The Spider

Well now that we’ve spent over an hour bigging up the Old Firm, before we have a quick look at what’s happening in the diddy leagues, let’s head over to MacDiarmid Park to see what’s been happening in the Challenged Cup Final. Derek, what’s the latest? Well Richard you join us as we enter the last few minutes of what’s been an engrossing game in spite of the 0-0 scoreline. No sponsors for this year’s competition of course, but Clyde & Raith Rovers have been doing their best to make this occasion worthy of the competition’s name. As you would expect it’s been the full time club who have dominated proceedings, but The Bully Wee have been competent and principled in their resistance of Raith’s sustained pressure. Hold on Richard, hold on, it’s a penalty to the part-timers. To be fair it was a great move from the Clyde boy, selling the Rovers’ defence a complete dummy, but did they really have to dive in so recklessly without considering the consequences. It was as blatant an error as you’ll ever see Richard, expertly converted by Robert Jones who’s on a hot scoring streak right now - that’s his 3rd in 24 games. Just in front of me I can see the Clyde Treasurer gleefully rubbing his hands in anticipation of the prize money that’s surely coming Clyde’s way as we now enter time-added-on with Raith now also disadvantaged by being a man down following that incident. But wait, what’s this…………I don’t believe it Richard, what a stupid thing to do right at the death here! Raith had seemingly abandoned any attempt at strategy, and in desperation were trying any means possible to rectify the situation. Clyde on the other hand were in complete control, but with virtually the very last kick of the game they’ve conceded a spectacular own goal following isolated pressure from Raith’s substitute who was only signed this morning from Club Castlemilk. Well, back to you in the studio Richard. It looked like Clyde had stolen it, but Raith have now turned the tables on them and this game’s not over by a long way!

Sorry to disappoint but I only looked in because Stranraer are now my nearest team and I'd been tempted to take this game in...........wish I had now!

Looking that way at the moment. Hope you put money on it.

Always knew those trips to Falkirk & Meadowbank would come back to haunt you .

Hope that's indeed true...........the stupid lack of judgement that's resulted in the gift that keeps giving.

but obviously not since Jimmy "Walks On Water" Rooney as that would be a comparison too far

nor our winger (according to Gardner Speirs' tactics manual ) Lawrence Shankland

or a chairman who is stupid enough to trade in a relatively small amount of compensation for a decent % of a very high transfer fee

No idea what the actual figure being mooted is, but the word currently being used across the media at the moment is "substantial". As you rightly point out though, it would be zilch if he went to either of the Old Firm under current arrangements.

It depends entirely on the context that "status quo" is used in as remaining amateur is the "status quo" as far as our constitution is concerned. Beyond that of course you are pefectly correct in everything else you say as we face huge change whichever route we go down, and things will never be the same again. Some actively embrace the possibilities that turning professional might bring whilst others are concerned that the extra expense would drain our reserves over a period of time, but for others it's simply a question of damned if we do, damned if we don't, so which is now the least worse option.

Agreed. I simply observe (as in the case of Muirfield Golf Club) that if a concept gains momentum then subsequent EGM votes have been known to considerably change. IF the first vote fails, I think it's very important to note the margin. If a majority vote is against professionalism, then that should be the end of that debate for the forseeable fututure as it should also be if the motion passes. If however as TMWNN suggests, between 66% and 74% are in favour, then I'd suggest that a second vote is almost inevitable as there will be rightful pressure on the others to re-consider their position purely on democratic grounds. Any in-between outcome is most undesirable and will do nothing to unite the club going forward.

Yes for your first sentence, but I respectfully suggest you are completely wrong with your second. If the motion fails but has a majority support, as a democrat personally I see nothing wrong with The President making the argument that a majority of members are in favour of the motion and appealing to those who voted against to change their minds in a second vote at another EGM. Now you are perfectly at liberty to say you disagree with that line of thought, but I simply ask how would that be illegal per the comparison I made with Muirfield Golf Club?

Nor can I, but it's not what would happen in an "overwhelming" majority scenario that I'm seeking further clarification on. What would you want to do in a 51 v 49 small majority scenario - sit at your keyboard and complain about it or have you a practical suggestion, perhaps along the lines of what i was advocating?

That is the other side of the coin and why it's so important that the Club makes a sufficiently strong case for turning pro in the documentation it will be handing out at the forthcoming meeting (and hopefully mailing to all members shortly thereafter). If it fails to make the decision an easy one and the motion fails, then they will have nobody to blame but themselves.

So if a first vote produces a majority in favour, but fails to reach the 75% threshold, are you going to give up or harness your admirable passion and try again?

In that case I'd concede that 1 in 4 of our membership were obstinately in favour of following our club in the Lowland League, condemn them for failing to respect the wishes of the majority (assuming that the 1st vote had at least 51% in favour), and propose a 3rd vote to get it over the line. You may remember the case in the not too distant past where stubborn members of a renowned golf club who refused to accept lady members were eventually made to see common sense, so I belive the precedent exists, unless our resident expert in Company Law wishes to correct me. What I wouldn't do is throw my toys out the pram and meekly resign. Perhaps some of the Committee need to supplement their breakfast cereal with some moral fibre if they lack the willingness to pursue the long game? Sending them on a lateral thinking course to improve their mental dexterity might also be in order.

Deary deary me. The wailing on this thread has just reached new decibel levels. I will try to keep this as simple as possible as some people seem to be struggling with their comprehension levels. If the club's business plans make it clear that turning professional is the best option for the club then I will vote in favour of that, and would hope that as many of my fellow members would do likewise. I'm in favour of this being a simple majority vote, and have repeatedly said I would support any initiative to produce that outcome, even if it took a second vote to achieve it. However, in the event that the motion fails to carry, I had hoped that the club could put all of this behind it and pull together to make the best of the situation that we would then find ourselves in. Sadly, based on what i am reading on this site, there appears to be a prevailing opinion that in that event we should simply give up and in doing so would actually hasten a drop to the Lowland League. That gentlemen, is an appalling defeatist attitutude, and one I simply wish to completely disassociate myself from.

Because they aren't quitters and can handle adversity. It's something people who hold positions of authority generally do, and having spent a lot of time in the company of 4 of them during the last 30+ years, I'd be both astonished and disappointed if those individuals didn't share that view. As for any of the remainder, if they are genuinely indicating that they would chuck it if things don't go their way, then that reflects very badly on them particularly if they are using that threat as leverage to sway members' judgement.

Completely agree with your first sentence, but thereafter you lose it a bit as it's the law that's doing the dictating, not any potential minority. I previously said that I'd support any move whereby the majority should carry the day, so your final sentence doesn't go far enough in my view. If 51% of the membership were in favour of going pro then personally I think there's a moral obligation on the 49% to agree for a 2nd vote and change accordingly. However, if less than 50% were in favour, then I'd suggest there should be an equally compelling argument for us all to accept the outcome and move on, but I can't say I'm confident the whinging would cease. Also, any talk of Committee Members potentially behaving like spoilt brats and resigning if the motion isn't carried is quite frankly disrespectful nonsense, and if Committee Members weren't adult enough to respect democratic outcomes then they wouldn't have applied to be on Committee in the first place.

I'm not asking for optimism from either side...........just an acceptance of the outcome whichever way it goes and that we move on and make the best of it afterwards..........................and the same goes for our vote .

At the moment I don't think anyone can confidently predict which way the vote will go, and whilst there will be understandable delight from many if the motion is adopted, for the good of the club there needs to be an acceptance of it if it doesn't. A wringing of hands and cries of "we're doomed" would only hasten the outcome those in favour of the change are rightly so keen to avoid.

I've absolutely no idea whether the forthcoming vote will be in favour of turning professional or not, but if it fails I would like to hope that running up the white flag as you propose is not an attitude that those who either run our club or play for it will adopt. It's one thing advocating that the proposed change would be for the better, but abandoning ship if things don't go that way is hardly going to improve the situation.

Cheers. Obviously hope you're right.

Clarity's not your strong point isn't it not?

No cause for alarm. Our resident expert vouches that Roberts is the man for the job, so surely we should all be comforted by that, and it will only be a matter of time before the recovery is in full swing.