Dev

There's a really simple and obvious solution for the "won't vote for 20% chance of relegation" excuse. The clubs play each other a boring 4 times each league season so 36 league games. Three Divisions of 10 teams is boring so change it to two Divs of 16 which allows for two additional (non B teams) clubs and 30 games per league season. If even more league games are wanted then go 2 Divs of 18 so 34 League matches. If existing SFL clubs are afraid of falling out of the league when there's two extra places (2x16 team Divs) or six extra places (2x18 team Divs) then maybe they should be relegated?

"What's in it for them". This attitude in Scottish football is at the heart of what's been wrong with the game for decades. It's not confined to the SL Div.2. Time for change at the very top i.e. SFA to bring in people who put football first. The LL uses the promotion issue (i.e. using the SL relegation constraint) as a way to justify keeping relegations/acceptance of good clubs from below fully knowing that their case is shot full of holes. The LL (and the SL) also know that they are on a loser once enough clubs who are no longer tied to the "old" ways change leagues and stop the nonsense i.e. unless the SFA finally steps in. This will affect the LL first though.

HI Are you really Alex (Gartcairn FC)? If so could you make this clear? Obviously that's not an obligation but it may help if there's some open-ness about that? Just a thought.

Thanks for the info. Shame it isn't done for other Pyramid divisions, apart from the LL. Are there any latest figures available for the Premier Division?

The possibility of the WoS failing to provide a licenced club to compete in the LL promotion play-offs needs to be addressed and, if a change of wording by the LL, somehow just cannot be done, then the WoS may consider making the top division "all licenced clubs" in say five seasons time? Wouldn't be popular though.

Good to see that on the thread as it reminds us of what's what re promotion. Clearly the LL needs to amend the rule so that it reads something along the lines of say: “Qualifying Clubs” means the champion club highest placed SFA Licenced clubs from within the Qualifying Leagues which are eligible for promotion to the SLFL in terms of the rules of the SLFL.

Cheers!

Is there an SFA rule or reg which actually states that this would be the case? Just asking!

Anyone know when the SGM is being held? I hope they are positive about the potential two new teams.

Are there many new clubs in the Highlands Amateur Leagues in 2024? I see Mallards FC (where are they?). Haven't checked for more yet.

FWIW Let's have a meaningful competition for ALL Pyramid clubs - albeit with regionalised early rounds so clubs aren't faced with expensive long distances to travel unless they make the later rounds - with clubs not forced to enter. Surely the SFA has the funding now to set this up having qualified for a major competition for the first time in so long. The SFA could also now properly fund its' own Licencing Department - failure to do so at present is shambolic.

Hi Thanks. Looks good.

Re a previous point: "The under 20's and younger at, say, Gartcairn also gain the benefit of regular use of the senior sides' facilities, with changing facilities, lights, seats etc. or is it the other way round? i.e. the seniors use the Under age players park?" Do the youngsters get to borrow the first teams' pitch at all e.g. for matches and or training sessions? I am guessing that they do use them but no idea if they really do so maybe a red herring question. If they do have use do you think that it adds meaningfully to their progress?

How does the Player Pathway function at Gartcairn? Some clubs have failed with this. Would you say that it's working well at Gartcairn? Are there many coming through to the first team squad and getting match-Day experience? There talk about expensive non-Pathway players coming in. Are they a good fit? i.e. no complaints from parents/young Pathway players as has happened elsewhere? Just interested as the club could be a good example for others to follow. Similar to the above: other clubs may benefit from following Gartcairn's approach to improving the performances at first team level. Any tips?

There's been a fair amount of poking fun at the likes of Gartcairn and St Cadocs but the League tables don't lie. They've made huge progress. That's to be applauded. It isn't as though they've broken any rules & Regs. Presumably the senior teams at these clubs are one and the same as the boys, girls and youth teams? Logically that gives the opportunity for youngsters to progress as far as they can as amateurs or semi-pros so what's wrong with that? How do these clubs make it work given what can happen when Youth clubs talk of creating Player Pathways? Anyone any idea? The under 20's and younger at, say, Gartcairn also gain the benefit of regular use of the senior sides' facilities, with changing facilities, lights, seats etc. or is it the other way round? i.e. the seniors use the Under age players park? Interesting to see how they make it work to mutual benefit given what has happened to one or two other clubs which sought to provide a player pathway. Either way it looks like a good set-up. St Cadocs though seem to have a way to go yet re facilities but, apart from that they're doing well.

Someone mentioned that the person being debated is no longer an officer at Gartcairn. Is that correct or not? If not then what would the person referred to be doing at League meetings? If he is an official rep then that's another matter! Needs to be cleared up. Similarly, but follows on from this debate, what is the future of football below Tier 5? Now that there is a Pyramid system in place why continue to have Amateur/Welfare/Junior status and why are not all players treated as players, whether or not they are paid? Surely the time has come to ditch these "traditions" ? It's the 21st Century not the late 1800's. Leagues can then take responsibility for what they choose to do or not do. The SFA could then organise a truly National Cup Competition accessible to all clubs in the Pyramid Leagues below the SPFL (but no compulsory entry for clubs). Each League would be directly responsible to the SFA. Time to move on and ditch the "Us and Them" nonsense from an out dated bunch on both "sides" and to put football first!

FWIW. I don't see an issue with clubs fielding genuine B/Reserves teams in the EoS when they don't seem to be aiming them at SPFL level. However, there should be a way to ring-fence the squads so that they are roughly the same strength from match to match. It should be possible to keep out First Team players in any case. Maybe it can be done if there is a rule which covers such situations i.e. perhaps something along the lines of: "Clubs fielding a team which is not its' First Team shall, by the first day of each month, submit to the League the names of (say) eleven players of their first choice Team, none of whom shall be eligible to play in their EoS Team during that month." The risk is that, without any Rule, B/Reserves Teams can be "quickly" strengthened. It would difficult to prevent Teams from fielding weakened Teams though. Anyway it's food for discussion/thought.

With the 80 club limit and a more or less "closed door" to new clubs entering the WoS don't ne too surprised if some clubs lose patience and take the SoS route into the Pyramid.

There is a track record of west clubs entering the SoS as a way into the Pyramid, then getting licenced and ending up in the LL. Given the current 80 club limit of the WoS maybe that could happen again?

As already mentioned, there is a licence system in place as far down as the Tier 5/6 boundary within the Pyramid. Do leagues beneath that really need to have the same promotion/relegation rules and criteria with lower levels of the game? FWIW. I don't see why that should be. Presumably there is nothing to prevent any of the feeder leagues to Tier 5 from making agreements with any lower level leagues of any type if they choose to do so? Barring applications from the likes of Edinburgh College or, potentially from University clubs which play outside the SAFA or even Welfare clubs, really isn't necessary, and that is a weakness of the route recently taken by the WoS and the SAFA. The idea of giving the opportunity for potential applicant clubs to the Tier 6 leagues a chance to join a list of pre-approved clubs sounds good but the SAFA only restriction needs deleting ASAP. The sometimes mentioned refusal of the SFA to accept regionalisation within the Tier 6 leagues seems to be a potential constraint of trade situation (some here will know better) and, on the face of things, is only needed in order to help sustain SFA's sub-groups i.e. the Blazers within the SAFA, Welfare, Juniors, etc. Why not let Tier 6 league have regionalisation at the bottom of their leagues? If there are clubs which meet the necessary entry requirements to move up to regional levels which maybe have intermediate facility needs then why not accept them say as associate member clubs? I would like to see SAFA, Welfare, Juniors, etc groupings deleted with all clubs placed at appropriate levels within or outside the existing Pyramid. If needs must then create a Recreational Football Association within the SFA but the Juniors would simply become what they are already i.e. Senior Leagues within the Pyramid. The leagues affected would continue anyway, some as part of the Pyramid and others as purely recreational football leagues which would be a source of potential new clubs to the Tier 6 Pyramid leagues, as at present.

Don't disagree but the opening up and creation of a pyramid is about giving opportunity for clubs wishing to get licenced and to climb the pyramid. If, at present, there are no licenced clubs likely to be champions of their leagues then maybe it's time to open up the promotion opportunity to the leagues runner-up too. If the champions aren't licenced why shouldn't the runners-up take their place in the play-offs? If they're good enough they will win and gain promotion - so strengthening the Highland League. That's what happens in England and Wales. Doesn't seem to cause issues there.

In theory this could affect SPFL Reserves or "B" teams too. Can see individual Amateur Leagues linking up with Pyramid leagues, particularly if they wish to be seen as the "top dog" in their patch. Would it not make sense in the north e.g. Aberdeen Amateur League and the North Juniors League?

Just spotted this on a new Amateurs thread. Implications for the EoS too?: Amateur to WoS progression By Brad Bobley 13 minutes ago in Amateur Football ATTENTION ALL CLUBS Amateur clubs in the West of Scotland will soon have an opportunity to join the Scottish football pyramid after an agreement between the West of Scotland Football League (WoSFL) and the Scottish Amateur Football Association (SAFA). The agreement means that when a vacancy arises for a club to join the West of Scotland Football League, perhaps due to the Premier Division champion club being promoted to the Lowland League, that the vacancy could be filled by an amateur club, from the Scottish Amateur Football Association (SAFA), that satisfies all the necessary stadium and other criteria required to join the WoSFL. Any SAFA amateur club, based within the defined geographical boundary of the League, that wishes to apply for membership of the WoSFL will now be able to do so at any time via the wosfl.co.uk website. There, all the information will be available, including a copy of the stadium criteria clubs will be required to meet and the League constitution. Clubs will also be able to complete an online self-assessment form to start the process. A visit from a delegate of the WoSFL will highlight any aspect of the application that needs to be improved, including the stadium criteria and once the club has satisfied the requirements, they will be placed on an accredited list clubs eligible to join the League. When a vacancy arises, those clubs on the approved list will be invited to make a presentation to a panel made up of both the WoSFL and the SAFA to determine which club will fill the vacancy. The agreement also means that any youth club that wishes to become a member of the WoSFL must in the first instance, join their local SAFA League or Association. After they have been members of the Scottish Amateur FA for a season, they will then be eligible to apply to become an accredited club to join the WoSFL. SAFA President, Iain Cowden, said that this agreement was a positive step that allowed those progressive amateur clubs an opportunity to make the step into senior football, while allowing open dialogue with member clubs to assist them going forward. “This agreement is great news for all amateur clubs in the West of Scotland who may have ambitions of progressing into the pyramid system of Scottish Football whilst at the same time protecting the status of the Scottish Amateur FA in the West of Scotland, in that clubs out with our organisation who wish to join the pyramid system, must become a member of the Scottish Amateur FA before they can become eligible to apply to the West of Scotland League.” “This is an excellent opportunity for our clubs, and I believe that this is a blueprint that could be replicated elsewhere in Scotland for the benefit of our national game.” Matt Bamford, Chairman of the West of Scotland Football League agreed and stated that football is the winner from this agreement. “This agreement is a win/win for both the League and for amateur football. It allows clubs to achieve the minimum criteria for membership of the WoSFL so that they have everything in place when a vacancy arises.” “It also protects the amateur game and benefits not only progressive amateur clubs but also youth clubs with a defined pathway into senior football should they so desire.”

Just posted on the Amateurs Thread: Amateur to WoS progression By Brad Bobley 13 minutes ago in Amateur Football ATTENTION ALL CLUBS Amateur clubs in the West of Scotland will soon have an opportunity to join the Scottish football pyramid after an agreement between the West of Scotland Football League (WoSFL) and the Scottish Amateur Football Association (SAFA). The agreement means that when a vacancy arises for a club to join the West of Scotland Football League, perhaps due to the Premier Division champion club being promoted to the Lowland League, that the vacancy could be filled by an amateur club, from the Scottish Amateur Football Association (SAFA), that satisfies all the necessary stadium and other criteria required to join the WoSFL. Any SAFA amateur club, based within the defined geographical boundary of the League, that wishes to apply for membership of the WoSFL will now be able to do so at any time via the wosfl.co.uk website. There, all the information will be available, including a copy of the stadium criteria clubs will be required to meet and the League constitution. Clubs will also be able to complete an online self-assessment form to start the process. A visit from a delegate of the WoSFL will highlight any aspect of the application that needs to be improved, including the stadium criteria and once the club has satisfied the requirements, they will be placed on an accredited list clubs eligible to join the League. When a vacancy arises, those clubs on the approved list will be invited to make a presentation to a panel made up of both the WoSFL and the SAFA to determine which club will fill the vacancy. The agreement also means that any youth club that wishes to become a member of the WoSFL must in the first instance, join their local SAFA League or Association. After they have been members of the Scottish Amateur FA for a season, they will then be eligible to apply to become an accredited club to join the WoSFL. SAFA President, Iain Cowden, said that this agreement was a positive step that allowed those progressive amateur clubs an opportunity to make the step into senior football, while allowing open dialogue with member clubs to assist them going forward. “This agreement is great news for all amateur clubs in the West of Scotland who may have ambitions of progressing into the pyramid system of Scottish Football whilst at the same time protecting the status of the Scottish Amateur FA in the West of Scotland, in that clubs out with our organisation who wish to join the pyramid system, must become a member of the Scottish Amateur FA before they can become eligible to apply to the West of Scotland League.” “This is an excellent opportunity for our clubs, and I believe that this is a blueprint that could be replicated elsewhere in Scotland for the benefit of our national game.” Matt Bamford, Chairman of the West of Scotland Football League agreed and stated that football is the winner from this agreement. “This agreement is a win/win for both the League and for amateur football. It allows clubs to achieve the minimum criteria for membership of the WoSFL so that they have everything in place when a vacancy arises.” “It also protects the amateur game and benefits not only progressive amateur clubs but also youth clubs with a defined pathway into senior football should they so desire.”

It's OK! The Yanks will help the fight against Putin & Co. Won't they? Um! Perhaps not.