capt_oats

Archie starts with a 1-1 draw against Hibs.

Aye, I think one of the obstacles your general "fan" probably has a problem getting their head around is the idea that from any given youth cycle we're probably only reasonably expecting one or two to break into the first team. Not every youth player is expected to be a first team regular and if our pitch is to give young players the opportunity to progress their career then if that opportunity comes along early then it's going to be tough to argue that they should turn that down. The Turnbull, Campbell, Hastie, Scott group feels like it was the exception rather than the rule. Especially coming off the back of the previous cohort where you had the likes of Cadden etc so we had this run that perhaps saw an unrealistic expectation of what the 'pathway' is going to look like. There will maybe be one or two who will surprise you on top of the couple of players you're going all in on in terms of what your hopes and expectations for them are but broadly there's going to be an expected amount of wastage. Like, with the current group of new graduates we lost Bailey Rice but kept Lennon Miller (on a 3 year deal) and you'd maybe hope that one or two might develop further and make a case for inclusion but that's about it. I know the club have high hopes and this is one of the groups they're excited about but you'd think we're in a position where there's still a baseline for what our realistic pathway aims are. It feels like the increased activity of "Big Teams" outside of Scotland looking at the league and apparently being happy to chuck development or transfer fees at teenagers based on potential is an obstacle that was probably always there to a lesser extent but now you're factoring in the Brexit element @thisGRAEME's just mentioned which has turned everything on its head compared to the landscape when Brave was originally thrown together. Mildly related, I had wondered what had happened to Sam Campbell who had popped up on the bench at tail end of last season under Alexander and is one of those less publicised stories of players who were linked with a move south but stuck around (for whatever reason) - Liverpool, Leeds and Brighton were the teams mentioned. Turns out he's been injured since the summer and is missing the bulk of the season according to his profile on the official. It's been mentioned before but the pandemic and subsequent mothballing of the development levels seems to have fucked things for a lot of clubs not just us. There was an entire cycle who were pretty much cut loose at the end of 20/21. Add selling McKinstry and McAlear when we did and it should be clear why we've been left with a fairly obvious gap.

+1 on this. I'm fairly sure that one of the benefits of the academy is that it makes us eligible for funding and grants etc. Don't get me wrong, that's a fairly 'unseen' plus point to the average fan but it's necessary all the same. One of the other things is that, while it might not sit well that we're seeing Academy players moving on before they've kicked a baw in the first team, they also generate revenue for us through player trading. I get that's all incredibly capitalist and folk want to see players on the park rather how they benefit a balance sheet but I suppose there are certain realities in Modern Fitba'. I had posted a fairly loose list of our transfers since 14/15 when Erwin moved to Leeds earlier in The Thread. The post is from August 2020 so possibly just before Turnbull's (knee) fell apart and the original transfer to Celtic fell over as a result: Anyway, here's that list updated with added Sol, Allan Campbell, Bailey Rice, Tony Watt and soon to be Max Johnston. 23/23 - Max Johnston (TBC) - £ TBC - Development Compensation 22/23 - Sondre Solholm Johansen (Odd) - £? - Transfer 22/23 - Bailey Rice (Rangers) - £ undisclosed - Development Compensation 21/22 - Tony Watt (Dundee United) - £175k - Transfer 21/22 - Allan Campbell (Luton Town) - £? - Development Compensation 20/21 - David Turnbull (Celtic) - £3m - Transfer 19/20 - James Scott (Hull City) - £1.5m - Transfer 19/20 - Reece McAlear (Norwich City) - £250k - Transfer 19/20 - Jake Hastie (Rangers) £350k - Development Compensation 19/20 - Stuart McKinstry (Leeds United) - £400k - Transfer 18/19 - Ryan Bowman (Exeter City) - £30k - Transfer 18/19 - Cedric Kipré (Wigan) - c.£1m - Transfer 17/18 - Louis Moult (Preston North End) - £500k - Transfer 17/18 - Ben Heneghan (Sheffield United) - £350k-ish - Transfer 16/17 - Marvin Johnson (Oxford United) - £750k-ish including sell on - Transfer 16/17 - Stephen Pearson (Atletico Kolkata) - £100k - Transfer 16/17 - Ben Hall (Brighton) - £210k - Development Compensation 14/15 - Lee Erwin (Leeds United) - £500k - Development Compensation 18 players of whom 10 are products of the Motherwell Academy (11 if you include Pearson). No Chris Cadden there as it seems to have been the case that we ended up with an entirely redundant IOU out of that situation. That's before you factor in the various 'do a job' types who we may not have seen any cash for but nevertheless have filled a jersey over the years ie: Barry Maguire, Jack McMillan, Dom Thomas etc Getting Campbell to sign a 4 year extension at 19 allowing us to get 100+ games out of him definitely feels like a sweet spot that's increasingly hard to hit given our schedule means that after they've signed their first pro deal if they're good they'll probably already have been on the radar of other clubs down south and realistically they'll into the final year of their contract when they hit the first team. It's worth mentioning that the 'interest' in Max Johnston isn't recent, his name started appearing in the papers this time last year. That said, while I wasn't in the room so don't know exactly what was said, the reporting from the AGM was that Hammell suggested he was confident Johnston would re-sign. Obviously SH was emptied fairly soon after so circumstances change but even then I still wonder whether that was naivety or if he was just bluffing. I mean, having seen the list of clubs who supposedly have some sort of interest in him I don't imagine they've just suddenly appeared on the scene post-Hammell.

It feels like Archibald is a similar profile to Kettlewell so at least we seem to be consistent in our selection criteria. I see we've used the same language in the news story as when Kettlewell was announced. Also, it's worth mentioning that he was Spittal and McGinn's gaffer at Thistle as well as being on the coaching staff when Richard Foster was there. If our whole thing is trying to create a first team culture at that level then Archibald is at the very least experienced. Link

What's the general consensus on Archibald as a coach? That's him been announced as our (Motherwell) Lead Development Coach so he's looking after our Reserves and u18s.

We'd be due the training compensation and we'd also get a pro-rata amount of 5% of any future sale as part of the solidarity payment system. Tbh, unless we're absolutely desperate for £100k here or there I'd guess that you'd always take the mystery box gamble and trade off a slice in favour of a sell-on if possible as you'll look really fucking daft that one time when it actually comes off. Here's what we put out when Campbell moved on: This is what Burrows was saying (only Hastie was OOC at the time he left the club): That Tweet was part of a much longer thread about broader stuff that's still relevant all the same regardless of whether AB has left the club:

Big Fabrizio still out there punting Max Johnston.

The Hinchliffe thing is quite weird because his time with us coincided with Carson and Gillespie being very good while Kelly has gone off a cliff since he left and Alexander came in as his replacement.

This is pretty much it and it is ever thus when this topic invariably rolls around. Without wanting to patronise anyone SO has a number of good, well-intentioned posters and it's not different to other similar sized club forums and nowhere near the level of shitshow in comparison to your afcchat etc. Rightly or wrongly, I've always had the impression that along with attracting a certain type of poster due to the single club nature of the forum the core user group on SO skews slightly older. Which isn't a ding on anyone but it would probably account for why there often feels like there can be a frustrating disconnect at times and speaks to your 2nd paragraph in terms of time line and the natural evolution from it initially setting about to be a corrective to what it is now probably informs the current experience. There's probably a broader conversation in terms of changes in online culture from the point it launched and to @YassinMoutaouakil's point about 95% of posters on here have a SO account it raises the question of why many no longer post there or @Quatermass' post about why regular posters have migrated elsewhere - being middle-aged and realising that there are other things to do in life beyond posting on a fitba' forum is a perfectly acceptable answer like. Ultimately if it's not your flavour then no one's being forced to post there (as I mentioned earlier I pretty much sacked it in 2018) although equally there's nothing to stop someone having an opinion on the content.

That's almost certainly true although I'd imagine the % of people who actively use their accounts is probably different. Having just checked I posted twice on SO in 2022 and have posted 0 times in 2023 to date. Which isn't to say I don't check in now and again but from the looks of things 2018 was the last time I posted with any regularity. I think it's fair to say that the two platforms have different energies but as @Busta Nut pointed out that's just generally the tension you find when it comes to club specific forums. Said it before but there's a one-eyedness that's a natural consequence of a forum built with a singular common interest and focus. If you look at other clubs threads on here you'll see similar criticism of BAWA, WAP/Banter Page etc. so it's not just a SteelmenOnline thing. - tbh it was because it was more about being tickled by the content than having a dig at the poster if that makes sense? I've no real inclination to dunk on anyone there.

I know SO gets a bad rap on here from time to time, as @Busta Nut says above, the content there is generally what you expect to get on club specific forums and we're the roasters to them. That said, I was curious to know the context and what prompted slander like that as beyond (fair) comment about graphic design choices and (lack of) proof reading there hasn't really been any real mention of the recent Bois stuff on The Thread - which is fine. Tbh, while the original post that mentions P&B is maybe a bit on the nose that thread is definitely...something. If nothing else it's a case in point as to why folk can find a forum like SO hard work and ngl 6 pages of relentless doubling down is pretty much why I sacked off posting there years ago. It's exhausting. Lads, honestly, sometimes people just want to talk about curry and this has always been the energy that I'm here for on this thread. Either way, they've definitely got our number.

Lads...

I mean, there will be no Josh Morris redemption arc but I was genuinely confused by people kicking off when he signed (before he'd kicked a baw). He scored 20 goals in 52 games from midfield in his first season for Alexander at Scunthorpe having already played for him at Fleetwood. It was pretty fucking obvious why Alexander signed him.

Aye. I don't disagree there at all. It's just that once you've set your stall out with the broad idea of transparency it's very noticeable when it stops and there were a lot of players who seemed to disappear for one reason or another under Alexander even going back to Polworth after he had his shitfit at Pittodrie. Definitely. Going by Transfermarkt he's not made a match squad since the 2-2 against Killie in December and hasn't been on the park since Celtic at the start of November. So it's not even as if he's just been phased out with the January 9 arriving.

Aye. I totally get that players (indeed people) have a right to privacy and that's absolutely fine. I'm certainly not sitting here demanding updates but the general vibe from the fact that he's just kind of disappeared seems odd. It just seems like a fairly shite state of affairs all round (in so much as a footballer landing on a 2 year contract can be a shite state of affairs). He cancelled his contract with Salford, came up here on the basis that he was getting to work with a manager who had got the best out of him (say what you like about Morris but his numbers under Alexander were exceptional - 42 goals and 31 assists in 160 games). He arrives on 11th July and Alexander is emptied on the 29th. He made 10 appearances (356 minutes) under Hammell before disappearing into the ether. As @thisGRAEME says, I wouldn't take the mutual'ing either for exactly the same reasons but even a loan to the end of the season might have been something to at least play games. I know it was touched on at the AGM re: us going Secret Squirrel on injuries and absences but it's been really amplified with Alexander shutting down the (knee) page on the official. The radio silence feels like it definitely increased post-Robinson. That said, I noticed @PauloPerth commenting in the St Johnstone thread about Saints not communicating injuries and absences. Who knows maybe the fact that Davidson and Alexander are BFFs means they've a similar approach to that sort of stuff. Indeed from taking a swatch at their thread in general it seems like Davidson and Grezza have pretty similar outlooks when it come to fitba in general as a lot of Saints fans complaints about Davidson echo what was grinding folks gears when Alexander was here.

I suppose it's worth caveating that of those mentioned the majority only have 1 year left after this season. Expiries: 2024 - Oxborough, Lamie, Mugabi, Maguire, McGinley, Morris, Shields 2025 - Danzaki, Blaney, Tierney I say this having clearly never been involved in a fitba' transfer but I'd imagine that having a year left probably allows for a bit more flexibility in an exit in so much as a season loan effectively does the job without settling the contract (assuming the loan club picks up a chunk of the wage). I could be wrong but other than maybe Mugabi I don't think we'd be expecting to recoup fees for any of the 2024 expiries while 2 of the 2025 ones are just in the door and Tierney is still only 22 so I wouldn't be writing him off given he's clearly shown potential. It's more a question of whether there's a likelihood of finding a club for the others to land. With Maguire and Shields out on loan at the moment you'd think that SK would want to give them a crack out of fairness but you could imagine both being of interest to clubs at the level they're currently playing. I don't think it's out of the question that some EFL 1 or 2 mob might take a punt on Bevis - he's 28 in May so arguably should be hitting his peak years as a centre back but someone like Lamie feels like he'd be a bit more awkward and I don't imagine he'd be keen on dropping down a level up here. The disappearance of McGinley and Morris this season leaves it as anyone's guess what happens there. By the by, I noticed that Maguire hasn't in the squad for Dundee's squad for their last 3 games - he was subbed off after 65' in the 3-1 loss to Thistle. I take it that's an injury? From lurking about on the Dundee forum I got the impression that they'd not exactly been convinced by him.

I thought it was interesting that we used Blaney as a sub ahead of Lamie at the weekend while Lamie was unused. I mean, it could have been as simple as giving him a run out given, for better or worse, the Bathgate Maldini is a known quantity and came off the bench against County but still... Going back to Lamie's whole PCA situation, it was implied at the time that his nose had been put out of joint at us having signed other centre backs and that he wasn't thought of as a first pick: I think that's kind of a tough circle to square - especially given the form of Butcher and Casey since Kettlewell has taken over with Blaney waiting in the wings but Lamie having been made vice-captain at the start of the season.

Agree with that about Slattery in so much as our pitch to him would presumably have been that we'd "give him a platform" so we/he would probably be expecting him to be open to a move around now. Tbh, he's not going to make us rich but I could easily see him moving to a top end EFL 1 side eg: Plymouth, Ipswich, Barnsley, Bolton, Peterboro or a lower end Championship team eg: Wigan, Blackpool, Huddersfield, Rotherham. Casual homophobia and general arsehole-ishness aside I like Slattery and as others have said, it feels like he probably has a relatively high ceiling. He's certainly a better player than he's shown (or has had the opportunity to show) this season. We've already seen the difference in Spittal now he's being used in a way that suits his game and I don't think it's a stretch to say that we'd get more from Slattery in a midfield with a better mix and balance than being relentlessly used in a dysfunctional pair in a shape that doesn't work.

Swapping out SOD for Devlin sounds like a fairly sensible move. On the point of Livi out of contract Livi players see if we could replace Goss with someone like Omeonga, I'd be fine with that. With Goss it kind of feels like he's got what he wants from his time at Motherwell. He's played regularly, it's not been a disaster without him having been consistently good and he's got an international call up. Well done everyone. I'd say he's probably at a point similar to the group who left at the end of 18/19 (McHugh, Ally Gorrin, Main etc). Also agree with @thisGRAEME about keeping McGinn around.

He is, deal to the end of the season.

International break and all that, so it's quiet times. Anyway, I noticed this post on Twitter from a St Johnstone analysis account (*waves at @RandomGuy.*) but it made me wonder whether Obika is someone we might be likely to keep on or if he's just a useful stop gap and by extension, who else is out of contract that we might be inclined to try and retain (assuming we stay up etc). You'd think that this would be a fairly natural point to have a bit of a reset if that's what Ketts wants to do especially with as many players OOC: O'Donnell, Carroll, McGinn, Johnston, Casey, Cornelius, Goss, Efford, Aitchison, McKinstry (contract at Leeds expires), Mandron, Obika. In addition, the fact that we've seen a few signings actually make an impact this season it put in mind the level of heat the recruitment department has taken at various points. Here are our signings this season: Spittal (Alexander) McGinn (Alexander) Morris (Alexander) Oxborough (Alexander) McKinstry (Hammell) - loan Penney (Hammell) - loan Aarons (Hammell) - loan Moult (Hammell) - loan Blaney (Hammell) Crankshaw (Hammell) - loan Mandron (Hammell) Danzaki (Hammell) Furlong (Hammell) - loan Aitchison (Hammell) Obika (Hammell) - loan Casey (Hammell) Butcher (Hammell) 17 players Some have been good, others have been good under a different manger/coach, there are very obvious busts, a couple have been unlucky with the change in shape and there are a few that are clearly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ based on next to no game time as yet.

As @Desp said, if by 'sell out' you're meaning that there are literally no seats available in the home end most weeks then the answer is...no. To put it in numbers terms: Fir Park's capacity is 13,742. The McLean stand that houses the away support holds 4,856 so the maximum possible home capacity comes in at 8,886. I'm not sure about this season but last year's season ticket sales were (a record) 5,226+ which means if you round up to say, 5,300 (roughly 60% of the available seats) you're looking at approx. 3,586 tickets available for walk-up in the home end. You can't really make the assumption that every ST holder turns up to every home game either but the seat is still 'sold' so won't be re-sold. As @ahemps just said, Burrows has previously pointed out, possibly on his Twitter during one of his semi-regular explainers as to precisely why we choose not to give the **** and Celtic more tickets, that the club were aware that there was an increase in ST non-attendance for those games based on the data they pulled from STs being scanned in. I can't remember exactly what the number was but it was a noticeable %.

Hi.