CanadianDee

Well capt, you're basically right about the NM situation. Bain was in the wrong and Parish looked fine up until the last week when he's been bad, hopefully just a blip so NM gets a pass there. But Haber isn't as lazy as he is being made out to be, but he has a different style in that he doesn't run about like a chicken with his head cut off. At Den's Park if you don't cover every blade if grass, and leave the pitch at full time looking like you've just been in a knife fight then you're lazy bastar*. TBF that is an element of our support, not all of it, and I don't know if we're worse for it than other clubs or not. Haber is a better footballer than Moussa in basically every way, but NM is desperate for Moussa to work out so there you go. Allan was basically only being used as a sub by us if you can believe it so when Hibs tapped him up thru 'channels' he told NM he wanted away. Now I'm of the opinion that season long loans should only be voidable if both teams agree and we should've told Celtic to shove it as they were already taking our best defender, but once the gaffer was told by Allan's agent that he would like to move to Hibs McCann said f**k it you don't like it here then beat it, and effectively announced to the world that if you are at Dundee and want out then all you have to is say 'I want out', and you'll be gone faster than a junkie's latest score. Teams have to get tougher and smarter like 'Well were with Moult. ElBak's problem besides the one you mentioned is that he is a freelancer so no matter the instructions when he starts or comes on as a sub those plans quickly go out the window and result in Gowser and trying to police on him on the pitch and NM screaming at him from the sidelines asking him WTF are you up to out here? He is not without some attributes, very fast especially against tiring defences, but he's a seriously flawed player that we wouldn't miss. O'Dea is finished at this level, Holt and Moussa should never play for us again, Wolters is a non-entity that looks a stone heavier than when he played in the Dutch league and is finished here, and ElBak can get with the program or get lost. I support our manager, but his one blindspot is Moussa, and if Murray doesn't score goals for us and Parish doesn't rebound from his horrible last two games then the much heralded signing of Caulker isn't going to make a bit of difference.

I don't agree that he is as lazy as people say he is, he realises that he is being videotaped and any and all future teams will be able to see his performances for all eternity. Some people carry themselves differently, and the way he goes about things isn't exactly inspiring, but I couldn't care less if he finishes a game looking exactly like he started it - perfectly dry, lack of sweat, lack of dirty shorts or bumps or bruises because he MIGHT just score a goal, and today if Parish and Holt don't pull circus routines for their goals then that one goal could've won it for us. Moussa can run about all game, all day for that matter, and come off the pitch soaked in sweat and dirt looking like a tasmanian devil in heat, but who cares because he WON'T score therefore our chances of winning go down exponentially. In a sport that is often decided by one goal I'll take the former over the latter. Personally I'd like to give Henvey and Murray a go, but I've no idea about Henvey's status.

I wasn't being critical of those teams I should point out, I was being critical of mine. We signed two guys that play the same position (Kusunga and Caulker), and one on loan striker (Murray) that we had to swap for the guy (Allan) most likely to give him opportunities to score in the first place. Meanwhile all of the teams around us have been very busy including yourselves getting a brand new strikeforce while NM is bound and determined to play a forward that literally CAN'T score in open play instead of getting together with the BOD and saying 'hey lets get serious here and address our flaws'. I wasn't having a go I just can't believe what I've witnessed the last two games. We've signed two players at a position where we already have about 6 other guys for two spots. Even our keeper who had been the bright spot of our back line going from a no name to Bain's replacement quite admirably has been totally brutal the last twa games. If Murray doesn't score, and our keeper's form continues in the direction it's going it doesn't matter what Caulker does. Moussa, O'Dea, Holt, get in the feckin' sea! Oh, and take Wolters with you. Thanks. p.s. I hate Ciftci, and he's lucky he didn't walk today, but I've never had a quarrel with 'Well fans so good luck in the Cup especially if you get another shot at Septic.

I get that's a funny shot at me, but for the record I am a born and bred Dundonian as are all my family for generations, but my teen years and some of my 20's were spent living in Canada due to my parents work, and I am now a dual citizen, but still live in my homeland. But it's beside the point in that I don't care if Haber were from Mars he is still better than Moussa. I have to say though that in all my time on Earth whether it be Scotland or Canada I've never seen someone who dresses quite like him in the wild. He could still score more goals than Moussa whilst wearing trainers and a pair ripped jeans.

I honestly don't think it has much to do with the pricing although it could be lessened at bit, and there are things the club could be doing to be more engaged with the community, probably a list a mile long that I don't feel like getting into at this point. The bottom line is that the ownership group need to concentrate on what is happening on the pitch as that is why fans come. Can't score goals against the opposition and constantly ship goals so bad they should be accompanied by the Benny Hill music, and you'll never get fans coming back. The Well, Killie, Partick, County, Johnstone have signed about 23 new senior players in the window between them. Dundee have signed 2 senior players (both central defenders). Get the team organized, and not playing like a bunch of guys that were on a bender the night before and the fans coming back will take care of itself over time. Every one of the people that normally go to league games, but took a pass today will probably tell you that they didn't go because they knew we would feck it right up, and we did. Had we gotten through today I think the next round would been different attendance wise if a home tie was drawn. Getting Caulker signed up is great, but he's not going to make a damn bit of difference as long as we are trotting out guys like Moussa every week (cue the moose double at Killie) after saying that. Meanwhile our ownership/BOD worth hundreds if millions of dollars are busy talking about crematoriums and hotels, and flats, and skating rinks, and all the potential of a new stadium. I don't care if I'm sitting in a gold plated heated seat with diamond encrusted programs and waiter service hand delivering me a steak pie and drink straight to my seat if I have to watch what I saw today. Spend money on the product on the field, and that will make everything else you are trying to do as a club easier! Rich guys buying/investing in football teams are doing it for vanity reasons (you don't get involved with DFC if you are looking to make a pile of money), it's always to say that you own a team especially at our level, bar Septic of course. Even the guys that get involved with bigger teams like the Qataris and PSG, it's not a money thing for them it's an ego thing as they are already rich beyond imagination. Our attendance will never change as long as we are a relegation fighting club in the Premiership or a top 3 club in the Championship. We can make slight improvements in pricing and be more involved in the community, but it doesn't matter what the price of a ticket is if whats on offer is like today.

I used to say on here that watching Moussa was going to drive me to drink (the hard stuff, and I'm no much for the drink, and I had few nips today, didn't help the viewing), but I've made a decision today lads. If Moussa, Holt, and O'Dea are ever in the same team on game day I'm going to start injecting smack immediately, and I hate needles, if you believe in a higher power I'm asking for your prayers (I don't, but what the hell it can't hurt) that McCann will not do this to me! I will need to be in a Trainspotting state of mind to continue watching games. I'm begging the manager to not turn me into a junkie. Oh, and a word of advice for young Kerr Waddell - if you want to keep your place in the side don't score goals for us. One bright spot for me was Kusunga as he looked solid, powerful, and could pick a long seeking pass to put a striker one on one the goalie, shame it was to the moose who promptly rolled a pass to their keeper. Any combination of Kusnunga/Meekings/Caulker looks formidable.

This ^^^ it appears you and I Ludo are in the minority regarding the Moussa v Haber debate and I'm baffled by it! Haber won us the game at Hogmanay time against the fermers with his ability to turn a defender and get an actual shot (instead of rolling the ball at the keeper Moussa style) on goal. Moussa will NEVER win us a game. It really seems to be that people don't like Haber the man and they do like Moussa the man based on off the field and on the field 'perception's' of who they are, and I'll admit that Moussa seems like a nice guy that tries hard, and that Haber's fashion thing and nonchalant style on the pitch don't make him an endearing figure. However if one guy gets 10 chances a game and runs around a lot so he is very noticeable, but NEVER scores and another guy only pops his head up 2 or 3 times a game and is not noticeable until he scores I'll take the second guy every time! As far as AJLS goes we all can see that he is no world beater, but if McCann doesn't grab him on deadline day in the summer then we would be firmly rooted to the bottom of the table at the moment without his goals. We can only hope that whatever Parish has been attempting to do the last two games is quickly rectified and he returns to the guy that replaced Bain, and that Murray finds the back of the net because if those two things don't happen then we are done for regardless of how promising a Caulker/Meekings and/or Kusunga partnership looks.

Except for the part where Haber actually scores goals occasionally. People don't like Haber because he is a poser and wears ripped jeans and looks lackadaisical, but I'll take that and a few goals over the trier that never scores that is Moussa! The moose is nothing short of a disaster.

Either this just became a possibility after signing the General or Meekings injury issues are more serious than we're being lead to believe so NMc realized that chances were looking good that our central defensive pairing options of O'Dea/Waddell/Gadz (who seems completely out of the picture) may actually drag us down.

Will you settle for the 'General' Kusunga paired with Steven 'Rob Roy' Caulker instead???

Fellow Dees, as a person that does not follow English football even in a casual way, can somebody catch me up on this lad? Can he play anywhere across the back or is he solidly positioned at CB? Fwiw I just read that he actually does have a Scottish granny so I'll consider this a homecoming, and triumphant return to Scotland and his roots to play for the biggest club in Tayside. Thanks in advance for anyone who gives me the update of what this guy can do. p.s. Is Meekings hurt more seriously than they are letting on?

This isn't a bad team except for the five alarm fire that is Moussa. I'd get our local fashion style icon big Marcus back on the pitch in place of the moose as he can control the ball with his feet and head better than Moussa, and he also knows that the other team has a goal that you are allowed to head or kick the ball into occasionally. Murray can move up and harry the defenders with his pace, and AJLS can hopefully get on the end of some knockdowns and smash home as he is wont to do. IMO it'll be an injustice if AJ gets dropped as his goals per game ratio is pretty damn respectable and far and away the best at our club.

Apparently we have added an English defender alongside the Dutch fella for a trial. Fair to say that Julen has probably made his last fleeting appearance for the club. No way would O'Dea return next season I would think, and Gadz seems to be right out of the loop. When we played ICT in the draw at Dens and Hendry had the flu our defence was shakier than a newborn calf's legs so this weekend should be interesting. I'd be going Waddell and Meekings in the middle, but word is Josh may be a game day decision, and if he can't make it then I gather it'll be O'Dea although at this stage I'd like to see Gadz get back into the mix as O'Dea just looks a mess out there.

I think his keyboard must have the keys all out of whack, and when he went to type in AJLS it came out as Moussa. I think that's fair because nobody can actually want to see Moussa on the field for the Dee unless it's an emergency. I'd just as soon have McCann register as a player than see the moose in action.

If McCann has found another gem, we can then immediately sign him to a 4 year contract only to have that roaster Rodgers (or the *** mob or some English team) start talking him up a month later and then a few months after that we'll see him being unveiled in a Septic jersey after we drop our pants and get spanked again. Being a football fan is so deflating honestly it's hard to believe anybody follows it seriously. I guess we live for the moments like 98th minute match winners, relegating your neighbours, celebrating with pals on away days, and following your team because it's in your blood. I'll be back in my seat hoping we beat County at the weekend because I can't help myself. My Gramps took me to Dens for the first time in 1980, and his Gramps took him to Dens for the first time in 1931 so I am DTID, but I'll be damned if it isn't a kick in the plums a lot of the time. Due to my parents work I spent a lot of time in Canada (as my user name implies) as a kid including my high school years, and when I try to explain how contracts and budgets work in Scottish football to my Canadian friends they are flabbergasted by the whole thing as it's so different to how sports work there. And yes before anyone jumps in and tells me that basically all of world football basically works like Scottish football - a few big teams in the league just run riot over the rest of the teams in the league on and off the pitch - I don't give a s**t about what happens in England or France or Germany, I only care about what happens here sometimes it just feels like beating my head against a brick wall may be a better use of my time than following the Dee. It's an addiction I guess, at least it's better than getting hooked on the smack, I think!

They're not a charity and we know where living beyond our means goes. Keeping Hendry until the summer would not have reduced his value. It's got nothing to do with whether a football club is a charity or not. You don't get involved with Dundee FC expecting to make any real money. These rich guys that get involved with clubs such as Dundee do it because they've always wanted the 'prestige' of owning a sports team, but they are not Arab sheik rich that they can buy a PSG and then plow hundreds of millions of euros into it. There is no reason to get involved with a Dundee FC unless you want try and get a good team on the field otherwise what is the point? Nobody is expecting Keyes to lose ridiculous amounts of money, but the idea that we didn't get bent over today because we are not a 'charity' is bollocks. Maybe if these guys paid more attention to the on field product there'd be more people in the stand. I'll support the Dee forever, but it's disheartening how football is run. Contracts are meaningless when richer clubs want your players, but contracts are ironclad when you want to get rid of a player. As for people that say stuff like 'it's good for Hendry and he'll get a better wage, and once his head is turned' is a bunch of garbage. Hendry signed the 2 year contract - I assume without a gun to his head - and I'm sure would have survived until the summer for his move when we hopefully could've gotten some English clubs involved in the bidding. Furthermore as a fan the player movement in football is ridiculous enough every summer with many teams looking completely different year to year, but now the Jan window you see many teams doing complete mid season overhauls as well. There is no continuity and therefore no affinity between fan and player when as a supporter you've got no idea who's going to be here in a month. The January window needs to be shortened or curtailed in some way, and season long loans should only be voidable only if both teams agree. Yes Celtic did us a favour by loaning us a decent player, but we did them a favour by playing that player when they had no plan for him this season and he just would've sat watching their games so it's a two way street. It's all gotten a bit ridiculous tbh. Every club seems to have one or two players that are lifers, but the other 20 players are just passing through town. I'll support whomever plays in the Dark Blue including Murray, but it's offly uninspiring some days especially when you know that even if NM unearths another Hendry-like gem and sign him to a 6 year deal it won't matter the player will be sold when Septic (or someone else) comes around. And speaking of Septic, that roaster Rodger's talk about how hard done by they are in Europe because they are outspent and don't have good enough competition domestically just speaks to the utter cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy, and arrogance they've got never ceases to astound especially after today. But hey ho that's just my opinion.

Dundee's owners are minted though, but they seem more concerned with this new stadium than the squad on the field.

I hope you laced that can of Irn Bru with a healthy splash of vodka! After this s**tshow the day I'm personally going to have to be drunk to watch the last half of this season, and I dinnae drink much. Could I sue a professional football club for turning me into an alkie??

We'll have to agree to disagree if you think that Moussa is no worse than Haber because then we're clearly not on the same page. Haber can score with his head and his feet, he can hold the ball up and lay it off decently. You may not like Haber, and I get it he doesn't seem that likeable with his ripped jean wearing fashion first lifestyle he seems to be quite the poser, and his often nonchalant appearing attitude on the pitch but he is at least a passable footballer at our level. Don't get me wrong - I hope NMc is searching far and wide for another striker or even two if Haber is out for an indefinite period. I don't know what Moussa is, but it's certainly not a Scottish Premiership centre forward. He may tear up league 2, who knows? Having said that whomever pulls on the jersey on Saturday will get my full backing, and if the moose scores then hallelujah, but him and Haber are not equal in their badness, imo of course.

As things stand Haber and AJLS are our best forward combo, but Haber keeps hurting himself. Possibly hurting himself during his numerous fashion shoots, but seriously every time this year that Haber gets a chance to get back in NMc's good books, and get a look in over the managers golden boy (Moussa) he does well then gets hurt. I've made myself clear on how I feel about Moussa on these forums (drives me to drink), ElBak is very frustrating, but sometimes he is useful against tiring slower defenders, but he gives the ball away so easily and fires the ball at the net when he should be passing and passes when he should be shooting, it really is maddening. Even with a healthy Haber we need at least one more striking option, but if Haber is never going to be fully fit this year then we probably need two more forward options in pronto. Oh, and it sure would be nice to stop conceding comedy goals as well. Please and thank you.

I guess from my perspective any version of a Dundee team with Moussa, O'Dea, Wolters seeing the field isn't our best team. I'd have Haber, Henvey or ElBak2E ahead of Moussa , and O'Dea is my last pick defender (only play in case of emergency) as I'd play Waddell and even Gadz ahead of him, and I'd play literally anyone before Wolters including Spence with a broken ankle. So it's not my first team, but I get your point that McCann maybe saw that as his best team yesterday, I'm just not sure how, and even though I'm a NM supporter this concerns me.

I don't think it is common practice, I've never heard of it. It is however common practice in Cup comps for teams in a higher division to field a less than first rate line-up in the hopes that you can see off a team on a lower rung on the league ladder without say maybe losing your best player to injury in a Cup tie and then scuppering your season. When I saw the team sheet today and saw Hendry and Haber out, and Wolters back on the bench that's what to popped to mind. Also Cup comps are a slow build in that the interest level goes from almost none to over the top insanity as you work your way through the rounds in terms of fan interest, and I don't thing Dundee are in position to be taking anyone lightly, I mean we weren't playing Brora (no disrespect to Brora fans, congrats today, well done) today we were playing a full time pro team that required us to be fully engaged, and we weren't. Ultimately McCann was right though, and although it looked like a ropey performance all the way around it was verging on a job done scenario until he took Gowser off (????) for Wolters. Randy makes James Vincent look like Georgi Nemsadze. I didn't think about the Hendry being cup tied scenario until people started saying it online, but regardless when you look at the teams that have one the Scottish Cup in recent years it is a shot a glory especially with the league title so out of sight every year teams like Dundee should be throwing everything into it, imo.

I heard we tried to have two bounce games that were both scuppered by the weather, so we ended up having and intra-squad game, but your point is valid, and aren't there indoor fields you can get sorted to have a game if your pitch is snowed under or whatever?? I guess the other thing would be who would we play? The lower leagues have no winter break, half the premier teams are away in sunny climes, and would two teams want to have a bounce game at this time of year against one another? Who knows? But in that first 20 minutes you could see which team had played games and which one hadn't!

It did affect the the shambles that was the second goal though as it was Wolters doing his impression of a department store mannequin on the edge of the box that allowed the ICT player to go right 'round him and pass the ball in between our keeper and twa defenders (yes they made a mess of it once that happened, but Wolters abominable efforts out wide allowed the whole thing to unfold. I don't abuse players on here, and I don't shout abuse at games as it's not helpful and makes for a garbage atmosphere that I think makes a lot of players more comfortable playing on the road, but having said that Wolters simply can't play for us again he should be finished here. O'Dea should only be an in case of emergency player. He would be my last pick defender at this point. And Haber (despite his shortcomings) should play over Moussa every second of every game unless he is injured. Alcohol may be my only refuge if I'm forced to continue watching O'Dea, Moussa, and Wolters play. I hope NM has finally learned that only bad things happen when you take off Gowser.

Although I get that every player is different when it comes to the point where their career starts to slide down the cliff normally you would've thought that a 30 yr old defender would still have at least a couple of good years left before the inevitable. I'd argue it's his attitude, and decision making that is the bigger issue than his pace giving out on him, but I suppose one could argue that his poor attitude and decision making is the result of his legs going. Couple that with the younger defenders breathing down his neck at the club, and maybe it's thrown him for a loop that he was going to have to fight for his job this season. I just can't believe that a 30 year old guy is physically losing it as fast as it appears that I think it may be the other issue I mentioned. If he gets his head sorted then maybe he can still play an important role with club this year, but right now he is clearly and rightfully on the bench. Having said that if he gets the nod ahead of Waddell on the weekend he'll have my full backing just like Moussa gets my full backing. Even if they're not who I would pick in my starting eleven I just want a win on Saturday so I hope they all play a blinder at the weekend.