stanley

I'm not sure the EoS would have accepted them. I believe the last time they accepted any new B teams into the league was in 2013 after the formation of the Lowland League. Spartans and Stirling University left behind reserve sides, Hibs came in for one season only and Berwick had their last of a four season spell in the league. Since then, Spartans have gone and Stirling University remain just because they were already in the league. If allowed in, they certainly wouldn't have been allowed promotion to the Lowland League.

Yes, I am aware that it is no accident. Hearts (along with the Old Firm) obviously wanted a B team in the pyramid and are clearly happy to be part of the Conference League. Without the three clubs being part of this, the idea would fall apart. The Lowland League also have some share of the blame by accepting B teams in the first place and opening the door to ideas like this. What worries me more than anything about this whole idea is, as you mentioned, that this feels like those running the game are driving it (or, at the very least, actively supporting it). If this was simply a couple of clubs pushing it then it could be rejected and go away but I don't think this will be over after the rejection of the Conference League.

Are Hearts actually "proposing" it or just part of the new league if it is approved? I'm 100% against the idea and against B teams in the Lowland League but not sure what our involvement in this is other than being one of the teams.

I don't think a national tier 5 will appeal to many regardless if the make-up of the division.

They'll be in the Lowland League (or Conference League...) soon enough.

It all seems a bit pointless in their case. BSC Glasgow, Broomhill, Open Goal Broomhill, back to Broomhill. Maryhill, Alloa, Cumbernauld and now Dumbarton. They have no roots or identity at all. I'm not sure why they bother.

"The establishment of a Conference league bringing the best of the Lowland and Highland League together is to be welcomed as it provides a better “destination” for clubs exiting the SPFL. " 4 B-teams and 6 first teams including playing the B-teams in 16/36 matches is a better destination than the Highland or Lowland League? Strange take on it.

Optimistic to think they will still be on the go in 5 years? I suppose they have survived this long with two name changes and multiple relocations...

Fair enough, I just skimmed it briefly. Main thing is the vote against

Shocked that 19% voted in favour of it.

Four?

Although he may meet the criteria of having played for the B team and first team, Connor Smith is already 21 and has had several loan spells and played first team football for Hearts before this season so it would be a big leap to suggest the B team has done anything to increase his chances of making it at Hearts.

If the Conference is rejected then I hope fans and clubs continue to be as vocal as possible against B teams being in the Lowland League rather than seeing it as the lesser of two evils. B teams shouldn't be in the Lowland League in the first place and, as long as they are there, the threat will remain of Conference League type ideas. The SFA etc are there to serve Rangers and Celtic and no-one else and clubs need to fight this as much as possible.

I still can't believe that they're giving extra rights to the teams who were members before 2018 rather than making it equal for all licensed teams. I say I can't believe but it is Scottish football...

Renton?

Plus some newly licensed clubs.

Did the EoS not reject Syngenta originally as well hence they joined the juniors?

To be honest, he's probably only saying that because Hibs are against it. The article would have a lot more power had Hibs been in the Lowland League and he was still speaking out against B teams (I highly doubt he would be saying anything against it in that case). We need more important people than Tam McManus saying something although I suppose every article against it helps.

The original decision to let the Old Firm B teams in a couple of years ago was much more significant than the Lowland League portrayed it at the time and it has opened up a whole new set of events. 1) By voting to let the Old Firm B teams in, they legitimised the concept of having B teams in the pyramid (higher up than the SoS/EoS). As soon as the B teams get in, it becomes more 'accepted'. Every year they're allowed back in, it becomes normal to have B teams in the Lowland League and gives them some power to start arguing for more. It was a terrible decision at the time and I don't think there was anyone on the forum who thought it would be one year only (I don't honestly believe even the Lowland League clubs thought it). 2) The Old Firm B teams must have been delighted when Hearts got accepted too. In reality, this entire thing is simply about getting the Old Firm B teams into the SPFL. That's clearly the long-term goal. You start by getting into the Lowland League and doing well in the league. You then start arguing that you should be able to be promoted/placed higher up. They're gradually overcoming each obstacle until eventually they get into the SPFL somehow. This has nothing to do with Hearts, Aberdeen etc. but Hearts joining helped the Old Firm inadvertently by making them be able to argue that all B teams should be allowed in so it feels like less of an Old Firm vs. the rest argument. 3) I'm not even convinced anyone (including the Old Firm) wants this conference idea. It helped first of all as another terrible argument for the Lowland League accepting the clubs ('it's either they get back into the Lowland League or they set up a new Conference League'). It's all just a stepping stone to them being allowed into the SPFL. Kind of like they're suggesting the worst possible ideas in the hope that the clubs eventually just give in and let them into League Two. I definitely think the initial decision to allow them into the Lowland League a couple of years ago will end up in them getting into the SPFL one day. I hope I'm wrong but it's been my worry from the start. It's a slippery slope from "one season only" to multiple seasons to non-Old Firm B teams to ridiculous conference ideas to eventually SPFL. They'll probably get in through some expanded SPFL/automatic League Two relegation type deal to bargain with the SPFL and non-league clubs. Basically, they'll tie in Old Firm B sides to something completely unconnected like automatic promotion to League Two (and expanded League Two to help convince smaller SPFL clubs that they'll be able to survive in the league for longer) to get it through and say it's the only way they'll get what they want. Thoroughly depressing situation. To think that they could actually be looking at non league football and trying to bring in positive changes that almost everyone on here would agree with e.g. 1) automatic relegation spot from League Two and 2) automatic promotion spots from Level 6 but, instead, it all becomes about the Old Firm. It's such a shame because there has been such a huge amount of progress in non-league football and hardly anyone would have believed we'd have a unified system by now had you asked a few years ago about the seniors/juniors merging.

Yes and the lack of possible relegation for the B teams makes it even more ridiculous. To be honest, I'm against the B teams being in the pyramid at all but, if they are going to force them into the system, having them in a league they can't get promoted from or relegated out of makes it a total farce and reduces any of the potential benefits to the players in the B teams. It just seems completely pointless having them in a league that they can't go in and out of and all seems set up so that the Old Firm B teams win it each year until eventually they are allowed into League Two. As shown by the Hearts B team struggling in the Lowland League this year, I doubt there's much capacity for any non-Old Firm B teams to do particularly well (and this is in a Lowland League still far from having all the strongest non-league teams).

A 10-team league with 4 B-teams in it who can't be promoted/relegated meaning you could have a top 4 of B teams and then 5th getting promoted to League Two or a bottom 4 of B teams and 6th getting relegated to the Lowland/Highland League? Also, a 36-game season where the clubs are playing B teams 16 times? I know there's been some awful ideas over the past few years in Scottish football but this one is even worse. What a joy for the Lowland/Highland League champions to get promoted into this dire league...

I've listened to the start of the Conference part of the interview above and it certainly doesn't fill me with confidence about the future of Scottish football. Is the idea that the B teams can't be promoted/relegated so stay forever in the Conference? Apologies if this has been covered somewhere already. If that's the case then it would be an even crazier set up than the current Lowland League one with only 10 teams in the league.

Is the problem that the clubs joined knowing they had to meet a set of conditions relating to their ground and then the WoS league dropped those conditions/didn't follow through with them? I was under the impression that, originally, the fourth division was set up separately and was more of a trial for the new clubs and that seems to have been forgotten about and now they are simply members like all the clubs above them.

Off topic but any ideas if there will be another vote on opening up relegation from the Lowland League any time soon? Just as important as the B teams and another previously messed up vote.

Don't worry, it's just for one year.