chief Ian Maxwell, and “took the next step”. The next step being this nonsensical and unseemly league where a team finishing fifth in a ten-team division could be promoted. Or, on the flipside relegated. Oh, there is also the small matter of the introduction of a Conference League relegating hundreds of clubs in the pyramid. Before they even knew what they had they had “patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox”. What they have in the Conference League is this ugly monstrosity of a division which is hugely disrespectful to so many clubs up and down the country. Clubs that have spent relative fortunes on resources and infrastructure which would allow them to gain an SFA licence and progress through the pyramid on sporting merit. With sporting integrity. This league is the antithesis to both of those. ‘Softer landing’ SFA chief Ian Maxwell said the league would provide “a softer landing for clubs on the way down from League Two, and it means there is an earlier opportunity for clubs on their way up the pyramid”. So teams in the SPFL are more important to those below them? A novel idea would be a look at reconstruction which would open up the pathway between leagues and could B teams be part of that discussion? As soon as the Lowland League allowed Celtic and Rangers to wedge their foot in the door and get their B teams in the fifth tier, it seemed inevitable more was to follow. Hearts arrived the next season and when the idea of a Conference League was floated it appeared it was going to be unavoidable. What the big teams want, namely the Old Firm, the big teams get. Yet, fans have stood at the ‘B team’ marked door and pushed against it and, remarkably, the clubs have followed. Current state of affairs A ‘No To B Teams' Twitter account was set up in April and it gained traction quickly. “Positions in the Scottish football pyramid should be earned on the pitch, not purchased,” a petition against the plans read. “If this goes through, the footballing structure of Scotland will be damaged - with a clear message that fairness doesn't matter.” As the vote nears, more and more clubs are coming out against it. Currently, as per ‘No To B Teams’, four SPFL clubs have confirmed they are against it, as are 11 Highland League and five Lowland League clubs, plus four tier 6 sides. A number of West of Scotland and East of Scotland teams, who don’t have a vote, have also expressed their view against the Conference League. Bonnyrigg Rose have confirtmed they will vote against the Conference League proposals Brora Rangers were one of the latest clubs to reveal they will vote against it. The Highland League club's confirmation was one of the more intriguing ones having initially suggested they would vote in favour but due to changes to the proposals they then sought the input from fans. And therein lies one of the most encouraging aspects of the whole episode, the number of clubs which have reached out to fans. League Two Stenhousemuir are holding a fans forum to garner views. ‘Never going to bridge the gap’ Aberdeen, one of the country’s wealthiest clubs, believe it is not worth investing in. Kilmarnock boss Derek McInnes would prefer more attention was paid to the Reserve League. Queen's Park have ended their interest, as per a report from the Daily Mail. The discussion has moved on from ‘should B teams be part of Scottish football’ to ‘should these B teams skip the queue in front of hundreds of others’. Their presence within the Scottish football pyramid would be much more palatable should they start at the bottom and be able to work their way up to an agreed level. Yet, respectability is lost when even Rangers boss Michael Beale admitted "B-Team football is never going to bridge the gap to the Ibrox first-team". It is the hope the Conference League and B teams will aid with player pathway and development. A desire everyone can get behind but the current state of the national team can be used as a counterpoint and would its introduction be worth it for the message it sends out. Tuesday, June 6 could be a pivotal day for fan power and all those Davids often forgotten by the Goliaths. Ominously, it could well be kicking the B-team can further down the road.

Kelty Hearts consulting fans. keltyhearts.co.uk/conference-league-proposal/ · June 2, 2023 · 7:37 am SPFL Conference League Proposal We would like to invite supporters to New Central Park tomorrow (Saturday 3rd June) at 1:30pm to discuss the upcoming SPFL vote on the New Conference League Proposal. We are your local football club and your input is important to us. Gathering the thoughts of the local supporters and community is essential before any decision can be made. All SPFL Member Clubs will be asked to vote on the creation of a new Conference League at Tier 5 at the Scottish FA AGM on June 6th. The proposal Creation of a 10-team Scottish Conference League consisting of four B Teams. The first Season of the Scottish Conference League will be Season 2024/25. Top two Highland League teams at the end of Season 2023/24 included. Top four Lowland League teams at the end of Season 2023/24 included. B Teams cannot be promoted or relegated from The Scottish Conference League. The Scottish Conference League to be funded by a B Team participation fee: with six non-B teams receiving an estimated payment of around £40,000 each per annum. Minimum five-year commitment required from B Teams. Highest placed non-B Team at the end of the Season will enter a promotion/relegation Play Off with SPFL Club 42 as per current model. Lowest placed non-B Team at the end of the Season will be relegated to the Highland or Lowland League, replaced by the winner of the Highland/Lowland League Champions Play Off. Second-lowest placed non-B Team at the end of the Season will enter a promotion/relegation Play Off with the loser of the Highland/Lowland League Champions Play Off. B Teams must include a minimum of seven Scotland eligible players in their starting XI, and their matchday squad must include no fewer than eleven Scotland eligible players. Article by Kelty Hearts Football Club – Permission to use quotations from this article online is only granted subject to appropriate source credit and hyperlink to KeltyHearts.co.uk

An extract from the Elgin City Chairman's UPDATE on the club web-site: www.elgincity.net/news/latest-news/chairman-update CHAIRMAN UPDATE "The proposed conference league is not going to commence this upcoming season but there is a driving force from the B teams and the SFA to make it happen. There is no input from the SPFL it is the SFA, Lowland and Highland Leagues who are being affected. I just hope we never have to be involved with it. One item that was consistent over the season was the tremendous support we received over the piece. It was not always pretty or entertaining but you all came out rain or shine to cheer us on. The Club never take that support for granted and I assure you all it is greatly appreciated .Graham Tatters"

Given that Celtic, Hearts and Rangers are the three NAMED clubs which are proposed to be taking part in the proposed Conference via B teams they are the only ones with a current conflict situation. A conflict situation is a direct affect rather than a knock-on consequence. This makes a significant difference and they should not be permitted to vote on the matter IMO.

Thanks. I couldn't recall, for sure, whether or not they were already licenced prior to the cut-off date.

The list of voters included Linlithgow Rose who didn't have a licence pre 2019 and are not members of the LL until the AGM. Is this correct? If it is then, presumably, they would not have a vote on the matter. Also presumably the three clubs directly affected by the outcome of the vote i.e. Celtic, Hearts and Rangers, cannot vote either because they are in a conflict of interest position. Anyone know what the official situation is? That could reduce voting numbers down to 106. 54 votes needed to win the vote.

"i also think the done deal message was aimed to minimise resistance by hoping everyone would be too scared to look the lone sheep voting against." THIS. Now it is time to make big changes to the SFA and to prevent further ill thought out little schemes. Thought the article by the Sun journalist showed that there are people out there who see through the SFA/OF smoke and mirrors approach and their shambolic idea about how to improve the national team. More should speak up until the pressure reaches the SFA/OF and they can be appropriately attended to and Scottish football returned to the top of the list of SFA priorities once and for all.

Totally agree. The big question is just how extreme will Putin & Co go/get and what reaction that creates.

So that's what supporting Russia/Belarus means for the ordinary folk of that nation. It is also one d.mn good reason for driving that nation out of the Ukraine completely.

These demolitions not only by Pollok and Glencairn but also by Beale of Rangers need to get onto all accessible web sites including those here for Womens football, Amateurs and the 3 divisions beneath the Premier Division. Volunteers?

Grossly inefficient are the words I would use, based on the below par performances of the men's national side for so many years. The Conference proposal favours a tiny number of clubs in the SPFL Premier and that is it. Nothing for anyone-else except negatives.

Every vote counts. It's more about putting the info in front of others who have votes.

Pollok's Club Statement needs to be copied onto ALL relevant threads here on P&B i.e. those which cover voting associate FAs, all leagues which have even one club that is eligible to vote, all clubs etc . Some are already done but if one person does them it will be called as Spamming. Volunteers, anyone?: ALL SPFL Divisions Highland League Lowland League EoS SoS WoS - already sorted North Caledonian SFA Juniors SAFA Amateurs SFA Womens North Caledonian Any others that can vote.

Here it is. Absolutely tears apart the concept and those behind it without sounding at all vindictive. Brilliant: Club Statement on proposed “Conference League” May 27, 2023 Having now received full details of the SFA’s plans for a new “Conference League” at Tier 5 of the Scottish football pyramid, Pollok FC wish to make it clear that we are totally opposed to this proposal. Whilst we accept the intent to improve the development pathway for footballers is sincere, this proposal is not the solution. We believe that this proposal would be to the detriment of the vast majority of the remaining 200+ clubs in the football pyramid and at the same time is highly unlikely to achieve its stated aims. The main purpose of a football pyramid system is to allow its member clubs, through promotions and relegations, to progress towards a level at which they are competing more or less equitably, and this proposal completely undermines the integrity of that structure. In recent years a significant number of non-SPFL clubs, including Pollok FC, have shown their commitment to the pyramid philosophy by pursuing and acquiring a SFA club licence. To do so they have developed and improved the facilities at their grounds, trained staff and implemented policies required to show that they are ready. This has taken a huge amount of work, mostly by unpaid volunteers, and has also cost considerable sums of money. To then have another League hurdle imposed is needlessly insensitive to those efforts. We are more than ready, should we earn promotion, to move up from our current Tier 6 to compete at Tier 5 for another promotion to Tier 4 and League 2 of the SPFL, continuing to develop and improve our infrastructure as necessary along the way. The proposal would place four Lowland League and two Highland League teams in the new Conference League, the criteria for this selection has not been specified, alongside four B teams. This is not an attractive proposition for the six “competing” teams who would receive £40,000 compensation for having to play almost half of their matches against ‘B’ teams of youngsters along with increased travel and fewer competitive rivalries. Also, depending on what positions the ‘B’ teams who cannot be promoted or relegated finish in at the end of the season, a non-B team in 5th place could find themselves in either a promotion or a relegation play-off. It is entirely possible that after a couple of seasons were the two Highland League teams to be relegated, this Conference League would look like the present Lowland League but with fewer teams. Recently Aberdeen FC have said that they are not going to put a B team into this League and Rangers manager Michael Beale has said, “I don’t think the Lowland League is a good bridge, so we need to look at other games,” and yet the Conference League would look just like the Lowland League but smaller. Unless there is a hidden agenda, which may not be that well-hidden when the office bearers for the company behind this new League are taken into consideration, then on the face of it this proposal is without merit. It is overtly the only option that does not require a vote that would be against the self-interests of the majority of SFA member clubs eligible to vote at the AGM on the 6th June. Because it is the only option is not good enough reason for it to become a reality. Pollok FC is wholly opposed to the formation of this Conference League and although, as a recently licensed SFA member, we are not ourselves able to vote at the SFA AGM, we would urge as many other voting clubs as possible to reject the proposal.

Nairn County has withdrawn their side from the League. Having B teams at the bottom rung of the ladder and making their way up from there is another matter. The NCal is the local bottom of the ladder.