Raven

and the crowd went wild Brilliant shot!

Find Hatch more of a wind up merchant than Strickland ever was-but it's just part of the act from him. All good entertainment. Looking forward to getting down there on Wednesday.

Repeated it once. It clearly wasn't the most important point. Consider it closed. No scattergun required. Target those responsible. And learn the lessons, some of which did happen. Starting with, prevent those convicted from travelling to future games. The accounts of the witnesses had to be considered, to learn those lessons, and innocent people who were in that stadium did want questions answered about why they were put in that situation. Just have to leave it at that then, we disagree. I don't see the 'fanbase' as being a unit, where the views of some reflect on others. I'd be offended to be associated with the views of some of them, and I don't feel any personal link to their views. If that leaves me open to being included in your definition of a hypocrit, so be it. And then we can get back on topic.

Search far and wide? Behave. You're talking to one. Every single person who provoked or took part in the violence there is to blame and should be held accountable for their own actions. Far more than the 14 that were convicted, obviously. Again, please do point me to any idiots who denied any Liverpool fans responsible should have been brough to justice. I'd hate to think such an opinion went unchallenged. The ludicrous claim here was that calls from Liverpool fans for justice are hollow because of what other Liverpool fans did or said about Heysel.

Glad you clarified that. Sorry, I contributed to the suggestion of that needless point scoring exercise - it detracts from my point. Yes, you will find plenty who mention other factors which you can consider as deflections, if it suits you to. Example- The fact that the ground was a crumbling hole isn't relevant if noone fights - noone gets hurt. Once there was trouble, it's a huge factor in the safety of everyone there- including the innocent fans. Is it a deflection to mention factors relevant to the security of the paying customer - no. Can you point me instead towards the ones who have said that anyone from the UK (or the Liverpool fans) guilty of provoking or taking part in the violence should not be brought to justice and held accountable for their own personal actions? BTW, my whole problem with this is the labelling of the "Liverpool fanbase" or any other clubs fans or football fans in general based on whatever idiots are in there midst. That attitude had a huge part in the fences being put up in grounds in the first place. If you find anyone with the view in the question above - ****'em, but they dont represent anyone i know.

Consistency doesn't mean that the families, relatives, friends of the victims, and to a lesser extent others who were there that day, and decent football fans in general, and taxpayers of this country, are denied justice because of your, or anyone else's, percieved bad taste due to comments made by someone else about a different incident, just because they might happen to support the same football team. Consistency should mean bringing those responsible to face justice. Not covering up for 23 years, paying some off on enhanced pensions. It should mean taking the correct actions,just like after Heysel, when the government were quick to round up and deport some of those involved to face manslaughter charges. Should have been more. There are plenty of LFC fans who agree with that. You can no doubt point to some examples of deflection.. there will always be some defensiveness. You can't deny the many more who were shamed by the hooligans in their "own" supports, and those who were embarrased and shamed even watching similar at football grounds up and down the country at the time..shamed that it was going on around football and wanting the whole lot dealt with, not this point scoring of this lot are worse than our lot.

worthwhile reading that Post-Hillsborough disaster editorial.

They had safety standards even way back then. Hillsborough hadn't had a valid safety certificate for 10 years. It had been taken off the list for semi finals a few years previously because of problems there. What were the improvements made- to create the pens so that the crowd pressure couldnt be relieved in any direction, and yet refused to amend the turnstiles accordingly. It wasn't adequate, by the standards of the time. Not for the other cup semi finals held there, not for league games. Thankfully you're right and much has changed.

"Inadequate" is a hell of a restrained word there, Joe.

Hi, Kelvin.

well said, HJ. The attitude towards decent lawabiding football fans from the authorities at that time was absolutely disgraceful. Yes, there was hooliganism at matches and yes, it must have been bloody difficult to police. The attitude of the authorities to football fans though was that they were all one, looked down upon, lower class. Pen the damned lot of them in with their thugs and to hell with their safety. There was little concept of personal accountability, who did right and wrong, just tar them all together. To be honest, the same attitude of the trolls talking about "this team's fans" and "that country's fans",but with hideous consequences. We have to make sure we're never treated like that again.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

another Kennilworth regular here when I'm not on the easyjet back north, congratulations to AFC although of course the twisted side of me was looking forward to the MK game that could have been. Only because its nice to see someone else suffer for a change. And 90% of the neutral interest was based on that, hehe. Chavenage ruined a good one there. Thought Ebbsfleet played a nice attacking style when I saw them too, guess they just have an unfortunate habit of conceding more than they score more often than not. They damn well done us at home last season though.