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Ivo den Bieman

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Everything posted by Ivo den Bieman

  1. I wouldn't despair just yet, there's still a week to go and has has been shown countless times in the past Livingston have the luck of the devil in these situations. It looks grim on balance at the moment but it wouldn't surprise me to see Livingston emerge largely unscathed, by either the emergence of another sawdust Caesar, who hasn't yet shown his hand, or by "Livi-minded" councillors winning further time behind closed doors. I'm only going by what Tonsilitis has posted, as he is the expert, but the council's writ will result in liquidation if payment of the rent isn't made, as I understand it. If no money is forthcoming when the statutory notice period expires, an interim liquidator will be appointed and that's the end of the current club. The term "administration" is being peddled about by journalists who seem not to understand what they're talking about. Unless Massone does it himself, which given his MO of pig headedness, arrogance, deceit and general fantasism, isn't likely, then administration isn't going to happen. By the way, the Herald article suggested that the Inland Revenue had *not* received money from the Griffiths sale, and that the HMRC spokesman wouldn't be drawn on their approach to the club's difficulties. Scottish Power haven;t yet been paid either.
  2. as well as being factually incorrect, with regard to the death of Airdrieonians/Clydebank/Airdrie United, your post overlooks the fact that it is precisely by avoiding the "hard option" throughout their existence that LFC keep finding themselves in this position, time after time. administration isn't hard- living within your means and paying local authorities, businessmen and tradesmen what they are due in reasonable time, is. Only Livingston can put themselves in administration which they show no sign of doing- the council action means liquidation if it is allowed to run its course without full payment of the £280k. I can only agree with other posters that any serious "investor" with money behind them would have paid up by now.
  3. Unfortunately for you, the council are being realistic, and if the rumblings in today's Record are to be believed, they're not going to take a chance on any more "extended repayment plans" or the like, and will liquidate the club if 280k is not forthcoming before or in 9 days time- when the interim liquidator is appointed and the demise of LFC becomes irreversible. After all having the current LFC at Almondvale isn't the only way the council can recoup its money- closing down the club, flattening the stadium then re-selling the land when the property market picks up would be the most fail-safe way of doing so. Perhaps with some of the money they will build a much smaller stadium elswhere in the town for any new fan-run club to have its home, but after being utterly burned with this current perennially-bankrupt franchising operation I wouldn't be surprised if the council kept a much lower profile in the building of any new park. The upside to this smaller investment, and the new Livingston football team being fan run, is that the club will be much less prone to chancers, shysters and fly by nights looking to turn a quick buck at others' expense- the kinds of people who are attracted to the current Livingston. Massone may well be history, but he's going to take the club with him unless someone gives him some money to go away. Understandably, there aren't any volunteers for that role. Finally, you seem to be labouring under the delusion that everyone posting on this thread is a Livingston fan. The posts are perfectly "logical" when you realise that they are not. As you're new to the board, have a look under the posters name- the club they actually support is usually there in bold amongst their information. Whilst some seem to feel sorry for the few decent Livingston fans, most seem at best apathetic about the prospect of the club surviving, and in a few cases actively wish for its demise for reasons which have been exponded at length earlier in this monster thread. In summary these are 1. people didn't like Meadowbank being killed in 1995 and franchised 2. people don't like Livi for achieving "success" by spending money they didn't have and which it subsequently transpired they had no intention of repaying 3. people instinctively don't like clubs run by crooks, liars and shysters, all of whom have featured heavily if not exclusively in Livingston boardrooms of the past. If I were Rankine I'd be contenting myself with my existing portfolio of lower league Scottish football clubs with reasonably recently built grounds. The history of Livingston shows that it is a club built on sand, which drains people of money without ever actually paying out any back. Whatever money is invested will be irretrievably lost. No sane person would commit so much as a Latvian Lat to the club at present. It really would be best for all concerned if the current club just disappeared. The fans who really can be arsed and want to get their hands dirty can form their own team to watch at the weekends without any of the bollocks politics or false hopes raised on foul crooked winds. The Scottish game is rid of Massone and his entourage. As for those who are sitting on their arse passively waiting for the next "rich" saviour to ride in on a white Arab stallion and "take the club back to the SPL"- well - f**k 'em.
  4. From what I know of it Cowden face an uncertain future at Central park, but there's no suggestion of financial difficulty. East Stirling are absolutely fine financially and have a working party working hard to find a site for a new stadium in the Falkirk area. As to the bit in bold, unless you're taking the piss, it encapsulates in a nutshell why so many football fans not connected to Livingston want to see them fold or at least severely punished, finally, for their pissing all over the rulebook for years. These are fans who normally are the first to put their hand in their pocket to help another club in trouble, as was seen during Stranraer's difficulty earlier this year. There was genuine goodwill towards that club- the bit in bold explains why there's very little or no goodwill towards yours.
  5. also, Rankine is being very clever. "Give us time I've got 250k" is a very smart pitch designed to cause doubts/divisions in a council already wary of the consequences of being seen to shut the club down. Mind you, if he really does have 250k, the first place he should be sending it is to the council to clear up the problem with the stadium- that's what's going to send Livi to the wall more than anything else. I just hope the council's resolve is as strong as it seemed to be last week. Agree also with he calls for the SFL to set a deadline, but won't hold my breath.
  6. Where is all this stuff about Cowdenbeath's league place being up for sale/transfer coming from? sounds like sheer fucking fantasy to me.
  7. so yesterday was a lot of hot air, Massone is still there, pretty much refusing to budge without a substantial pay-off, and Rankine is equivocating as to what to do next (whether to get involved or not), and the local MSP turned up but has nothing concrete to offer. So, no change at all then and I suspect little more than hot air will be emitted for the next ten days. That's all the time Livingston have left, before the interim liquidator is appointed and the club dies. Nothing from yesterday's meeting, from what I've read of it, seems remotely likely to change that course of events. I imagine Rankine is there because, even if the club dies, it doesn't necessarily mean his hopes (if such they are) to buy the stadium at a cut price die with the club.
  8. Of course there remains the possibility that the "New Livi" could very well apply to fill the vacancy created by the old Livi's departure, in the SFL, if everything is delayed until 2010-11 because of timetabling issues. They will have a tough task in that scenario against Spartans, though, who off the pitch seem an SFL club in waiting.
  9. Their first game against Edinburgh City would certainly be interesting! That said if Livi fold and their fans get together behind a new club in the EOS then they'd deserve everybody's support.
  10. But even if they have no intention of settling smaller existing debts, there are three they simply cannot walk away from- the council, who now seem determined to pursue the matter in the courts, HMRC, and the police. At an estimate that's half a million quid. Has anyone got that lying around to put into a serially failing business like Livingston, and then live with the 99.9 % possibility that they'll never see a penny of it again? I doubt it. Edited to add- there's quite an interesting article in today's Scottish Tory suggesting a mass exodus is needed at Almondvale. The council's rather desperate strategy is to hope a white knight turns up in the next 13 days before the liquidator is appointed. The council are footing the bill for the safety certificate work, in the hope that senior football survives "in some form" at Almondvale. That could mean EOS to be honest- and it's so late in the day that any new Livi wouldn't kick off until 2010-11. Mass Exodus Needed at Almondvale
  11. winding up his affairs in Scotland and heading back to the MLS?
  12. The latest drivel on Livi Lions ahead of Saturday's meeting, is for a united fans group to "call for a vote" for Massone to stand down and to have it unanimously adopted by those present. It doesn't seem to have occurred to the poor dears that Massone doesn't have to take any notice of such a vote, and that, without a pay off, he isn't going anywhere- at least until the liquidators have done their work and there's no club left. You really couldn't make it up.
  13. Do you really think Gordon MacDougall has a spare million quid lying in a sock drawer for that purpose? Because now that legal proceedings have begun, the only way to stop them, as Tonsilitis pointed out yesterday, is for the entire debt and interest and legal fees paid in full. MacDougall is a man of some means but I just don't believe he has that kind of money. Why do you lot always look to someone else to solve your problems? At the moment your fans seem to have an irrelevant sum of money to bring to the table and there are almost as many fans groups as there are fans- all of whom have spent lavish amounts of time and branding themselves (the "DBM" for crying out loud) and not much time focusing on the clubs obvious structural problems. I honestly think the fans need a new body- a united committee representing all the different groups- to take the struggle forward. And, in such a short space of time, its not going to happen, given that some fan groups dislike other groups with seemingly the same intensity as they dislike Massone. As for Rankine and Gemmel's words in the papers, saying the debts are huge and they are doubtful of getting involved/ a deal brokered, I think they are just trying to smoke out any "investor" who has yet to show his hand which may put whatever ghastly proposals they have in mind back on the table. However I think they both realise that they have arrived too late for their scheme to mature, and depending on how events pan out at the weekend could walk away- especially if Massone persists in his absurd stance of refusing to give up majority control of the business. Livingston have had the luck of the devil so far. It looks like it is finally running out.
  14. Two dangers here 1. Livi fans quite rightly are outraged and boycott the meeting, allowing Massone to claim lack of interest etc 2. Livi fans go but disunity rears its head amongst the supporters ranks, allowing Massone to proclaim the supporters as lacking unity of purpose in contrast to him and his badly attired chums. But, I'm sure Livi fans will go and be united in calling for this absolute buffoon to go. As a pack of lies his statement is in the "I have no further territorial demands in Europe" class.
  15. It really is hard to see how even the most astute business minds can turn a profit out of the current shambles at Livingston- let alone the Scottish Frank Butcher, and a man who, when his name is mentioned, reduces Airdrie fans to helpless laughter.
  16. Of course, Giovanni di Stefano, friend and legal adviser to the world's most notorious men. LOL
  17. All that's really needed now is for Bill Hiddlestone, of Third Lanark, to be resurrected and Livi really do have the board from hell
  18. Well, equally I'm trying not to just directionlessly slag the SFL- I agree that there is no current framework in place- but the blame for that (and by extension this situation), lies with...the SFL. After all, sadly, football clubs going bust and disappearing hasn't been an uncommon experience in the last decade, and you'd think the SFL would have a set of criteria and determined responses in place to cope with a situation like this effectively, quickly and openly, to avoid damage to the credibility of the competition.
  19. whereas your shoulder shrugging is effectively a charter for the likes of Massone, Hugh Scott etc etc etc to run a club into the ground without any intervention from the SFL, and, in the case of liquidation, to its direct detriment.
  20. I'd suggest that there is a slight difference between being the subject of a defensible winding up order from the IR, and the subject of an indefensible winding up order from your landlord. I'm not talking about rigid adherence to a set of watertight criteria- I'm talking about commonsense red flags (such as electricity being cut off, players not being paid, winding up orders, constant appearances in debtors court) which would trigger the league's involvement in a situation- after all there are ways in which they could actually help a club in a bit of bother. Looks like Livi are beyond that stage though.
  21. The fact that their stadium doesn't now have a safety certificate and won't for at least a month, and that they are the subject of a winding up order from their original and biggest supporter- WLC- is a pretty clear indication that they are no longer in a position to start the season. The SFL should have acted much sooner and to a clearer set of deadlines than they have done. After all Livingston's imminent demise has been forecast on this thread since last october, and the club barely made it through last season. Someone else pointed out that there needs to be a clear and transparent licensing framework for senior clubs and, more importantly, senior club chairman, so that a situation like this doesn't arise again.
  22. You seem to be choking on your lunchtime kedgeree at the suggestion. Do you have evidence that the SFL are busy putting an alternative in place? if not, I'll continue to believe that the SFL are continuing to do what they've been doing for the rest of the close season about this- i.e. nothing.
  23. ...because there's no evidence whatever that this is happening. Of course, you'd think a responsible regulator would have been doing all this in public for some time, having set Livingston a deadline by which to prove that they can start the season. Even if they stave off liquidation, its by no means certain that they are in any position to start playing competitive games in early August. I'm not clear that all the teams who applied are in the same position as last time. Edinburgh City seem to have gone backwards since their failure last year, whilst Spartans and Cove would be clear favourites. It's not difficult, sure- but it takes a lot of time to do an election properly and that's exactly what the SFL don't have.
  24. There's been debate here and elsewhere that it's unfair/too late to promote Airdrie and Cowdenbeath at such short notice, with so little time to prepare for a season in a higher division. there is certainly *no* time whatever for a proper election, with due diligence shown, of a new club into the league for 2009-10. Demonstrably, the SFL's utterly pathetic strategy is to sit tight, say nothing and hope by some miracle that the fairies at the bottom of the garden come along at night and make all Livingston's problems go away. If Livingston go bust, the SFL are likely to face entirely justified anger from fans and club officials alike at their handling of this, and severe embarrassment at having one of their competitions start a club short.
  25. agreed- Livingston have the luck of the devil in situations like this and it won't surprise me at all to see them survive in some form. Meanwhile, in the parallel universe inhabited by the SFL, there has been no mention whatever of this crisis on their official news site for at least the last week. So they're not gearing up for action anytime soon.
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