Double Jack D

10 point penalty = no change in final league position. I'm pretty sure there is a rule in England that if the points penalty has no effect on your season then it transfers to the following season. This is to stop teams already relegated from going into admin and effectively avoiding punishment. £160,000 fine to a club with circa £140million debt and not a pot to piss in is hardly a punishment. A 12 month transfer embargo to a club with £140million debt and not a pot to piss in is actually a good thing for them. The embargo should state (and a new rule going forward for all clubs) that until all football debts both foreign and domestic are paid in full at the dates they are due then no new players over 17 can be registered. This embargo should be transferred wherever the SFA licence is transferred. The fact that Rangers fans feel like they have been treated unfairly is astounding! They have actually not really been punished at all.

The best post on this thread yet. The money drop is a myth for all bar Celtic! In time, with a more competetive and improved product through the ability of diddies to produce and hang onto young talented players, the TV revenue would rise again!

I agree, due process should be followed regardless of how much money could be made by individual clubs.

Re the Rangers / Dundee Comparison: HMRC were minority creditors in the Dundee Admin. There is no chance they would accept any penny in the pound deal with any football club hence Rangers are fucked! Ta ta!

What's all this talk about automatically starting in Division 3. If they liquidate the newco should have to apply, and be assessed fairly against other applicants, for the vacant place in Division 3.

New one on me too....

If the SNP become part of this circus trying toget Rangers off then I'll be done with them too. Without wishing to stereotype but I would imagine a significant number of Rangers fans would be more aligned with unionist parties so, politically, I can't see why the SNP would want to become involved in this. That Rangers media site is something else!

It's not an argument..... I am not debating with anyone, this is how I feel about the situation. The SPL has already started my general apathy toward the game in this country. At the end of last season I was gutted not to beat Dunfermline to the title but I'm certainly not gutted to have missed out on the boring SPL. I said before that my intention would not be to punish the Rovers, but don't see the point in going to see a "competition" in which the big two can do whatever they want with total contempt for the rules. Your last two sentences are very true but if Rangers are given anything other than fair treatment they deserve then football in this country will have one less supporter. It wouldn't be "morally wrong" It would be absolutely fucking disgusting and spitting in the face of the rules of Scottish football and the law of the land! They shouldn't even be allowed into Division 3 without following the due process any other club would.

Good point re setting a precedent for other businesses. I hadn't thought of that. In these times the political ramifications of punishing a tax cheat wouldn't be difficult to spin. I don't even think Rangers fans would blame the taxman for their demise!

Ticketus, like any other company, will look after what's best for its shareholders. HMRC's duty is the same but for us as the taxpayer. Ultimately either has to judge a CVA versus the return for their share of the liquidised assets. If the BTC goes against rangers then the total debt to HMRC is around £75million and the debt to ticketus would be around £25million plus penalties should they fail to honour the contract. Rangers have 4 options as I see it 1. Fans raise enough cash to pay off debt. - not even gonna come close! 2. New Owners take over and pay off the debt - Blue Knights are only credible option here but I doubt they have the funds 3. Liquidise and sell all assets to a newco/ Property developer 4. CVA Basically Options 1 and 2 need a miracle. Option 4 is only an option (because of HMRC) if the value is greater than Option 3. Where would the money come from to pay for this? Rangers are hardly an attractive investment that by outlaying £10's of millions just now you are ever likely to see a return on that. Rangers have plenty of fans, they have plenty of thick fans but they don't appear to have any super rich thick fans! Get the liquidiser oot!

I've supported the Rovers since the Frank Connor days. I watched them get promoted as runners up to Meadowbank Thistle from the old 2nd. I was there the day we got hosed 7-1 at Brockville when Frank left. I was fortunate enough to have been around during the Jimmy Nicholl era watching us win the 1st Div twice, League cup, europe....I saw with my own eyes the famous half time scoreboard in Munich. I then watched it all crumble around us as Nicholl left, several players moved on, the Janny took over, got sacked, Tommy McLean showed up for a few days... then in no particular order Iain Munro, Jocky Scott, A Jimmy Nicholl Clone, John McViegh, Peter Hetherston, Tony Calderon... Christ I even saw every Anelka game... and survived that and Dazza's near nosedive to the abyss of the 3rd! I think I qualify for a meaningful emotional attachment. I don't mind if Rangers are saved. I don't mind (well as a taxpayer I would but not as a football supporter) if they settle their debts through a CVA and come out of Admin and remain in the SPL debt free. I don't mind if they are genuinely found not guilty of all the rules they are accused of breaking. If, however they liquidise and are automatically parachuted into the SPL. Also if the SFA shrug off the alleged rule breaking as technically it wasn't the newco then it doesn't matter the emotional attachment I have for the Rovers. It doesn't even matter if the Rovers played no part in the "conspiracy" to get Rangers back in to the top flight. As others have said, this scenario would render fair competition in Scottish football non existant. I'm a huge Raith fan, I love my wee club. I've a few memories that still make me smile and I've loads more that make me cringe with despair but I love them and I love my Saturdays at the game. However, I'm no mug and I will not blindly support a set-up that blatantly has one rule for some and another for others. This may appear harsh on Rovers who may not have a say on the Rangers case. It is not about punishing Rovers though I would just see little point in continuing to watch professional Scottish football when we are blatantly just there to make up the numbers. If Rangers liquidise I feel it gives Scottish football its greatest ever opportunity to provide genuine fairness and give some of the other clubs some credibility. If it is missed by pandering to the old firm for the sake of a few bob from Sky we would be as well having a league of 2 and, I'm afraid, I have no interest in that whatsoever!

I wouldn't ditch the game, just the Scottish League and cup version of it. To be honest I'm quite disillusioned at present but knowing that a club blatantly cheated it's way to the non-competition we now have, it would be unforgivable if they were let off with little more than a slap on the wrist. Either they are treated like any other club or its ta ta! From the fellow diddy club supporters I have spoken to, I'm in a considerable majority! That said, I'm repeatedly told we don't matter and it's all about the OF. We'll see.......

Add the SFL to that too. Any form of pandering to them and giving them special treatment that any other club would not recieve in the same circumstance and I am finished with Scottish Football. There really would be no point!

I wouldn't be happy with it. They should apply and have their application judged like everyone elses for Joining Div 3. It makes no odds to me or my football club if Scottish Football was Rangers-less. I'm of the opinion that, medium to long term, things would actually improve for the Rovers without them!

This is exactly how i feel. It may be pretty harsh on the Rovers but if the SPL bend over to Rangers then I'm finished with Scottish football.

Exactly, then it would come down to whether the big hoose was worth more as a football venue or a housing estate/ shopping centre/ theme park etc. Get the liquidiser oot!

Administrators reckon 11 players will go. In order to save £1million per month I'd have thought it would be nearly 3 times that amount!

The only part I disagree with. It appears they have been taking the biscuit for a lot longer than this season. Get the liquidiser oot, bye bye!

Not if they survive admin and pay their debts of with a CVA. However, if they liquidise then the Newco should have to apply for SFA/SFL/SPL membership like anyone else. If they are granted membership straight into the SPL could it be the dawn of franchises requesting a place in the SPL as opposed to earning it through promotion/relegation. I wouldn't even support their SFL membership request over well run non league clubs. Potentially dangerous times!

The price rise is not really the issue though its the value assessment in paying £17 for 2 hours "entertainment". Whilst its not going to stop people supporting the Rovers, it will make people less likely to come to every game. Going to the Rovers competes with a number of other hobbies that I could do with my precious free time. I try not to miss home games but there are a few times a season where I have a better offer elsewhere for spending my time and hard earned cash. I rarely go to away games now.

Been saying this for years. Combined with Andy C's idea Kirkcaldy really could have it all but for being run by a bunch of inept, small minded cretins!

Amen Brother!

Unfortunately I agree. I still go, but it makes recieving another option on a Saturday that wee bit more difficult to turn down. Scottish Football is drastically overpriced!

I am genuinely in shock that our two forwards from last season appear to be moving up into the SPL. They hardly tore the First a new one last season when scoring goals was our biggest failing and probably the reason why we didn't get promoted! Nevertheless I would wish them every success unless they sign for the Pars. I've seen too many real rovers legends become tarnished by doing that!

Which is why its a good point to bring in rules to prevent these launderers from walking away Scot Free. The only people getting punished at Livvy (as well as at my club and Hearts in the future) is the people who have to mop the mess up afterwards and the creditors. The real people to blame very often walk away, at worst, even steven. I'm not advocating that Livvy are not punished but suggest that there should be rules preventing this from happening in the first place.