Cornishman

Give us Georgia, godsdammit!

Average English 'tier 5' attendance for 2018-19 was just under 2000.

If Premier gains an LL club without promoting one back, let it play with 17 club membership for the following season, adding one extra relegation place for that following season. Regular relegation ought to be bottom three + fourth-bottom to participate in a play-out versus three First Division teams. In First Division, three champions promoted + three sets of playoffs between 2nd. to 5th.-placed sides, the three winners of which then join Premier-13th. in that play-out. If any First Division teams in top-5 cannot for any reason accept a promotion, then qualification in their division would simply drop by one place. If more than one club cannot accept promotion, then after the above, the playoff 'zone' would be reduced accordingly, never taking lower than 6th.-place finishers. In the first instance, the topmost playoff qualifier would receive a bye in the first playoff round. Were a First Division to entirely fail to produce a champion, it would be unable also to provide a playoff challenger. In this case, direct relegation would be reduced by one and the reprieved 14th.-placed team would instead join the 13th.-placed team in the play-outs. If that First Division instead promotes a champion, but has no playoff candidate, then Premier-13th. team will receive a bye in the first play-out round. For any further 'inabilities to promote, priority will then be given to reprieves, dropping play-out places down the Premier table and sorting playoff qualifiers on a PPG basis. NB* - 'Champion' in above references implies 'highest placed First Division team which is able to accept promotion'!

Going back to the mid to late '70s in (as Zimbabwe was then known) Rhodesia, there was a team called, 'Glens Strikers' who competed in the Rhodesia National Football League (Northern Section) Division 5 in the '76 season. That year they won 34 straight League matches, most by a margin of 10-20 goals and a couple exceeding 20. They were jump-promoted to Division 2 for the '77 season and repeated another 100% win record over 38 more League games, most victories now in the 6 to 12 goal margin. In the '78 season, again jump-promoted two levels, they finally met with some matching resistance in their new (Northern Section) Premier Division League surroundings and now, entry into the RNFA Cup. In this season they still won all but four of 38 League matches, drawing the others and then went on to win playoffs for the right to enter the RNFL's flagship National Division. They were defeated just the once in the Cup, having been drawn against strong National Division opponents. In the '79 season, they were a poor to middling outfit in the National Division and after that, I lost track of footie in that country. That was an admirable playing record most certainly, but to be honest even that cannot be guaranteed being 'THE' Zimbabwean record, as runs such as these are reasonably common in African organised lower divisional football, and must also be so in equivalent echelons worldwide! For reference purposes, ignoring top-level professional African teams, most football there is strictly of Scottish amateurs-equivalent status.

I agree your first point. It may no longer be as clear cut, however there's a helluva lot of inertia against 'League' teams having to drop out of 'national competition' if relegated... and I recall much ado five or more years past about this, basically becoming one of the founding precepts for forming a semi-national division akin the HFL to accommodate those relegatees for whom the HFL would not be 'a fit'. I'm afraid I'm unable to quote chapter and verse, sorry. Your second point may well be valid, but it's palpably not the only 'scuttling measure' in town; naming no names. I strongly suspect that despite these spiking-guns attempts, the SFA will eventually prove to have almost all such parties/cliques over a proverbial barrel before too long. I do not think the SFA is prepared to be long thwarted in their organisational plans. I have no illusions that progress will be made at any rapid pace, surely it will be a long drawn out attrition. I DO think that if not very careful, the SJFAs might well achieve the Pyrrhic victory of retaining their own largely unaltered structures - but doing so will see these slowly slipping down the reorganised levels of the game, not because there'll be any tacit punishment for failure to engage, no. Rather, the available players of particular levels of skill, until recently happy to ply their trade in the Juniors, will now find more opportunities to do so within the slowly expanding ranks of the evolving Senior Pyramid. If Junior clubs don't begin to fill the LFL (Premier Division, we'll call it.), then it'll be the BSC Glasgow & Edusports Academy clones plus Cumbernauld Colts & East Kilbride wannabes who will begin filling the inevitable LFL West & LFL East feeder divisions... taking away yet more players from the not infinite pool that the Juniors depend upon! It's simply all about better mousetraps in the end. Mark me, writing has been writ deep upon the wall. Remember: I'm apologist for neither side, Junior or Senior. This is just my predictive opinion on how I perceive the situation to be actively evolving. True, my OP model IS an 'utopianist' dream, hoping for a 'best possible compromise' between all parties - it's also attempting to be reasonably realistic, too. I've tried to put as much careful thought and willingness to compromise into the idea as I can - but I DO hear and respect others opinions upon mistakes/improvements... and will always try to respond creatively to solve any found.

Oh, I agree. Problem is that in real-life the SPFL only countenance a two-way split extremely reservedly, while any three or more-way split is summarily dismissed. While my model is 'fantasy', it does attempt to address not just the geographic reality, but also the rather inert, intransigent attitude of the SPFL too. It's a compromise solution. A shedload of compromises, in fact. The SPFL keeps its four sets of championship contests v. non-league top divisions shuffled-up to Level 4. SPFL sacrifices national play at Level 3 v. wholesale promotion of 8 clubs to national Level 2. SPFL agrees 3 or 4 relegations to non-league v. bottom of Level 3 'buffered' by influx of 24 non-league clubs. Juniors guaranteed top-division non-league placement, retaining all three traditional Regions. Junior promotees to SPFL insulated from national play upon promotion. Non-league promotion still optional, extended to invite perhaps as far down as 3rd./4th.-place if champions/runners-up defer. Final (4th.) SPFL relegation place by playoff (if required), following Level 3 17th. v. 17th. play-out. Those are the basics, based upon the current realities taken to logical conclusions, steered just so, with as little disruption as possible. Of course, some Junior clubs could be accommodated at a higher entry level in the envisaged process, but the illustration IS; as mentioned; just showing the idealised, least disruption scenario, and more, is over-simplified to show the system as it would have looked were it for this 2015-16 season, and introduced in one fell swoop instead of partially over three seasons as is actually intended. To the commenter querying Ayr United's position: The illustration is based on end-2014-15 positions.

Oh, indeed. However, it's now an incontrovertible fact that the LFL will hereon be senior to the whole Junior organisation, and; much like the English Northern League who failed to engage & integrate with the Pyramid when they were equal in status to the Northern Premier League; the Juniors will become systemically further & further sidelined the longer they take, dropping Levels in the Pyramid as years pass. It would likely have been very different, with probably 8-10 Juniors initially elected into the LFL alongside a half dozen of the best EoSL/SoSL teams by now, had they just made the necessary 'leap of faith' ~ which is not such an unattractive supposition. However, it didn't happen, so the situation is as visualised above. Comme si, comme ca! And as regards the North... yep, that's definitely so to begin with, but after 5-10 seasons the gap would close. It took the English Alliance League (later Conference, now National League) several seasons before the prior season's FL relegatee failed to win immediate promotion. It would be very similar here.

I'm writing as an interested non-SFA/SJFA-aligned observer from outside Scotland. NB - This opens with a lot of SPFL discussion, but bear with it, as it reaches non-league issues as it progresses... I can clearly see that 'The Pyramid' in Scotland; while utterly needed and created in a well-meaning way; has been bumbled together with a major lack of insight. It doesn't need to stay that way. That which has been put together so far is not a bad place to start from, to begin creating a 'proper' Pyramid that everyone can appreciate and enjoy. That process will in its course also address some perceived gripes with the current set-up and hopefully solve them. Firstly. The SPFL point-blank refuses to engage with relegation from its bottom tier, unless its relegatees are guaranteed at very least semi-national competition, meaning there should be no more than two feeder 'zones'. This clashes with the traditionally historic and holistic three-way separation of the country's non-league footballing 'zones'. Secondly, in the SPFL itself there are only 42 teams and these are split vertically into four distinct national tiers, which whilst a working paradigm, leaves much to be desired in terms of limiting opportunity for lower tier clubs to reach the higher tiers (too many promotions required). [ii] geographic footprint size in the lowest tier(s). [iii] boring fixture repetition in the inevitable double round robin match schedule. This is countered by there being a doubling in the number of championships to be won (compared to a more 'normal' two-tier divisional split for 42 teams) and a concomitant increase in relegation places - both factors creating more interest. However, the central argument for 'delivering fewer meaningless games' that spawned this four tier development remains deeply suspect, as in fact it is & has been statistically far more usual for these smaller divisions to continue to present 'normal' deviations from the mean (in points-scoring) than the 'bunching' of points-scoring that had been (erroneously) expected by the four tier proponents. All in all, compounded with that double round robin, it meant teams would on average just become separated by greater points differences than before - thus nullifying the expected beneficial effect. Almost all of these 'problems' could be wiped out by the expedient of absorbing (maybe as many as) 24 of the top non-league clubs into the SPFL system over a number of seasons. For illustrative purposes I'll deal with three seasons, with eight inductees per season. Season 0: SPFL structure:- 12-10-10-10 Season 1: SPFL structure:- 12-18-10N/10S Season 2: SPFL structure:- 12-18-14N/14S Season 3: SPFL structure:- 12-18-18N/18S Note that SPFL sponsorship(s) should increase on the basis that the publicity reach has so expanded! There should be no question of dilution here, with on-the-ball SPFL negotiators. Also, SPFL having now been boosted to 66 clubs, the lowest 36 already playing semi-national football, the relegation transition to a three-region non-league should be acceptable. Admittedly, this would take away the HFL & LFL in their present forms, but the former could readily reform itself with intakes from the SJFA North region & NCL. There'd be no need to reform the LFL, as its rump members, alongside the EoSL/SoSL would integrate into the SJFL East/West regions. This ought accord well with the SJFL, bringing them to the pinnacle of the non-league game in East & West regions, and in all but name in the North region, plus they would all then occupy the new fourth tier (from fifth/sixth), with the further advantage of semi-national play should their champions choose to step up to the third tier SPFL divisions. Of course, that chestnut of 'where an ex-SJFL relegatee should drop to in the SJFL system' would immediately be solved - as they could not be dealt with differently to the traditional SPFL clubs! Also, as in lower reaches of the English Pyramid, there would be enshrined a 'right to refuse' promotion, with a proviso that a 2nd./3rd. or maybe even 4th.-placed club could be invited to go up - and that would be direct promotion, not subject to play-offs methinks. This would usually provide three promotees, so perhaps there could be an SPFL play-out between its two third tier 17th.-placed clubs, loser drops out. Perhaps even winner to play-offs vs. three 2nd.-invitees from the three SJFA top divisions? I could see that work! I cannot see any (obvious) flaws in this idea, but I'm happy to be proved wrong, discuss at length and try to overcome objections. Likewise, clarify if I've confused on any issue. What would this all look like in practice? Based on end of last season... SPFL Premier I've assumed would remain unchanged. SPFL Championship Airdrieonians Albion Rovers Alloa Athletic Brechin City Cowdenbeath Dumbarton Dunfermline Athletic Falkirk Forfar Athletic Greenock Morton Hibernian Livingston Peterhead Queen of the South Raith Rangers St. Mirren Stranraer SPFL Division 1 North Arbroath Brora Rangers Buckie Thistle Clachnacuddin Cove Rangers Deveronvale East Fife Elgin City Formartine United Forres Mechanics Fraserburgh Inverurie Loco Works Montrose Nairn County Stirling Albion Turriff United University of Stirling Wick Academy SPFL Division 1 South Annan Athletic Ayr United Berwick Rangers BSC Glasgow Clyde Dalbeattie Star East Kilbride East Stirlingshire Edinburgh City Edinburgh University Gala Fairydean Rovers Gretna 2008 Queen's Park Selkirk Spartans Stenhousemuir Vale of Leithen Whitehill Welfare HFL/SJFA North Premier Banks o' Dee Culter Deveronside Dyce Juniors FC Stoneywood Fort William Golspie Sutherland Halkirk United Hermes Huntly Inverness City Keith Lossiemouth Maud Juniors Rothes Strathspey Thistle SJFA/SoSL West Premier Arthurlie Auchinleck Talbot Beith Juniors Glenafton Athletic Hurlford United Irvine Meadow XI Kilbirnie Ladeside Kirkintilloch Rob Roy Lochar Thistle Newton Stewart Petershill Pollok Shettleston St Cuthbert Wanderers Troon Wigtown & Bladnoch SJFA/EoSL East Premier Bo'ness United Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic Broxburn Athletic Cumbernauld Colts Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare Fauldhouse United Hill of Beath Hawthorn Kelty Hearts Leith Athletic Linlithgow Rose Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale Newtongrange Star Penicuik Athletic Preston Athletic Sauchie Juniors Threave Rovers Not exactly how it'd look if, as I stated above, its development were staged over three seasons, but the illustration's enough to let you get the right general impression. It could, of course be developed more slowly - say, over six seasons, inducting four teams per season. As long as divisional memberships were kept at 10 (36 match season); 14 (39 match season) or 18 (34 match season) throughout it would work just fine. Even an odd 12 (33 match season) would remain acceptable in the build-up process.