Che Dail

According to the squad on wiki, they have 19 Croats out of a 33 squad = 57%. Same as Slavia Prague. Now consider the graduates playing at bigger clubs elsewhere: Eduardo, Modric, Corluka, Lovren, Vrsaljko, Brozovic, Kovacic, Olmo, Pjaca, Madzukic. The Academy is doing a cracking job.

Good one, I see what you did there GENIUS.

Naw, actually, the cake was spectacular: multi award winning, one of the best in Europe, and slices were sold for lots and lots of money. And other bakers tried their best to copy it, some more successfully than others. But yes, happy to disagree, and glad to hear you're trying to open up

Correct, and what's wrong with that? It's in their interests to develop better players. Better players is the whole point. The club wins, and so does the country.

Holy shit. Successful youth football academies in Europe have adult B Teams: FACT. The national teams of Croatia and Czech Republic are consistently better than Scotland: FACT The top Croatian and Czech 1st team clubs have more home-grown players than we do: FACT That's all the evidence we need to justify following their lead and learning from them. B Teams are part of their overall structure, the player pathway at each club, and overall, they work. If you enjoy a cake then ask for the ingredients - you don't ask him to leave out the vanilla next time because you don't like it, and you think the success of the cake does not rely on the inclusion of vanilla. You just accept the judgement of the baker - he knows how to bake a cake!

Proceed with the trial because data, evidence and facts (from Europe) suggests it works. But naw, you just keep saying everything is stupid. Cruyff, Guardiola, Gerrard, Kennedy, Croatia, Spain, Holland, Czech Republic, Rangers, Celtic, Slavia Prague, Sparta Prague, Dinamo Zagreb, Ajax, Barcelona, Juventus: ALL STOOPID. Nice one, you should try out on Question Time - go tell them they're all just stupid.

How do you differentiate between a ludicrous fact and a sensible fact? And what's the criteria separating a 'stupid' argument, as opposed to simply having a different opinion to somebody else? This is about taking a wider view, and not just focusing on 'B Teams: BAD, or B Teams GOOD'. All I'm saying is that I think we should try.

Stepping away from Croatia to the Czech Republic, because somebody else referenced them previously, pointing out that no player who featured v Scotland ever played for a B Team. And that may well be the case. But they mostly came through Club Academies, of which 'B' teams is a fundamental part of their player pathway. So compare Schick (who can score) against Dykes (who could not) and assess the gulf in quality. Schick made his 1st team debut for Sparta Prague age 18. He'd been in the Sparta Academy since age 11. Presumably he bypassed the B team, such was his level of readiness. Beforehand he will have played u15s, u16s, u17s in a competitive environment - no doubt tested in training against their own u20s and u21s... B team players. This, in their own club academy and part of the same player pathway. Those other players (not quite ready to step up) are retained at the club, and have value - as future 1st team players, for re-sell on to other clubs, and as (best v best) competition in-house for aspiring younger players (like Schick), ultimately helping with their development to superstardom and a £40m valuation. The point is: the B team is part of the whole picture of player development at each club, the transition between youth and pro-adult football. Onto the Czech league structure: In recent years, from what I can gather, TWELVE Czech B teams were 'parachuted in' to their tier 3 of the football pyramid. no mucking about - in they went, with little deference to 'football integrity' it seems. But then on the face of it, there's an obvious pragmatism about this approach. Re the national team: The Czech average WORLD ranking is 20th, and Scotland around 40th over a 20 year period. In their first team club squads (on wiki, flag counting), Sparta Prague has 74% Czech players and Slavia 57%. Conversely, Celtic have just 44% Scots and Rangers only 33%. Czech Republic and Croatia are evidently successful at player development. The leaders know what they are doing and can point to clear evidence of success. B teams are implemented in their league structures, and at their academies. So is it a good idea, or a bad idea?

Well it certainly is if clubs are limited to 250 due to COVID restrictions! But I really have no idea what the demand among OF supporters and neutrals will be - this is crystal ball type stuff: nobody knows. Bearing in mind that the 1st team stadiums won't be allowed to be full, you've got the 'novelty' factor, and there are usually busloads OF fans travelling to Ibrox and Parkhead every other week from most (Lowland) regions still looking to follow their club(?) - I'm not sure that 500 is completely unrealistic. I expect they'll be charging more than a fiver at the gate though. The LL clubs themselves will have a greater handle on it, and are smart enough to recognize what is a real prospect and what is unattainable - and they'd have weighed that up when considering the proposal. No question though, when you're pitching an idea and want people to agree to it, you must be bullish and optimistic - so I'm not going to criticize the author for trying!

I just explained why it's embarrassing. Can you read? It's just some wild assumptions that aren't realistic at all. I can read - It says 'potential' additional revenues, i.e latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success or usefulness. And you're embarrassed by that? And quite content to laugh at it. Yet you don't even know the difference between the meaning of the words 'potential' and 'assumptions'.

Embarrassing how? This is something that somebody has actually taken care over and DONE, as opposed to your nugatory contribution which is to only TALK about what needs to be done.

The reserve league replaced the development league and is not age-restricted. At the end of its first season (18/19) Aberdeen, Celtic, Hibs, Rangers and St Johnstone withdrew from it. I'd imagine it didn't provide the rigorous levels of competition required to prepare young players for the demands of 1st team football. Which is more or less what John Kennedy said - he'd been to Spain to see how B teams work for clubs and player development over there.

Except they didn't, remember? There was a vote by clubs which found in favour of the proposal.

Frustration. Here's another attempt. Please watch this, just 8 minutes of your life, and tell me you believe nothing is being done (by the OF) to look at wider measures to improve youth development in Scotland. This video, LITERALLY, is published online and freely available. Rangers consulted EVERY club, and sought to implement the feedback in their transition paper, of which, B Teams was a part. If nothing is being done, it is not for the want of trying. They believe that Scotland is the only country in Europe NOT to have a pathway from 17 to 21 years old. They state that their findings are 'steeped in data', and they are following 'strategies that have worked in other countries'. The implementation of B Teams is 'clearly to their benefit', and Strategic Partnerships might work for others.

Wrong. But how do you even know that? Because you refused to watch the Stewart Robertson interview or read any articles on the subject. You couldn't even bring yourself to study the graphic which promoted the scheme, previously shared on this thread. You bring only a pre-determined set of unshakeable and one-sided narrow views, a closed mindset.

Not quite, Stewart Robertson openly admits that this is a venture to benefit themselves - the OF are businesses after all - but the consequential effects, they argue, will be beneficial to the game in Scotland and ultimately the national team. But in the longer-term, if properly implemented. Nobody is saying this is a quick-fix - if they are to progress things beyond this season, it might be that they must start at the bottom of the pyramid and work through the leagues, that'll be a discussion to be had later. On Croatia, Zagreb is a selling club. They invest what they can in their key assets which is their youth development program and young players. It works for them as a business, as a football club, and it works for their country. B Teams are part of their structure and player pathway, and that is a fact.

And interestingly, like Scotland, the Netherlands were slow to implement a functioning football pyramid. Why change anything? they might have asked. They were the doing things right, so it seemed, one of the best in the world... but Belgium have overtaken them, masters of innovation and change. Germany started completely afresh after they were thrashed by England in 2001 - They responded to failure. Implementation of change (or not adapting) has an effect further down the line, a generation away, the 'Hidden side of everything' if you believe the likes of Steven Levitt / Freakonomics.

Nice cherry-picked list of countries there, now throw in Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan and all the other dross with B teams in their system. The reference to Croatia was in response to a specific point about them losing to England. The others are in the Euros (successful), so it is topical. But you're right, we could also talk about other small countries like Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Wales - all well ahead of Scotland in the rankings yet don't have B Teams - but then, one might argue that they (or any of the other small countries you reference) do not quite have a Celtic and Rangers equivalent with similar resources.

The last 'argument' I read was another of your fictitious and typically apocalyptic versions of the future of semi-professional / amateur football in this country, which was based on nothing of any substance whatsoever. That somehow Scottish non-league football would eviscerate because of the introduction of Old Firm B Teams. I don't see B teams as a quick fix, no - When have I ever said that? I believe it is worth exploring though, on an initial trial period, which is exactly what is about to happen. And at the end of the season, the following day, the sun will rise in the morning and come back down again at night. And we will know what was successful in the trial and what was not - instead of relying on hyperbole and other made up stuff.

Facts, as apposed to your melodramatic doomsday pessimism?

I did not actually say that Belgium had B teams. But happy to expand on Belgium, and the sweeping changes implemented by Michel Sablon. From everyone playing 4-3-3, to NOT focusing on results (WINNING) in children's football. Interestingly, his inspiration was Johan Cruyff... who didn't stop B teams at Ajax or Barcelona.

If the people leading some of the best youth football development programs in Europe believe that the introduction of B Team football was and still is necessary as part of their overall program, chances are there is great substance and qualitative evidence to back their decision making. This in itself makes it worth listening to and following their lead.

On the slide...? For goodness sake. Population 4m? They are and have been punching well above their weight for over 20 years. They won their qualifying group for the Euros, and currently are top of their qualifying group for the 2022 World Cup. The point is, they have an extremely successful youth development program - this is evidenced by the number of young players exported to the best leagues in Europe and by the consistent success of their national team. The player pathway includes B Teams from the top professional clubs. So why is it acceptable in Croatia, but not in Scotland?

Don't then. Just red dot everyone who has a different opinion. All the best

Cheers. Unfortunately, ignorance, pessimism and populist untruths are pervasive. For further reading try FACTFULNESS by Hans Rosling. Ten reasons why we're wrong about the world, and why things are better than you think. The book features 10 instincts that distort our perspective including: Negativity, Fear, Size, Generalization, Blame, Urgency etc. On the subject of B-Teams, we have all this 'best-practice' evidence across Europe to learn from... set against an "Aye Been / It'll never work here / over my dead body" mentality towards change in this country.