Inanimate Carbon Rod

No I can differentiate between the nature of each party however I see no difference in the damage they will do driving towards brexit, i’ve been pretty clear about this.

Would that be the employment rights enshrined in the EU legislation Labour are abstaining the shit out of retaining? The same NHS in Scotland where several buildings are in PFI debt? The same NHS Labour committed to £10bn of PFI debt for hospitals which only cost £2bn to deliver? Thats good?

It’d be good if that happens. Will just need to wait and see, Hoey etc may be popular at constituency level?

Well for a start they wouldn’t be constantly at each others throats? Also see the SNP for how to put together an opposition, if Labour had half the political ability of the latest SNP parliamentarians then we possibly would have had the chance to stop brexit. Ive already said that a new centre left party devoid of the poison that is Labour careerism would be very appealing to a broad spectrum of the electorate. I find it unpalatable to consider voting for a party full of careerists, oxbridge educated middle class toffs who go about calling each other comrade and think singing the red flag at their annual jolly keeps them in touch with the working man, all the while being propped up by unions with similar influence to industry bodies with the conservatives.

Im indifferent to whichever is the choice, both will do nothing to improve things for Scotland. I do remember this, which is why I want indy so badly.

A Corbyn government would be even more unstable than the current Tory one, they’re like the peoples front of judea constantly battling internally about diversity policies and infighting about things the electorate couldnt give a f**k about. If you can’t see that any reasonable opposition would have ousted May last year then i’m not sure you understand how politics works? Would I think ‘f**k it’ and stop giving a toss about politics in the event of a second no, god yes, like I said you can’t make a horse drink if you lead it to water so if people vote for something thats going to f**k them socially, financially and shift the political ideology of the country even further right then let them. Its like banging your head against a brick wall and my head’s getting sore so yes there’s only so much you can take. Honestly arguing with folk like yourself is like someone complaining theyre hungry at a buffet. I’d donate to my local foodbank and help out there because I fully predict the brexit clusterfuck that Labour and the Tories would merrily see us skip towards will cause a shit load more people to be reliant on them. Why don’t you wake up and see that we’re being sold down the river?

American health care lobbyist firms are now actively donating to Tory politicians. The BBC are now also putting these lobbyists on as if they are heathcare experts. The BBC is essentially normalising these people. Its fucking frightening that people don’t see this

These issues will only get worse in a Britain under brexit. UK labour are unelectable, they had an open goal last year against May and absolutely fucked it because Corbyn is a complete car crash. The SNP aren’t perfect but seem to be doing the best they can to subvert Tory Austerity. With the fact Labour seem hell bent on pushing through a no deal brexit with no consideration to devolved parliaments (owing to their abstention on key votes and voting with the tories on other matters like Trident) they’ve shown that they actually don’t offer any meaningful alternative. We wont see an end to austerity in the UK because the tories will say its necessary for brexit to be a success and the mouth foaming masses will accept that to get rid of foreigners and straight bananas, its patently clear that this is the case, the English electorate sent a clear message by re-electing the Tories that this is what they want. If there’s not a referendum in a few years we keep fighting for one, but if the people of Scotland turn their back on it whats the point in struggling on. I’ll accept that its not meant to be and do my best to look after me and my own, I dont identify as British, have no interest in Britain etc but if my side loses i’ll not be bothered about the damage that will happen to the UK under prolonged Tory rule or bungling uncle Jeremy’s rule either. Thats my point, it may appear defeatist, but I dont have much faith in the electorate of the UK or Scotland, right now the UK electorate appears to be the very definition of a nation of Turkeys voting for Christmas every single day. If by some miracle a new Centre Left party emerges full of competent politicians not sullied by involvement with Labour, offering Scotland etc full federal status with access to the Single Market then I could possibly get behind that but both parties in the UK government (lets not count the Lib Dems they really don’t matter) see Scotland as an inconvenience and treat us with nothing but contempt I can’t see that happening. Ask yourself this, the Tories and Labour whinge on about ‘subsidising Scotland’ etc, but these are people driven solely by money, Rees-Mogg moving his business interests to the EU for one show this, TM allowing her Husbands company to get access to privatised police infrastructure is another, then why would they seek to keep us around? These aren’t the sort of folks who just think its Jolly nice to be the UK, its because financially Scotland contributes a f**k load to the economy and that can be exploited to keep us down and creating this inferiority complex that most of us Scots have (even if its subconscious). Scots should be the proudest people on the planet, we have a wonderful country (which has its challenges but on the whole we fucking rock) which would be the envy of the world. We would be a very successful independent country, able to shape our own future, not bound by a system specifically designed to keep us down. We’d have the balls to stand up to bullies like Trump, be able to shape EU legislation and agenda and be a force for good in the world. I’d love to be a part of that, wouldn’t you? To reject independence a second time would be the most shameful act of self depreciation that the world would ever see and would signal the end for me in terms of the movement. I dont think its a particularly unreasonable position to take?

Ok but if your political aim is indy and a second no in 5/6 years comes in why bother? If people are too blind to see that staying in the UK post brexit, under the tories or Corbyn would be a shit storm then perhaps they deserve what they get? I see your point about those who would be in that perhaps 49% who voted yes, but ultimately you have to draw the line somewhere and I think following a second no that’s where I personally would draw the line and stop giving a shit, I know some would see it as childish but tbh I’d really not give a shit anymore if people put the politics of the orange order, sdl, ukip, britain first, BNP and tories above what could actually be a positive outcome for Scotland. You can only lead a horse to water, cant make it drink, but if you lead a horse to water more than once despite it needing a drink then whats the point in devoting your life to helping it get water?

But why should they work for the UK when they dont believe in it? I genuinely would like to see those areas which are the staunchest pro brexit areas hit the hardest by the economic impact, but they won’t be. Why should I strive as a pro indy supporter to try and make things better post second no vote for people who don’t have a clue and voted for a xenophobic, economically disastrous brexit? I think there has to come a time when we say f**k it the bad guys have won and that would be my reaction if a second indy ref were to fail. Holding out hope for 1 out of every 4 governments to be labour (and then hope that its not a right wing labour or moronic Corbyn led labour) doesnt really seem like much of a consolation prize.

Where do you see the alternative coming from? I think next indy ref the campaign should be a positive one focusing on the benefits and Scotlands ability to be a strong member of the international community. However it would be entirely negligent to not point out the lies of the last campaign, surely you can see that?

Well if you operate on a majority democratic system thats how it works surely? I know if my entire lifes work was rejected by the public twice in favour of lies and right wing politics i’d probably jack it in and look to do something else, if the public is too stupid to realise it then they deserve what they get basically. Its patently clear that Independence is the best way forward for Scotland, if it gets rejected at a time where the case could never be stronger then whats the point? Labour have made it clear in both recent guises that they hold Scotland in complete contempt, New Labour taking Scotland into wars it didnt support, fucking up the financial sector, plunging schools into huge pfi debts and current Labour under Corbyn which abstains on votes which will hurt Scotland, steps aside for far right brexit, a leader who clearly has no interest in Scotland (see his insight into our legal system etc). The Lib Dems are even worse, so really what is the alternative to indy?

If people vote no again despite the lies last time, the madness of brexit and the spectre of a far right Tory party craving an american trade deal that impacts our work conditions, food safety and NHS then yes they truly do deserve all they get. The fact that the labour party continues to be ineffective in opposition and abstaining on key votes shows they have no desire to stop these things happening. That we’ve to put our trust in Corbyn and Kate Hoey is utter lunacy and perhaps living under the shadow of hard brexit and all that brings will be enough to shift opinion, but for many others ensuring they get to stick on a sash and bang a drum would make that acceptable, for others its passports and for the rest its getting rid of Johnny Foreigner. If we vote no again then it really is beyond saving.

Basically if we lose again then we’re fucked, Brexit, Rees-Mogg PM, private NHS type affair so I understand the guys urgency and focus on the indy issue. I dont agree with Pep on a lot of things and cringe at a lot of his posts but he’s kinda right to say that the biggest issue at present is Indy. If i was a pro indy politician and it was a no i’d just resign and let the fuckwits destroy the country because that’s what the people would deserve. If people can’t see that the Tories will make everyone poorer, destroy workers conditions/pay and shift the UK even further to the right then its a sad day, sadly I think we will lose another ref and there really is no viable alternative to hard brexit tory right wing extremism. Careerist Labour politicians so desperate to cling onto the union and their profile ignoring the founding principles of the actual party make a mockery of politics in this country. Basically we are at a junction, its Indy and the chance to shape Scotlands place in the world or Brexit, right wing Tory rule for the foreseeable, becoming isolationist, indebted further to Trump et al and with the things we hold dearest like the NHS eroded to satisfy the rich tory donors.

Yes they did?

Willy, just out of interest, what do you do for a living? Not asking you to tell us where exactly just what your job title is or what field etc?

I sold concert merchandise whilst at uni, same premise, can assure you stock was counted out and in. Didnt ever stop arseholes coming up and asking for huge discounts as if they were special and didnt have to pay the going rate. ‘Oh you’ll no miss that’ ‘what dae ye mean I cannae have the program half price’ etc. Load of self entitled wankers. Well done to the wee guy who didnt sell you it cheaper, he might be working with that company all summer at various events like the open next week and festivals etc, refreshing to see people with integrity.

Somewhere between 1.690-1.872.

Labour backing a tax payer funded bid for England to host the World Cup, continuing to endear themselves to the Scottish electorate.

Staunch level 100000.

Starting?

JLD, say you get battered on holiday and the folks doing it tell you its because your scottish or a ‘jock’. Would you consider that racist?

Clubs calling themselves senior not going down well with the basement dweller that is Pyramid News ? Nothing there but blank space for me?

Anyone else think Philyerboots shouldnt be allowed to post until he gets a medical certificate?

Was she though?