garrellburn

Well, Jimmy and Denis have Scotland badges on their shirts, goalkeeper Roy's does not but I'm pretty certain he would have been playing. I didn't know where Junior internationals were usually played, didn't really think it would have been Hampden. There is part of a seated stand behind them which looked a bit like the old main stand at Hampden which is why i thought it might be there. There is also another photo of Jimmy taken in action at the same game which has the terracing in the background showing it absolutely full. Incidentally all these pictures were taken by George Cassidy, a Kilsyth based photographer who was the official photographer to the SJFA in those days. We have quite a few others of the Kilsyth team taken by him, all of a very high standard but some were lost when the old Social club was destroyed by fire back in the late 1990's. I have no idea what would have happened to his archive of negatives, etc when he died but if they still exist then they would be a real treasure trove of football photos from that era.

Micheal Clinton He was a Kilsyth player during season 1951-52, scoring 13 goals. He moved on to Clyde and Alloa Athletic and was apparently reinstated to Ashfield in 1955 or thereabouts, so if he was capped it was not with us. I have a photograph of Roy Lowe, together with Jimmy Seivewright and Denis Mochan in their Scotland jerseys taken at a ground with a very large crowd in the background (Hampden)? It was certainly earlier than 1958 as both Jimmy and Denis had moved on from Kilsyth by then. Probably 1955 but could have been 1956, not '57 as Seivewright was near the end of his career by then. He is still with us and living in Lennoxtown, I had some news of him during the last few days,, a group from East Dunbartonshire Leisure are collecting reminiscences from older people in their area to be published as a booklet and Jimmy is one of those selected. Roy Lowe, as I posted here recently died in Australia jus a few weeks ago. Denis is still a fairly regular attender at Duncansfield. Ian Gordon. Ian was a regular Kilsyth player during season 1950-51 and certainly played in both sixth round Scottish cup games against Broxburn. Other than that he scored 3 goals during the latter part of the season I have no further record of hiis time at Kilsyth. He moved to Hearts but apparently only made 3 first team appearances (according to Neil Browns A-Z) before moving to Airdrie and then Third Lanark.

While at Dunipace Willie Westwater played in all three Junior internationals in 1952. I don't have him capped while at Kilsyth so if you know more I would be interested to hear. 0 You could be right, memory is starting to play tricks. Another player capped from Kilsyth during the same era was Denis Mochan, brother of Neil of Celtic. Denis had a couple of senior clubs in Scotland, then quite a few years at Notts Forest. Finished up as manager of Colchester (briefly) before retiring and returning to Scotland. Still hale and hearty and a fairly regular visitor to Duncansfield

I would presume so, the Westwaters were a very well known football family iin Denny. I seem to remember that Willie had a brother playing around the same time, maybe Pricey would have some knowledge of this?

Little bit off topic, but former Kilsyth goalkeeper Roy Lowe who got a couple of junior caps, around 1955-56 perhaps?, died last week aged 87 in Australia where he had been a resident for many years. He kept up with another of his Kilsyth team mates from that era who also went out there, Willie Westwater,.He also had a few junior caps, first when with Dunipace , then with Kilsyth around 1953-55. He captained our Scottish cup winning team iin 1955 and left for Ozzie near the end of the 55-56 season. His son, Alan Westwater, was a member of the Australian team which qualified for the World cup finals, late 70's? or early 80's? They actually played together in the same team out there, Alan came back to Scotland and as far as am I aware is still living in Denny which is where the family came from.

Since its right under the approach flight path to the airport there must be a great opportunity for advertising on the roof(s) of any new covered enclosures. Any suggestions for who might be interested?

Easy, how do you think it got there to begin with?

Looks a very decent crowd, when was photo taken?

As Tinto has recounted, junior games could attract quite unbelievable (to moidern fans) crowds in the late 40's and up till the end of the 50's. I think though that some of the figures quoted have to be taken with a pinch of salt, they are probably rather optomistic estimates in many cases. The first junior I gamei ever attended was Kilsyth v Broxburn in 1951, a sixth round tie and the crowd at Kilsyth was given as 8764, a ground record which still stands although we hope to beat it sometime soon (including the midges).The difference here is that we have photographic evidence to show how big the crowd was, and the fact that it is a precise number backs that up, Most visiting clubs provided gate checkers at that time. By no means a record for junior football though, or even near it, Ashfield v Clydebank drew 26000 to a cup tie about the same time and there is no doubt clubs such as Bo''ness, Irvine Meadow and Petershill regularly had five figure attendances. Irvine Meadow had a grand total of over 220000 view all the matches they were involved in during their Scottish cup run in, I think, 1947-48 season. They lost to Petershill at Hampden in 1951 in front of 71,000 spectators (officially), and you can take that figure with anolther shovelfull of salt, almost certainly an underestimate, as it was well known that there were scams operating with the turnstile staff at that time.

There was a very healthy attendance, but they had all came in over the wall!

One more hint, replace the word 'world' with South Lanarkshire.

Sorry to tell you I got in with that one first, at a meeting a couple of years ago. But it was addressed to a different dinosaur, there is more than one within the hierarchy. They really are two of a kind though, from the same part of the world, and with similar background, that's enough hints.

Yes, TJ did mention it, the door is not closed to participation. The feeling is that it is not the time for it, he described it as a "flawed" set up several times. Many of the clubs will agree with that.

More or less, yes.

The third team Caterpillar from recollection were a factory team from Motherwell. Their nickname was 'the Cats' but they had little support unfortunately. A small point, but Caterpillar as I recollect played in Uddingston at what is now Thorniewoods park? Certainly the factory was between Uddingston and Viewpark. It was at the time reputedly the largest manufacturing centre under one roof in Europe. Viewparks most (in)famous resident was one Peter Manuel.

Kilsyth played Dunoon twice in the West of Scotland cup during the 1960's. I remember being at one of the games and it was definitely played in the main Cowal Stadium. We did also play the twice in the 75-76 season but I remember going to the away match on that occasion. We never lost to them in any nof these games and as another poster remarked, the travelling costs must have crippling for them.

Interested to see you have included a team from Twechar in your list, there certainly was one pre WW2 but didn't think they played junior post war. One that definitely did was Croy Celtic although I think it could not have been for more than a year or so. Another few that played well into the 50's are Alva Albion Rangers, Forth Rangers and Grange Rovers who amalgamated to become Grangemouth United, all gone now. Markinch Victoria Rangers was another from Fife. If you want to go pre WW2 there are dozens of others who never survived the war, Bannockburn, Bedlay, Scottish Dyes (also from Grangemouth) and plenty more. Falkirk Juniors also, who only lasted a couple of years more recently was another.

don't just assume that because there is a street, or other feature with the same name as a park that existed a century or so ago that it lies in the same area. When naming new streets Councillers will tend to favour names with some relation to the district but not neccessarily in exactly the same place, even if they know where it was.

The grounds of Rangers and Emmett were side by side on the site of the present Sportsfield about a quarter mile further along the road which comes through the industrial estate before you turn right into the road down to Duncansfield. There is a fullsize grass pitch still there used by Kilsyth Amatuers and also a floodlit 3G pitch used by various teams.

Yes, we were in abeyance but the pavilion has the date 1945 0n it which may confuse some. #The present club was founded in 1913 but there are some records of an earlier club of that name in the 1890's. (ref The Boys from Leven's Winding Shore, the history of Vale of Leven FC)

Hitler (aka S***** R********) wouldn't allow it to be played.

I'm sure it will eventually be played, It took six years from 1939 to May 1945 to get the final of the Stirlingshire Jubilee cup final between Dunipace and Kilsyth Rangers played.

There really was nowhere quite like Petershill park in the 50's. Filled to near capacity, close to ten thousand for a league game with Kilsyth Rangers as opponents for a decider to determine who would be Central League champions. Petershill on a run of 48 games unbeaten at home, Kilsyth with one of their greatest ever teams. The Result? Petershill 0 Kilsyth 5. All of this on a Monday evening, what I would give to be able to relive that moment.

The number of people on this committee would be a decent crowd at many junior games today!

On the same theme, the current Kilsyth Rangers date from 1913 although you could make a case for 1945 as that is when we reformed after nearly six years in abeyance. You could also make a case for 1891 or earlier as there is a reference in the Vale of Leven book to a team of this name playing the Vale in the Scottish senior cup. They tanked as 8-1 though so we'll just pass over that one quickly. Also I have a single reference to a another game in 1908 or thereabouts. The whole thing is a bit of a minefield and there is little point in making claims unless you have very solid evidence to back it up. Thanks for aeriel photo of the three grounds in east end of glasgow, it helped jog my memory, I definitely was at Parkhead and Strathclydes ground, and just maybe at the original Bridgeton Waverley ground, definitely at Dennistoun Waverley more than once. Also two Blantyre Celtic parks, again one a dog track and also latterly a speedway venue. The original Royal Albert ground as well, another dog track, with a big wooden grandstand, only one visit, probably in late 50's, neede to check this one.