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bluedragon

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  1. Another piece of information - The People (7 July 1963) reported: “And [Bristol] Rovers have added 23-year-old John Boyd from East Stirling to their goalkeeping staff”.
  2. John Litster’s records have two possibilities that could be the same player: 1) John R Boyd signed for East Stirlingshire in February 1958 from Maryhill Juniors. From then he appears to have played in virtually every league and cup game up to and including the 1959/60 season. In the 1960/61 season he only makes a solitary league appearance. That could tie in with him going on National Service. 2) There is another goalkeeper, John Boyd, who signed for Stenhousemuir in August 1964 but did not play any league matches. He signed from ES Clydebank. That could be the same player.
  3. Here is the photograph of the unidentifed trophy. Although it is grainy it is possible to spot some differences with the much clearer images of the Renfrewshire Junior Cup.
  4. Thanks Gogsy. You have found one of our missing forenames. William Brackanridge Keenan played for Clydebank and West Calder United before going to Rochdale for the 1938/39 season. In that BNA link it shows him as "right back William Keenan (Rochdale)" in the list of Armadale Thistle players for the 1941/42 season. We have found another two forenames and so I will edit the previous post to take the three players off the list. Thank you.
  5. Thank you for posting those very clear photographs. The detail shows that the mystery cup is not the Renfrewshire Junior Cup. Back to the search!
  6. I wonder if anyone can help by posting a good quality image of the Renfrewshire Junior Cup and any other information, e.g. previous winners, etc. of the competition. With others I am trying to identify a grainy image of a cup from the 1880’s/1890’s. So far we have drawn a blank but an equally grainy image of the Renfrewshire Junior Cup appears to be the best match. A better image of the Renfrewshire Junior Cup would be a great help. Thank you.
  7. We now have collected information on 433 matches played by Junior Scotland. We have 2,418 players listed. However, we are still missing a forename(s)/first initial(s) for several players who played for one of today’s clubs. It is difficult to find forenames from these times as newspaper reports, line-ups, etc. only included a surname. One of the other problems is that with many line-ups collected from newspapers there is a risk I have a mis-spelling of some surnames. Anyway if anyone can help in any way it would be very much appreciated. Thank you. Here is the current list. (I) indicates that the player played in an international match. Ashfield - Dysart (I) (1901) Blantyre Victoria - Robertson (I) (1915) Cambuslang Rangers - McIntosh (I) (1921) Cumnock - Cumming (1916); McCracken (1921) Dalry Thistle - Carroll (1921) Darvel - Ross (1922); Findlay (I) (1927) Dundee Violet - Young (1916) Dunipace Juniors - Mackay (1906); Robertson (1906); Ferguson (1921) Fauldhouse United - McMeekin (1926) Glasgow Perthshire - Abrams (1926); Bennie (I) (1927); Keith (I) (1926); Menzies (1926); McKay (1921) Hall Russell's - Soutar (1927); Baxter (1941) Kilbirnie Ladeside - Carroce (1920) Larkhall Thistle - Paterson (1921) Maryhill - Johnstone (1921) Renfrew - Brown (I) (1916 & 1920) Shettleston - Cassidy (1911); Jamieson (I) (1924); White (1939) Vale of Clyde - Weeks (1893); Paterson (1939) Vale of Leven - O'Hare (1920) Yoker Athletic - Gray (1915); Kennedy (I) (1927) EDITED on 11 October 2019 to delete three players whose forename/initial have now been found.
  8. Fiona the only footage I have seen is the link posted by “Brig o’Lea” of the 1925 Junior Cup Final where your grandad scored a goal in the first replay. As “Gogsy” has said although he played five times for Junior Scotland he did not score a goal. The 1925 Junior Cup Final football was filmed by Harry Kemp who I understand came from a family of showmen and who ran the first cinemas in Saltcoats. He realised that filming local events, etc., especially crowd scenes with local people, brought customers to his cinema. That said, he must have filmed more matches involving local clubs and players. However, I doubt that his cameraman travelled too far. Four of your grandad’s Junior Scotland matches were played relatively far away (Tynecastle Park, Edinburgh X 2, Pittodrie Park, Aberdeen and Solitude, Belfast) but the 1928 match against Wales was played at Firhill, Glasgow. I am sure Harry Kemp would have seen the benefit of getting some film of local players representing Scotland. It might just be there is some footage somewhere of your grandad playing for Junior Scotland. There must be an archive somewhere of films made for Harry Kemp. William and James McLellan have the unique distinction (so far as I know!) of being the only brothers to have played alongside each other in a winning Junior Cup team and for Junior Scotland. In those days the Junior Scotland team was selected by a committee and the results were not noted for consistency! For your grandad to not only have played in all three internationals in 1928 but captain the side in all three games was a rare achievement.
  9. I wonder if the photograph dates from the 1934/35 season when Harp won the Dundee & District Football League rather than the 1933/34 season as stated. There are eight caps on display. Six caps are being worn and two are on the small table at the front. In my earlier post I mentioned that travelling reserves were presented with caps. If it is the 1934/35 season then I think the eight caps belong to the following players in the line-up. Back row (from left) – J Dunn (secretary), A Brown (1935 v England – reserve), Tommy Adamson (1935 v Ireland), W Cameron (trainer). Front row – A Fergusson (1934 v Ireland), Hector Duncan (1932 v Wales), G Walls (president), P Coleman (1930 v Ireland & 1930 v Wales - reserve), R Boag (1933 v England & 1934 v England). I think Tommy Adamson might be the key to dating the photograph. He only played in one international (1935), however, he appears to have come under the selectors’ view at the end of the 1933/34 season when he was selected in the reserve XI for the last international against Wales on 21 April 1934. However, he does not appear to have been selected as the travelling reserve as he was selected to play for Harp on the day. I cannot find him a travelling reserve in any other matches. However, it is always possible he was called in at the last minute for the Wales game to be the reserve, received a cap and that could make the photograph 1933/34!. Another bit of information. Hector and Jimmy Duncan were one of only two father and son combinations capped for Junior Scotland and played for the same club. The other was George and Willie Westwater of Dunipace.
  10. That is a great photograph posted by Dindeleux. Here is some more information that might help your project. Lochee Harp have had 13 players who won 22 international caps for Junior Scotland. Between them they also played 9 matches for Junior Scotland against non-international opposition, e.g senior clubs, junior selects, benefit matches, etc. The club had seven other players who only played in non-international matches. In the photograph A Brown was travelling reserve for the match against England in 1935 and received a cap although he did not play in the match. He is therefore not included in the list below. We have David Coleman in our records but the photograph has P Coleman and we have a different spelling for Ferguson/Fergusson. If anyone knows the correct version of either that would be great. JUNIOR INTERNATIONALISTS In the first set of brackets after the player’s name the first number is international matches and the second number is other matches. The year or year range in the second set of brackets is when they played for Junior Scotland. Tommy Adamson (1-0) (1935) Kinnaird Auchterlonie (1-0) (1939) Dicky Boag (2-1) (1933-1941) Frank Chaplin (2-1) (1936) Bobby Cochrane (1-0) (1954) David Coleman (1-0) (1930) Hector Duncan (1-0) (1932) Jimmy Duncan (1-0) (1954) Alec Ferguson (1-0) (1934) Johnny Mauchland (2-0) (1937) Hamish McKay (3-0) (1986) Mike McManus (5-6) (1978-1989) Tommy Robertson (1-1) (1959-1960) NON-INTERNATIONAL MATCHES ONLY Wilf Allsop (0-1) (1949) Alex Boyd (0-1) (1948) Harry Cant (0-2) (1949-1950) Matthew Conway (0-1) (1946) Bert Duffy (0-2) (1935-1941) Emilio Pacione (0-1) (1941) Ian Robb (0-1) (1961)
  11. From further back! On the afternoon of Saturday 14 March 1959 the Irvine Meadow team trooped off Davie Park, Blairgowrie after a stamina-sapping Junior Cup tie on a slippery, wet and heavy pitch. On the following Monday evening with only one change to Saturday’s team they were at St Andrews Birmingham to play a strong and full-time Birmingham City reserve team. Meadow were 2:0 up after 10 minutes and narrowly lost 3:4 due to an 89th minute penalty. Taken all together that was a superb achievement.
  12. The late Tommy O’Hara won three Junior international caps in the 1970/71 season while at Kirkintilloch Rob Roy. He also represented the United States of America in a friendly international against Trinidad & Tobago in Port of Spain on 21 March 1982. USA won 2:1.
  13. The only one I have recorded is Archibald “Archie” Blue (Royal Albert) who played for Junior Scotland against Rangers on 16 December 1959. He signed for Heart of Midlothian immediately afterwards and stayed at Tynecastle until 30 April 1961. He was capped 12 times (4 goals) for Australia including twice against Scotland in 1967. As you say there are probably many more as we did not specifically check that out. If you have some names it will be easy to check. Bobby McCallum (Lanark United) was capped against England in 1976. His daughter (Collette) was capped 81 times for the Australian women’s team.
  14. James and William McLellan in the Saltcoats Victoria team were brothers. They played in the same Junior Scotland team against Wales at Pittodrie on 29 May 1926 and with it became (unless anyone knows differently!) the only brothers to play in the same Junior Cup winning and Junior Scotland team. The St Anthony’s inside right Peelan had earlier in the year made an unsuccessful attempt to travel to Canada as a stowaway. The Canadian officials found him and sent him back!
  15. Like everyone else I am struggling to understand the SFA Board’s position despite the explanation of the Chief Executive. Far from clarifying anything it confirms that the SFA has not followed its own agreed procedures and processes. Even if 12 applicant clubs and the floodlighting changes were seen as exceptional circumstances they could have been dealt with by the SFA’s existing procedures. Those procedures are in place to ensure the “transparency and integrity of the system”. NO DEROGATIONS The Licensing Manual makes no distinction between a Registered Member (e.g. Bonnyrigg Rose) making its first application for a club licence and a Full Member applying to go from say Entry to Bronze Levels. As such, derogations can be given to any club by the Licensing Committee and in doing so acting independently based on the merits of the case and cannot deny an application by virtue of the club’s membership status. The SFA Board appears to have acted outside its own process by changing the licencing criteria after an audit is underway. It can make changes up to the day of the audit itself (floodlights) but not after it (no derogations). I think the Licensing Committee would have been quite right in discussing the question as to whether in future first-time applicants should meet all requirements i.e. no derogations, to be awarded an Entry Level licence. However, if they thought derogations should not be given in these circumstances then that would form a formal proposal to the SFA Board to change the criteria and, if approved, would be included in the 2020 revision. That is the process. UEFA The Licensing Manual says: “Scottish FA activities with regard to licensing are subject to third party scrutiny by UEFA in order to guarantee the transparency and integrity of the system.” It also says: “1.2 Approval of the Scottish FA Club Licensing Manual The Scottish FA Board approves the terms of this manual. This is reviewed annually and cannot change during the licensing process, unless duly approved by UEFA. The manual conforms to UK Law.” It is clear from my reading that this UEFA scrutiny/approval refers to the complete manual and not just Parts 1, 2 & 4 that refer to UEFA club licensing. I did wonder about the reason for the extent of UEFA’s oversight. However, in the circumstances of a club outside the Premiership winning the Scottish Cup then a special application to UEFA can be made to play in the Europa League. In making its decision UEFA would want to be sure that it can rely on the robustness of the National Club Licensing process and the level it has assigned to the applicant club. It was not lost on me that UEFA exercises some discretion when clubs have sportingly qualified for the Europa League but do not have a UEFA Club Licence. It might be useful for the SFA to consider how it would react if the boot was on the other foot. Let’s say UEFA changed the floodlighting requirements for Category Four stadia, e.g. Hampden Park, and the scale of the change meant the work could only be done in the close season. However, in the meantime non-compliant grounds would come off the list for staging Europa League Finals, etc. I am sure that the SFA would seek a derogation from UEFA to retain Hampden Park's status in exchange for a commitment to make the changes.
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