WaffenThinMint

Pah, amateurs! Learn from the professionals, kids

Exactly, which is what makes this decision so stupid. At the least, both should say, "you want us up to even your leagues, fine, here's the bill for us having to restructure our entire business plan for the next 12 months c/o your cackhandedness!"

Indeed - except in Morton's case (and East Stirlingshire as well) they were in the hands of someone deliberately trying to kill the club in order to sell the land and line their pocket. People have short memories in forgetting how easily any club can be thrown into financial chaos c/o a board or chairman that is either daft or dangerous. And it's the fans that pay for it - sometimes with their very club.

Yes, it's called up-shit-creek. You however like to kid yourselves that it's "within our means." It isn't, and deep down you know it. Jesus H - come into the real world! Airdrie have managed to avoid relegation by deign of league restructuring three times now, to ever dwindling attendances. As for "living within our means", I seem to remember Ballantyne saying they'd have to go part-time at one stage last year - then backtracking on it on the chance they could be kept in Division 1...and of course failing, meaning more money they could ill afford being blown for nothing. It's time to stop kidding yourselves. One more season's worth of bottom of the table-ville will kill them as sure as it will kill Elgin down in Division 3 - because fans will not go to watch a losing club. Period. It would be far better letting Airdrie have a season as a winning team - even in a lower league. That is why this decision is so utterly stupid. I'd sooner see one club go kaput and the other gets a chance to restructure and live than two - the more likely scenario with today's decision. Seems to me the SFL is determined to kill Airdrie by doing to them what their shorter sighted fans think is "a big favour" when it's like giving a diabetic a bloody Mars Bar!

Well done Piehutt in being about the only Morton fan on P&B of late to have posted anything remotely mature in content - a fortnight's worth of "nyah-nyah-nyah, hope Livi go bust!" from those who easily forget how close Morton went to the wall thanks to the circus that was the Cappielow boardroom has not been remotely edifying. The Gretna business set the precendent, yes...but passing such a ruling three days before kick-off? You would do that in a Saturday Morning Amateur League, let alone the second tier of Scottish Professional football! At a stroke they have not only messed up one club's season, they have screwed up three divisons and probably placed a death sentence on Airdrie in the process - no way will they survive a third season of languishing at the nether regions of Division 1. Those currently w**king themselves off with delight at events will have plenty of time to rue this day later when their own club suffers the fallout.

Don't talk utter shit all your life! Why should a club be expelled for losing a decision they appealed? Because you don't like them? You've been peppering the Killie fans with the same "cheats" nonsense about their financial troubles - time you grew up!

Bugger off Simpy, you bloody vulture! No SFL spot here to be had...yet! Have to admit I'm now of the opinion that Livi should tell them to stick it, let Div 3 struggle with a 9 man league and a month's worth of fallow weekends they can ill afford, and watch as Airdrie go bust mid-season from one more year's worth of being at the tail end of Division 1 too many. Granted that the SFL had little choice after the Gretna precedent in the past, but to do so with the season about to begin was utter madness - and its all the clubs that will pay for it. SFL = couldn't run a bath! or Livingston Thistle (I'm sure George would approve!) Like when they went "right lads, let's gazump the SoS and get Gretna first!"?

Maybe decades ago, but nowadays a supermarket is orientated in order to become the dominant retail outlet in an set area, and there is a certain amount of "honour amongst thieves" (bit like the Old Firm). Many of the "big four" (Sainsburys, Tescos, Asda and Morrisons) in fact have stores on land actually owned by one of their three rivals. One also need look no further than the fact all of them now stock the Bam's Dram - Buckfast - and even Eldorado, both the preserve of the corner shop or small off-licence, and considered unthinkable a few years ago, simply in order to strike a potentially fatal blow to them by cutting into that teeny tippler market that was in many cases their last monopoly item.

I can assure you that it is the supermarkets themselves that choose to sell below cost, even after screwing over their suppliers. At the risk of us going off topic, the suppliers most certainly don't (they simply screw the producers...why do you think Mohammed Sarwar became a millionaire by sticking to the supply chain side & leaving the shop and producing side to others?). What you are perhaps thinking of is the practice where supermarkets force suppliers wanting the all important eye-level shelves have to pay what is to all intensive purposes 'rent' for the privilege. There was also the case of Safeway demanding food manufacturers pay them money for their products to feature in their adverts (which rightly blew up in their faces) A lot of these abuses however have decreased primarily due to the flak generated by George Monbiot's Captive State: The Corporate Takeover Of Britain, though there is still a long way to go.

Gotta say, that was one hell of a good post, and completely agree with you that the SFL (and indeed the SFA's) credibility is on the line over this matter.

Get real! The days of businesses borrowings being dependent on solely their assets vanished decades ago

It does, because what you and all the other detractors refuse to accept is that football is a business like any other, and all this talk of "cheats" because a club overspent in anticipation of further gains shows a breathtaking amount of naivity. They were doing what businesses tend to do. I notice one clown from this thread that's been baiting Livi (and in the past baited Gretna) is up to his old tricks now with the Killie fans. When are some people going to take off their rose-tinted specs about the running of professional football companies somehow possessing anything resembling some sort of Corinthian spirit? In Roy Of The Rovers, maybe, but not in the real world... If you don't want your football to be all about evil lucre...watch the amateurs. I really cannot believe you have just written that. OF COURSE he's damn well competing with Tescos! Why do you think the supermarket has the loss leaders? To lure people into going the extra distance to go to them instead of the corner shop! Ask any bank how many loans small shop keepers take out simply to allow them to stay open when faced with a new supermarket in town they know has been given a large "loss leader" budget for it's first 2 quarters by national HQ in order to establish itself? I think the boards of Clyde, Stranraer, East Stirlingshire might have something to say about that one... Of come off it! St Johnstone would be in deep shit if it wasn't for the largesse of their chairman - he even bought Alan Main in a last desperate attempt to destablise Gretna enough so they would pip them to promotion, the sort of tactic usually reserved by the Old Firm against any upstarts threatening to split them. One of the reasons Scottish football historically has such an appalling track record of bust clubs is that they are by and large dependent - thanks to the grossly inflated power the Old Firm has over the rest - on a chairman or board of directors happy to continually throw good money after bad in order to keep the club alive. The moment they go - or the money dries up thanks to the boardroom becoming a battleground - they are invariably in trouble. So please spare us the "sustainability" line, because in Scottish football outside of the Old Firm that has always been directly linked to the size of the Fat Cigars in the boardroom's pockets. So the crux of the matter is it's all down to sour grapes about Livi actually winning a real trophy as opposed to whatever Mickey Mouse consolation tournament the SFA runs up as a sop to 'the minnows' before doing whatever the Old Firm wants? We'd never have guessed No wonder Stranraer attracted plenty of sympathy around Scotland when they were about to go under owing people left right and centre and having alienated a large part of their locality by ignoring local talent for that further afield [and hence the setting up of Stranraer Athletic (RIP) in the South of Scotland league]. Everybody sympathises with a club on its uppers in Scottish football...if it's one your team can beat.

Sorry, I'll put that better. The point is that it is very easy for clubs (& for that matter fans) to be holier-than-thou about "clubs must not live beyond their means", when the truth is that some clubs have no choice but to live within their means solely because no-one will invest in them or give them credit for major improvements that might propel them to greater things. It's like Aesop's Fox dismissing the grapes as "probably sour anyway" simply because he cannot reach them. The sad truth is that most businesses - and football is no exception - live beyond their means in order not merely according to the old adage of "you've got to speculate to accumulate", but simply to survive. Ask your local supermarket manager about how many of their products are 'loss leaders' just to get people into the habit of regularly using their store instead of the other supermarket down the road. So it is with football, eg. running up a players' wages bill beyond your current earnings in anticipation of increased attendences and merchandise sales; cup runs producing big pay-day matches against prestigious clubs, etc; all on the back of a better squad producing regular wins and more entertaining games. Airdrieonians tragically lived beyond their means so because they were desperate to get back into the top tier rather than face a slow death outside of it, having already forked out for a brand new stadium that would not be just SPL compliant but UEFA competition compliant as well. If they didn't, no one would come to watch them, their income would decline even more, and they would endure a slow lingering death - especially as in the post-Bosman world they were no longer guaranteed to get anything back for star players that moved on to bigger and better things. Had they succeeded in being promoted in 2002 to the SPL, everyone would have been slapping them on the back for their bold business acumen, rather than jumping on the corpse with tackity boots with hideous glee (as they soon did). And what happened to them nearly happened to Falkirk, St Mirren, Motherwell, and Lord knows how many others that didn't make the papers. Hence why I'm cross at the current array of "Burn The Witch" merchants. It could easily have been them. In some cases it was them, but they lived to tell the tale (sometimes by hook, sometimes by crook). They should remember that what goes around, comes around - and may come back round again...especially in a global recession.

Yes, well as Freemason was one of your fellow daily Gretna baiters over on the MAD boards you would say that, wouldn't you - another one who turns up regularly to gloat at other club's misfortunes and get holier than thou about "financial integrity" and "fan owned clubs" (though one is yet to see you start a campaign up for Queen of the South to become one ) All we need now is fricking Noah and Truth Hurts to turn up for the 'Queue For Those Hoping To Dance On Livingston's Grave' and we'll have the set!

Yes, and isn't it rather strange that the SFL don't? They can hardly make the excuse of this being a novelty, can they? Which again adds grist to the mill to those saying that it is high time that UEFA intervened and did the long overdue shakedown of Scottish club football it is long overdue, because the way it is run is rotten to the core.

That was not my point. The point is that it is very easy to be holier-than-thou about not living beyond your means when the truth is you have no choice but to do so because no-one will invest in you or give you credit. Many decades ago, there was a person who set up a shop in Brighton, which they swore would trade ethically, treat it's suppliers ethically, and not have anything to do with the big bad banks. 30 years, umpteen franchises, screwed over suppliers, and using products tested on rabbits later ("but hey, it's okay, because it's products that have been tested on rabbits decades ago and declared safe!" and their principles flushed down the toilet with last night's curry later, the Body Shop was sold for £652 million. Could have been different...could have been so different if Anita Roddick hadn't taken out that bank loan for the second Body Shop six months after the first... Business principles are an ideal - not a tenet of faith - and that even applies to football.

Agreed. And we of you long ago – up to the same old tricks here as you did on the MAD boards, jumping in on a 'club going bust' threat to gloat under a veneer of sermons about 'financial integrity'

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude "scha·den·freu·de Pronunciation: \ˈshä-dən-ˌfrȯi-də\ Function:noun Usage:often capitalized Etymology:German, from Schaden damage + Freude joyDate:1895 : enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others

"On a personal level, having been ripped off by Livingston for a significant sum" Oh come off it Duncan - now we know you're at it! You played that tune as well about Gretna! So how many other football clubs are you going to claim "ripped me off" whenever they get into soapy bubble? Away and play with yourself, you sad little Walter Mitty If you are going to pull the pseudo-intellectual routine, at least try and get your paraphrase right rather than just the only other pseudo-intellectual you've heard of. The line in question was by Dr Samual Johnston, not Wilde (and he probably ripped it off from Chaucer anyway)

Duncan, you are just a sad, sad, bitter wee man who is only happy when exercising the whole bag of McCain's Oven Readies on your spotty shoulder. Before Livingston, it was Gretna you managed to get yourself into a permenant studied tizz of self-righteous indignation. After practically ejaculating over their demise, you then found yourself aggrieved over them daring to start again...in your nonsense world the entire surviving Gretna board and all their fans should have been breaking rocks and living off nothing but gruel until every penny of the demised club's debt were paid off (plus interest for their crime of doing well in the first place before it all ended in tears), with Brook Mileston gibbetted outside of Hampden as a warning to all who dared to go against "the natural order of things". Now, here we go again with Livingston, only this time they remained alive after all, and you've got blue balls over it. One of the sadder parts of being Scottish is that as a nation it produces people like you and VikingTON whose only true pleasure in life is that of Schadenfreude. You are more to be pitied than scolded

Hoped you'd walk into that - yes, bought Cardiff's old lights after the Hi-Hi ones fell apart. Something about "failure to do routine maintanence" I seem to remember being the report about why they had to go - par for the course at Cliftonheap really... It's very easy to be holier than everyone else - as Albion Rovers have done for decades - about living within your means when your credit rating is so shit that banks wouldn't give you loans for major development and investors would sooner go to a Junior or EoS side because the entire sports and business community regards Albion Rovers as a basket case just making up the numbers. No one will invest in you - ever - because you live in backward Billy-Bobsville where 80% of the locals pretend that they're Irish and that if they don't support one half of Axis of Evil, they will go to Hell when they die. At least in places like East Kilbride, Cumbernauld - and dare I say it Livingston - a club has a chance - but so long as Albion Rovers remain a Coatbridge club, a pig will break the sound barrier before they can even get so far as being promoted to Division 1, despite being in one of Scotland's most populated towns. And that is what sticks in your craw about Livingston isn't it? For now, they are hasbeens, whereas Albion Rovers remain never-were-and-never-will-bes

You say that as a joke, but there's more than a grain of truth in that... For all the bluster, there are more than a few local authorities breathing a sigh of relief knowing that Airdrie's fans will not be visiting them. Airdrie have become the perennial underachievers of Scottish football - and that has a lot to do with locals staying away from a club that's allowed itself to become a "wee team" for the lowlife surrounding Rangers who are too mean to buy an Ibrox season ticket because they're always on telly anyway. It's high time they stopped getting so defensive, stopped the denials, admit that they do have a problem with a group of little shits - and declare "open season" on them Then they might find other clubs willing to come to agree with them other than the side looking to co-habit with them in the not too distant future (you heard it here first!) Not that we should be too surprised in Albion Rovers case anyway - they've always been first in the queue when it comes to trying to benefit from other's misery. Took Third Lanark's floodlights (still in use!) and were outbid for the stand at Gretna. They were interested in the Paisley Midden stands kit as well, until they were told they'd have to pay money for it & weren't going to be able to raid the Love Street skip!

Of course it's a scandal - that is stating the bloody obvious - but to berate Livingston for being the beneficiaries of it is frankly childish: if Ross County were in the same boat you would certainly not be complaining, and deep down you know it. The villains of the piece are the SFL (who are - remember - the clubs themselves, including your Ross County). They make the rules. They even make up the rules as they go along. The buck stops with them as to how they are interpreted. It would be wonderful if Clydebank and Gretna (the latter having at least the smattering of a case and a direct linkage back to the old club as well as the new) sued the arse off the SFL for these dual standards, but that's not going to happen. Better still would be for Scottish club football fans to petition UEFA to intervene to give Scottish football the shakedown it so badly needs to ensure a situation like this never happens again. As I've said, this could be a golden opportunity - if fans make themselves heard enough - to get through a lot of long overdue changes up here. Hell mend us if we pass up the moment.

That'll be "you are a liar and you know it!" Not being able to prove that something did not happen does not therefore mean that it did. This is the real world, not your regular copy of the Daily Sport. Dear oh dear....