crazylegsjoe_mfc

I posted similar after the Celtic game, but the tinkering of personnel whilst remaining stubbornly loyal to the system does baffle me. Yesterday, only Bair and Kelly started the game in the position they finished it. I honestly struggle to think of a game where there are nine positional changes that wasn't a pre season friendly, or this Motherwell team.

Agreed. One of the things that really annoys me in football is this notion that you can't change a winning team. I know that Davor dropped out, but a back five to play Rangers at Ibrox, isn't always going to be your most appropriate back five to play a struggling Aberdeen at home. Especially when all your width comes from full backs, I'd say today's wing backs are more centre backs at this stage of their careers too.

The takes on this thread are laughable. McGregor has been outstanding in a Scotland shirt in the past few years. We have a shape / formula that works, there's no need to be pigeon holing anyone into the team. Having Ferguson as a sub is a nice problem to have. The talk of moving McGinn or McTominay to accommodate him is crazy. Both have been pivotal for us behind the striker - so much so it's prompted McGinn's club manager to play him further forward. The suggestion of moving McTominay to striker is outrageous. His late midfield runs were great last campaign - you lose all of that when you put his back to goal. Our starting XI at the moment is balanced, settled and has players largely playing in their favoured positions. Let's keep it like that.

I remember that shop well. I remember getting a diadora trackie with lumi and purple tints from there Wishy market was another haunt for me. I got a Lazio (if I knew then what I knew now etc), Ajax and that turquoise quarter Liverpool away top from there. Went on holiday that summer (about 7) and a woman saw me wearing my Ajax top at the park and spoke to me in Dutch. Absolutely shat myself.

Thanks mate - just checked it out. I'm a lanky guy and no longer in my prime fitness years so I think a small is out for length and width. A wee bit tempted to still just buy it and put it in a drawer

This one for me. My aunt bought me it as a third birthday present. Infant kits weren't really a thing then I don't think - it was a small boys kit with very carefully cut sleeves and bottom to fit a three year old. The next to I had afterwards were the claret and amber pinstripe away and the black away kit which had two white bands - for some reason I've got a mad attachment to that kit. It wasn't worn by a particularly good team, it's not that nice a kit and by the time I'd got it cheap in Sports Division in Brandon Parade we'd even stopped using it, yet I'm desperate for an adult size one to come up online somewhere. Bizarrely, here is me pictured with Jose Quitongo in it.

One of my early channel five memories is seeing Mikko Kaven playing for Valerenga (I think) against Chelsea, shortly after he left us. I also remember shortly afterwards the Liverpool v Barcelona UEFA cup semi being delayed by 15 minutes to accommodate the longer "who shot Phil Mitchell" episode of EastEnders. European football used to be great back then. Both the UEFA cup and the Cup Winners' Cup had their USPs and winning the cup held more importance back then. Watching a game in September or October where the teams were going for it was class, compared to now where we have the Champions League and two lesser versions of it.

I guess it gives us nine games to suss him out and one more season isn't too much of a travesty on top of that if it doesn't work out. There is probably an option taking him to year 2026 if we don't get relegated, of course.

I had some time to kill so I worked all of this out. In terms of league goals scored, we are actually significantly ahead on this stage last season and ever so marginally ahead on how we finished. I was pleasantly surprised also to discover we are two points better off than we were at this stage last season. However, there is the massive caveat that I really do not see this team, as much as we may be improving, winning 6 and drawing 2 of the final 9 games, scoring 17 goals in the process. To answer your question about assisting your own goal, some places considering being fouled for a penalty an assist - so under those rules, Mika assisted himself against Ross County. They're never awarded with both though. This season: 29 games 41 goals - 1.41 goals per game. Last season: 38 games 53 goals - 1.39 goals. Last season (at this point): 29 games 36 goals - 1.24 goals. This season: 1. Bair (11 / 41) - 26.8% 2. Spittal (7 / 41) - 17.1% 3. Biereth (6 / 41) - 14.6% 4. Wilkinson (3 / 41) - 7.3% 5. Vale (2 / 41) - 4.9% 6. Mugabi (2 / 41) 7. Casey (2 / 41) 8. Slattery (1 / 41) - 2.4% 9. Obika (1 / 41) 10. Halliday (1 / 41) 11. Paton (1 / 41) 12. Nicholson (1 / 41) 13. Blaney (1 / 41) 14. Devine (1 / 41) 15. Ross (1 / 41) Last season: 1. Van Veen (25 / 53) - 47.2% 2. Spittal (6 / 53) - 11.3% 3. McKinstry (4 / 53) - 7.5% 4. Slattery (4 / 53) 5. Johnston (3 / 53) - 5.7% 6. Tierney (2 / 53) - 3.8% 7. Efford (1 / 53) - 1.9% 8. Solholm (1 / 53) 9. Moult (1 / 53) 10. Mandron (1 / 53) 11. Goss (1 / 53) 12. Obika (1 / 53) 13. Mugabi (1 / 53)

He's on 11 goals and 9 assists in all competitions this season. One more assist makes him the first player to get double figures in both since Lionel in 2013/14. If he'd got the same "numbers" as last season (6 goals / 7 assists) I'd have been more than happy with that return. Him being just as good lately you can probably attribute to him not having to play wing back or as a deep lying midfielder.

I stand to be corrected if necessary, but can anyone point me in the direction of a challenge involving a Scottish team other than Celtic or Rangers that Sue Smith and Stephen Warnock have analysed?

From memory, the kit was actually for the following season (2005/06) but had just been released in the club shop, so we wore it in the final game of the season, presumably to punt it. It was more claret and amber than the monstrosity of a home kit we had at the time.

Before we kick another baw, the two teams we'd be vying for top six with will play two teams below us. It's hard to know what the ideal outcome is, but given what we've been through so far this season, incredibly glass half empty I know, but I think I'd be happy enough to start writing off top six early for Hibs to beat Ross County and Dundee to beat Aberdeen. Dundee or Hibs will likely be in the top six anyway - I'd rather they took points off those below us in doing so.

I started going to games in February '97 and we then beat them four seasons in a row. The Willie Falconer one was the day before my 8th birthday which I remember fondly. I didn't think then that would be beat them in the league two years later, then not again until yesterday

I must admit to having that thought too. Like when John Boyle asked the cooper stand to move for Skippy Sunday, then when they voted no, he moved them without consultation for the next one.

It was pointed out in a WhatsApp group that there was no alternative to voting digitally and that may have affected turnout. Although, I guess those not digitally clued up probably would fall into the older age bracket largely - something tells me they would have strengthened the outcome we did see. I appreciate I've double stereotyped there, but that's my gut feeling. I was surprised by the outcome, most of the views I've seen seemed to be against it. However, I need to appreciate the fact that I read and chat Motherwell on here and on WhatsApp groups with my mates whilst deliberately avoiding Steelmen Online and Twitter, means I definitely don't get the full picture. Playing devil's advocate to my own vote - there will be 'Well Society members who have no interest in fan ownership, who only contribute for the preservation of the club who are now happy that there's another option. There have been parts of me over the past year or so, that has thought that certain incidents wouldn't have happened by a business ran where someone's capital was at stake - not appointing a CEO for a year, failing to communicate the manager's contract extension (as well as several players), having to get that structural work done twice etc. The bottom line for me was that we could thoroughly vet who we sell the majority stake to this time, but that's the last time we would have a say. It could be sold to a Whyte, Mileson, Romanov-esque type who runs us into the ground, or to someone like the fella from Dundee Utd who runs them rather unsustainably. I'd be happier finding our level of sustainably running the club, than I would be chasing glory in the short term. Especially now when you think the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen are still struggling despite high spending, there's no guarantee we would get ROI even in a football sense, never mind a financial one. I know the idea of that doesn't appeal to all of our fans. I know we all like to moan and vent naturally, but it seems many of our fans think we should expect better than a young manager and young players making mistakes. Had we to drop levels to keep the club going sustainably, that wouldn't appeal to a lot of people. I wonder if there is any scope for transparency on how the quoted numbers of members are broken down. How many paid a lump sum at the start, how many are contributing monthly etc. I'd like to know what constitutes an "active member". There will be people who could have paid a lump sum in 2012 but no longer contribute, yet have given more money than someone paying £5 a month for the last five years. There was obviously also a point where we handed out memberships to players - I don't think Theo Robinson or Jacob Blyth are voting on the proposals.

Just catching up on the defence chat before the thread inevitably goes back to society chat. I would keep SOD, like @capt_oats said the criticism some give him at times is overboard for me. He's dependable, can fill in a number of positions and is a good pro. Throw into the equation that I don't think he's ever really suffered an injury? Onboard with @thisGRAEME and @Busta Nut on Mugabi. There's been so many times over recent years that we've thought it's the right time for a player to leave, then we replace them with someone who is worse. I would like him to be first sub in an ideal world though - I would really like us to replace him with a starter in there. McGinn I would definitely keep. Casey has poor but I'm not giving up on him yet - I reckon he could return to form. Blaney, like I said in my last post hasn't made me feel too much one way or another about his performances. It feels like him moving on for first team football might happen. I don't think anyone thinks keeping Butcher is a good idea now.

Bevis seems a lovely big chap and he puts his heart in soul into it. For me, he's too clumsy around the box and not good enough on the ball to be first choice. When this is the line of chat when he's had a good run of games, he's normally not far from a moment to bring us back down to earth. Blaney is a weird one. He's played enough games and I've seen enough of him to judge him by now, but I still feel like I've got no idea if he's any good or not.

Obviously 3 wins in 25 looks bad written down. But in our lowest ebb this season, we picked up 1 point in 7 games. In the seven games we followed that we picked up 5 points. In the seven games which followed that we picked up 10 points. Regardless of what we think about the number of games won, that is form on an upward trajectory and we would be cutting our noses off to spite our faces. Since that run of 1 point in 7 games, we have accrued 18 points in 17 games, which lets be honest, for where we are in the world at this moment, is decent enough. If you want to spin it further, since we managed to get that illusive victory, we've accrued 13 points in 9 games, which again is good. The only blots in those 9 games are a defeat to Celtic and a defeat to Hearts at Tynecastle, which lets be honest, those were the pools forecast scores that day anyway. Do you want Kettlewell to rot on mistakes / bad results from the Autumn now? I think there must be a cut off where results in October stop becoming relevant to trot out the "X wins in Y" line. This line of thinking reminds me of when Scotland sacked Gordon Strachan for Alex McLeish on the back of four wins and two draws in his last six games, for drawing against Lithuania a year previously.

Agreed. I actually really enjoyed the post-split fixtures last season, watching us play well under no pressure.

Enjoyable and entertaining football, are you sure you support the right club? I think you are being very harsh in saying that issues haven't been resolved. Sure, we are still conceding lots of soft goals, but looking at the bigger picture - how can you say that issues haven't been addressed when we went from a spell of losing 6 games out of 7, to losing 5 in 17 since? Only one of which wasn't to a team in the top three. The recent games against Hearts and Celtic is the first time we've been beaten back to back since.

I only read the thread after the game last night, some of the overreaction was hilarious at half time. It was very clear to me that Gent and Vale were being "managed" or "rested" rather than dropped. Poor goal to lose (Casey again) in the first half, but as much as we weren't amazing, I didn't think we were ever far out it. The second half we were great, getting 45 minutes out of Vale when the game had opened up was the best way to use him last night. SOD had a hand in both goals and a terrific defensive header. At times, Miller looks so good it makes it appear like he is the experienced player and everyone else is 17. The bad news about Spittal is that with every passing week, we know he won't be here next season. The good news about Spittal is that with every passing week, we know he won't be at St. Mirren next season. I criticised Kettlewell for his use of subs on Sunday, so only fair to credit him for them last night. Blaney coming on for Devine and being a straight swap rather than rejigging everything was refreshing, hopefully that was a learning from Sunday. It is possible to be critical about something that Kettlewell has done, without questioning whether he should still be manager, by the way

We obviously had such a surplus of centre backs as well as going all out to sign Casey this summer. I do wonder what we would have done had he not come back at the 11th hour - I wonder if we would have gone out to sign someone or whether the plan was to play Lamie or Blaney. Sadly between injury and form, we've not quite seen the Casey of last season.

I agree that Turnbull's style probably is more suited to playing somewhere like Italy or Germany than it is for the rough and tumble of the Championship or the likes. He might have only had concrete offers from Norwich or Celtic, but the "wee guy" in him probably made it clear to his agent from the get go that he didn't want to move far from home, so no feelers were put out. On the other hand, Johnston's agent probably new he fancied it abroad and was therefore pimping him out right, left and centre to European clubs.

I just voted against the Well Society losing it's majority shareholding. I didn't join instantly myself. From memory it was £300 to join in the beginning before they started monthly memberships and the fact that I was a student at the time, coupled with the fact that team was class meant that £300 from any Motherwell budget would be going on away days or euro trips back then. If I'm honest, after that, for a few years, I wasn't as interested or engaged in joining, until I did so just before the pandemic. I'm still very pragmatic about fan ownership - if I think it's the best solution I'll be for it, if I think it's not I'll be against it - but for us, I genuinely think the 'Well Society having a majority shareholding is what is best for the club. Say the club sold it to a wealthy man, with no ulterior motives or red flags. They could run the club successfully for a period of time, but that won't last forever. At that point, they will want to sell the club for the best deal possible and probably won't be concerned who to and us as fans won't have a say in it. That's what sells it to me - having a say in this investor, the next investor and the one after that. Looking at the figures @capt_oats posted of our P&L since being fan owned, it's actually fairly encouraging. Getting to two cup finals in one season and selling David Turnbull does appear to have helped us run for a few years and had we not had to do the structural work and then subsequently fix it, things would be looking very kind on the bank. It's really hard to be overly critical of finances, when we have money in the bank and generally remained in the black due to the aforementioned cup finals and player sales, which is actively our model. Not to mention surviving a pandemic and giving free season tickets out the following year. My obvious concerns around that model going forward are how much we shit the bed in cup competitions and how much Brexit has affected our youth players even reaching the stage where they get to a professional contract for us. Part of me does think that we are seeing Lennon Miller in our first team just now because his Dad was a pro himself and seems to have his head screwed on to advise him on what's best for his career. I reckon most others in his shoes would've taken the McAlear / Leitch / McKinstry route by now. I also have doubts about our ability to "buy to sell" in today's market, given Slattery and Kelly's three year deals look like they will be seen out without any serious interest. I am definitely of the thought that a hybrid model of the society and outside investment is the best thing going forward. I have serious concerns about growth in the society. In thirteen years, surely there are very fine margins to be gained by new members? I'd imagine just about everyone interested would've signed up now. Are we reliant on current members upping their monthly payment? With the area not being the most affluent and the climate we are in, there might not be the biggest scope for this. I also think in so many ways the horse has bolted in terms of re-engaging disengaged fans. I do also think that it would be a tough sell for someone with no link to the club to invest, without getting the biggest say for it. Ultimately, if we continue to go down The Well Society route, we might see a drop in our standard of player, we may see us drop divisions and find it tough to come back, but at the end of the day we'll still have the club. As much as it may not appeal to others, that's good enough for me.