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Che Dail

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Everything posted by Che Dail

  1. The 11v4 vote suggests otherwise. B Teams are a success in Europe, and there's no reason why they can't be a success in Scotland. Classic: Man City 4 v 3 Real Madrid midweek and 15 of the starting 22 players featured in B teams across 6 countries: Austria, France, Netherlands, Germany, Portugal, Spain. On average they played 30 games each in a pro B team, typically at tier 2 or 3 in the respective league pyramid against other FT professionals. All of them play for their country. Benzema the best striker around? Played 20 times for Lyon B team at 17-18yr old, it was part of his development. Why not in Scotland? Probably not in the Lowland League, I'd agree - they should be in Tier 2 or 3.
  2. A 'blend' of timing and circumstances, of which B Teams played a part. This is "The hidden side of everything" if you believe the principles behind 'Freakonomics', which inspired 'Soccernomics'.
  3. Nobody said that B teams were suddenly responsible for success - but they undeniably have played a part in many top players' careers and will continue to do so. It is an irrelevance to note that Spain had B Teams since 1940s without dominating international football because there are other more significant factors at play. 1975 was significant in Spain because the country's fascist leader General Franco died. Prior to that, Spain was effectively isolated from the rest of Europe and was a relatively poor country as a consequence of its closed economy. With the growth in economy and wealth which followed political change, so did the country's success in football. Kuper argues that their reputation as 'underperformers' was wrong - it was cliched and misguided, given the country's modest resources of people and wealth. It was simply not big or rich or connected enough to expect to match the leading nations in football. He also asserts that it is possible to draw a direct line between Cruyff's arrival in Barcelona (in 1973) and Spain's victory in Johanesburg 37 years later. Note that Cruyff promoted Guardiola from the Barca B team, and Guardiola cites him as the greatest influence in his career as a player and as a coach. Guardiola is supportive of the idea of B Teams in England - to a similarly conservative audience as we have in Scotland. Whereas in Europe, it is normal, and works. Here's a nice piece on the Man city website: https://www.mancity.com/features/cruyff-way/
  4. For well researched accounts, what to do is order a copy of 'Soccernomics' by Kuper and Syzmanski and go straight to Chapter 18: "Made in Amsterdam: The rise of Spain and the Triumph of European Knowledge Networks" Spain became better than Holland at Dutch (total) football. Indeed, in the 2010 final, the Dutch were accused of 'anti-football', by Cruyff. Yes, they had success in 2014 (3rd place) - but this was the end of a golden generation - and changes were necessary. A lot of the top Spanish players play in B teams - this is quite normal. I'm Scottish, and I've been to the Netherlands. There are a lot of things we're doing very well in Scotland, some of which have roots in the SFA's "2020 Vision" report in 2011 and the follow-up in 2015. I just think we should continue to embrace new ideas and try things which might continue to improve the game here.
  5. You'd need to ask the KNVB who drafted the "Winners of Tomorrow" plan for reviving Dutch football, where the focus shifted to youth. Or Ruud Gullit who, after they failed to qualify in 2016, said, "It is a crisis because you could see all the signs and that it was coming. We have been asleep really. Everybody used to look at us as an example and we were really proud of that. But the other countries have improved..." Others have said they were doomed by an obsession with the past: nostalgia, arrogance and insularity. Which all sounds quite familiar! Jong Ajax went straight in at Tier 2, season 2013/14 (I think?).
  6. Of the team that beat Germany in the 2008 final, only 3 out of 14 Spanish players didn't play in their club B teams. Casillas, Ramos, Machera, Puyol, Capdevilla, Iniesta, Xavi, Silva, Alonso, Carzola, Guila gained B or C team experience, 473 competitive matches between them. That experience played a part in every players' development, and that is undeniable.
  7. I agree with this... Although starting at the bottom in effect would block progress - because they'd likely sail through the leagues preventing other teams from getting promoted, whilst that time spent to get up the pyramid wouldn't achieve the competitive levels required - nobody wins. If anything, I'd be interested to look at it the opposite way round: What happens if the league expands and opens up the 3rd tier, and drop the B teams there immediately.
  8. That there's nothing wrong with a 'blended' approach to player development. B-Teams have their place, alongside other methods.
  9. Well if you ask a silly question you get a silly answer: He's currently a 'goldie' foil Match Attax card, but if hadn't played in a B Team, he might just be a plain card, like Harry Kane. That ok for you?
  10. As you know there are plenty former players at the top level of the game who advocate B-Teams... Sure plenty current players will too, since it formed part of their development.
  11. And how would you like me to quantify a response to this? Using Match Attax card scoring system?
  12. Well, no wonder! To most observers, the EoS league this season has been phenomenal - what has been achieved in such a short space of time, I'd say, is well above and beyond what any club could have expected before moving across from the Junior grade. Yes - there needs to be greater movement between the EoS / WoS and Lowland League - but as things stands that's wholly outwith the control of the leagues below it - hopefully things will change in time. The B-Teams is a side-issue to the real problems with the pyramid - and I believe reform is needed from the top down, which won't happen unless a business-like proposal for re-structuring is put to all clubs to show how everyone wins. If we accept in principle that B-teams can exist alongside established clubs, they really shouldn't be in the Lowland League but further up the chain - as is evidenced by their successful implementation across Europe. And they shouldn't (they currently don't) stop the free-flow of movement between the leagues.
  13. Yeah, when you predicted the cataclysmic downfall of non league-football, which has failed to materialise. Just because you're angry about B-Teams and don't like them, it doesn't mean they're bad. When there's such hostility to an idea in certain quarters, folk just won't engage for fear of getting shouted down by the mob. I's basically a group of like-minded furious people agreeing with each other for 12 months solid - there's no debate or progress - what's the point in that?
  14. Like Germany (after Michael Owen thashed them), the Netherlands recognised something was wrong and have made moves to fix it. Change is generational and not instant. For many years they didn't have to change a thing due to their historic successes. Still, the Netherlands are ranked 10th in the world - which is moderately successful in the great scheme of things. And the success of Spanish football in recent decades has roots in Holland / Cruyff.
  15. The loan system would still work in addition to B-Teams, that won't necessarily stop. And there's no reason why not to have a reserve league - but it doesn't provide the quality or intensity (or regularity due to frequently postponed fixtures) that playing competitive matches week-in week-out against men that is needed for the step up to 1st team football.
  16. FRANCE - 3rd best in the world 17 out of 23 players in their squad played in B teams, incuding Mbappe (Monaco - 12 apps). 391 appearances overall. Average age (current) = 26 What's the problem?
  17. The current Netherlands squad features 15 players with B team experience (in the not too distant past): Flekken, Drommel, de Light (he's good!), Teze, Timber, Wijndal, Til, Klaasen, Koopmeiners, de Jong, Bergwijn (a star?), Danjuma, Lang, Malen, Gakpo. 400 appearances between them in B-Teams The current Spain squad has 18 players with 750 B team appearances between them (not including David Silva, retired - 14 times for Valencia B - he's brilliant!). Portugal: 18 players, 611 B-Team appearances Germany: 17 players, 341 B-Team apps Croatia: 6 players, 81 B-Team apps Ukraine: 12 players, 298 apps Czech Republic: (quite recent, B teams parachuted in at Tier3) 3 players, 107 apps I've not done France yet, but it's a lot too Luddites!
  18. Some of the Braga team that beat Rangers tonight gained experience in B-Teams: Fabiano (Braga B - 22 apps) Carno (Braga B - 4 apps) Al-Musrati (Vitoria de Guimaraes - 40 apps) Ruiz (Barcelona B - 68 apps) Mederos (Sporting CP - 68 apps) P. Oliviera (Sporting CP - Vitoria de Guimaraes - 22 apps, and Sporting CP - 2 apps) V. Oliviero (Brage B - 15 apps) And Karim Benzema, who scored 3 for Real Madrid against Chelsea last night - he played 20 times for Lyon B team. It'll never catch on here though
  19. Although I have nothing against Bonnyrigg and I would be happy for them to get promoted, Fraserburgh or Buckie promoting would be good for speeding up change in the LL. Gretna and VOL being replaced by Cowden and the tier 6 champions would definitely make the league more attractive and increases the chance of a vote to increase relegation passing in the near future. More relegation spots from the Lowland League would be more likely if the number of promotion spots to the SPL was increased. If 3 or 4 clubs moved up and down every season they will quickly find their level. But again, self-interest and collective refusal to adopt progressive change for the betterment of the game prevails. The block is caused by the tier(s) above.
  20. The whole thing needs shaken up. We don't yet have a 'pyramid' in Scotland. The league structure is a 'column', shaped by self interest from top to bottom. If we followed Central European precedent our league structure would be regional at Tier 3 or Tier 4, with B teams at T2 or T3 alongside other full-time professionals. B-Teams feature across a belt of countries from Portugal to Slovakia: 1. Portugal (in T2); 2. Spain (T2); 3. France (T4); 4. Switzerland (T3); 5. Netherlands (T2); 6. Germany (T3); 7. Austria (T2); 8 Czech Rep (T2); 9. Poland (T3); Slovakia (T2)
  21. Nobody, not one single person even said that, except you. Just made it up. Ironic you continually saying other people are thick / brain dead / stupid. Just more of the same parochial nonsense...
  22. Here's one for you... Jadon Sancho... £73m transfer to Man United. I'd expect some of that money will filter back to Watford and Man City who invested in the player's development. His transition from youth to adult pro football included a 3 game stint in the Dortmund B team at just 17yr old.
  23. I don't think it should be exclusive to Rangers and Celtic and I doubt they do either - if other clubs can afford to support a 2nd FT pro team then the same opportunity should be allowed for Hearts/ Hibs/ Aberdeen etc
  24. I agree they need to be at higher level than LL - it's not what they wanted but the best they could get, for now. Certainly wouldn't see any value in starting FT players down in T8 or T9 - would be a waste of time and money and defeats the purpose.
  25. LOL - His 6 x Ballon d'or wins count for nothing, what a loser. But to correct you, he did win the u20 World Cup and a gold medal at the 2008 Olympics among his 148 caps and 75 goals for Argentina. Kenny Dalglish won nothing with Scotland mind - could do with him dusting down the Puma Kings eh.
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