stanley

That's a bad one considering their success. It shows that the Saturday Morning leagues aren't immune either. The Saturday Morning League has already lost several clubs since the season started (I think at least 5 so far have gone although their league has far higher numbers and is obviously doing very well compared to the afternoon leagues in the west).

They should really do a highlights programme on the BBC for the early rounds but I suppose that would involve them knowing anything about lower/non-league football. I'm sure they used to do one?

Well, they are certainly going to be forced to do something about the leagues in the west whether they like it or not. From 228 clubs across seven leagues in 2013-14 (Caley, Central Scottish, Scottish Amateur, Greater Glasgow, Paisley, North & South Lanarkshire, Paisley, West of Scotland) to just 79 clubs across three leagues in 2023-24 (Caley, Scottish Premier, Greater Glasgow). There won't be many clubs left between the leagues in a few years time. On top of that, the Stirling & District league has just 12 clubs left and is struggling to survive (even taking in clubs from Fife and West Lothian in summer 2023). The bigger leagues like Caley and Scottish Premier can barely even take in new clubs from struggling local leagues now as almost all of them have folded. Equally worrying is the LEAFA plumeting in numbers from 73 in 2013-14 to 44 in 2022-23 and now down another 10 to just 34 in 2023-24. At the current rate of decline, some of the Saturday afternoon leagues will be struggling to even survive at all in another ten years time.

If the champions were guaranteed promotion then, yes, it would be an easier route back into the league. If relegation was opened up more from the SPFL then you'd also eventually see one of the clubs promoted into the SPFL be relegated back down and one of the clubs relegated into the LL promoted back up. Right now, it's generally the historically weaker league clubs coming down but once most of them go down, you might see one of the slightly bigger clubs get relegated out of the league too. Brechin were obviously champions of the HL last season and are title challengers again this season. Elgin look a certainty to go down to the HL in the next few years too (if not this season) as they are regularly struggling in League Two and you've got Forfar struggling this season. It's certainly in the interests of HL-area clubs to open up relegation/promotion more. The LL is a different picture due to the huge number of clubs in that area compared to the HL and many of the biggest non-league clubs gradually working their way into the LL. Eventually, however, the situation will change as clubs find their natural level but it's going to take a long time under the current system for that to happen.

LEAFA is in huge decline and down 10 from last season. The Glasgow Saturday afternoon leagues also in big decline and down 12 from last season (largely due to clubs leaving or folding from the Scottish Premier - they've lost clubs continually since the merger).

Border was 31 now 25 fall of 19% same Kingdom of Fife was 43 now 32 fall of 26% now 31 (down 1) Perthshire was 29 now 21 fall of 28% now 20 (down 1) Aberdeenshire was 85 now 60 fall of 29% same Ayrshire was 57 now 36 fall of 37% same Glasgow (all) was 160 now 86 fall of 46% now 80 (down 6) Lothian & Edin was 73 now 37 fall of 49% now 34 (down 3) Midlands was 53 now 21? fall of 60% same Stirlingshire was 45 now 12 fall of 73% same

Although things move incredibly slowly, I'm confident that the relegation spots will finally change. I think it's more likely that the Lowland League will open up relegation first (as the member clubs change over time and more ex-juniors gradually enter the league they'll likely have another vote at some point that is passed). I think the SPFL will change in time too but it could take several years. Hopefully the stream of clubs out of the SPFL (five of the established league clubs already gone) will eventually make clubs wake up and realise that they need to have an easier route back in.

I've often said how great Cove etc. are doing and how the SPFL should open up more relegation spots (10th down automatically, 9th facing a playoff). I'm not sure why that contradicts me also wanting the Lowland League to open up more relegation spots. I'm not sure who benefits from Edinburgh Uni and Gretna languishing at the bottom of the table for another year or two (certainly don't think it does either club much good). There's really no merit in the argument that the LL should stay at potentially 0 relegation spots just because the SPFL does the same.

Certainly wouldn't surprise me to see an ex-SPFL club go down in the next few years. I think it would definitely happen if relegation opened up more/if there was at least one guaranteed relegation spot each season. East Stirling are probably one of the favourites to go down when Gretna and Edinburgh Uni are finally out of the league (we might not even see one of them go down this year the way Elgin/Forfar are doing so far).

And another one gone (Terry McMillan). Down to 34.

Danderhall Miners folded from the LEAFA. Now down from 42 at the end of 2022/23 to just 35 teams.

As has been pointed out, Gala Fairydean didn't apply then. Gala Fairydean - 2002, 2000, 1994, 1966 Preston Athletic - 2008, 2002, 2000 Gretna - 2002, 2000, 1994 Elgin City - 2000, 1994, 1974 Annan Athletic - 2008, 2000 Cove Rangers - 2008, 2000 Edinburgh City - 2008, 2002 Ross County - 1994, 1974 Hawick Royal Albert - 1974, 1966 Spartans - 2008 Airdrie United - 2002 Huntly - 2002 Peterhead - 2000 Caledonian Thistle - 1994 Ferranti Thistle - 1974 Inverness Thistle - 1974 Gateshead United - 1974 Forres Mechanics - 1974 Clydebank - 1966 Crazy decisions included electing Ferranti Thistle ahead of Inverness Thistle in 1974 and electing Gretna in 2002 ahead of six clubs.

From what I can tell, five teams have already folded from the Scottish Premier this season although they're still listed in the tables: 1) Lesmahagow 2) Lochgilphead Red Star 3) Castlemilk Dynamo 4) Dunoon 5) Rutherglen Premier is down to 9 and Championship down to 14.

Certainly sounds like it: "Going forward our objective is to promote and develop the GGPAFL - SMS, as the top Premier Saturday Morning Football League in Scotland". Interesting to see if any sides from those leagues move over or if any existing GGPAFL sides convert to Saturday morning football. Certainly could be a sign of the future of Saturday amateur football in the west.

Greater Glasgow Premier AFL creating a new Saturday Morning section for 2024/25:

Well, yes, I understand that but my post was about relegation from the Lowland League not promotion into it.

Far from guaranteed to have any relegation this season with three Highland League area clubs struggling at the start of the season in League Two.

Are there any amateur teams that could make the step up? The league could have done with Jeanfield, Kinnoull and Luncarty to boost the numbers but that ship seems to have sailed. At least Montrose Roselea came back.

Like you said, it won't take too long for them to find their natural place in the pyramid with 3/4 promotion spots up for grabs in each league. If good enough, all but one will be out of the third division by the end of next season (and Livingston United still haven't recovered from signing Goodwillie). To be honest, the clubs probably haven't minded having another couple of seasons of local derbies before moving up so I don't think it's worked out too badly. It'll be interesting to see how far they go and what the third division is like in a couple of years time. It would be better for all to focus on the future of the pyramid than regularly throwing out accusations about past actions IMO.

Here we go with that same old argument. Kelty joined in 2017. 25 more joined in 2018. Glenrothes and Kinnoull joined in 2019. 8 more joined in 2020. The remaining West Lothian sides finally joined in 2021. The EoS ran conferences in 2018-19, 2019-20 and 2020-21. How long were they supposed to wait for the WL sides to join? Edit: Amazing how you can even find a way to bring the old junior/senior divide into a thread about Vale of Leithen.

Probably a good thing for them and might give them a chance to compete again and rebuild. Hawick aren't doing amazing in the third division but they are competing. Must be better than getting hammered every week. Eventually, you'll probably have three or four borders sides in the bottom division.

Great post. In the context of Scottish football and clubs generally protecting themselves, it is pretty incredible that the EoS did what they did. They could easily have clung onto their places in the Premier and it could have been several years before they finally got relegated and everything balanced out. They did what was best for the league. Hopefully, with the clubs involved in the Lowland League gradually changing, we'll see a vote passed to open up more relegation. Two automatic spots should be a certainty.

I've been an advocate of this for ages and it mirrors what they used to do in some of the lower leagues in England. The licensed west clubs shouldn't be penalised because an unlicensed club wins the league ahead of them (and could win the league for several years in a row). Same applies to the east although that seems far less likely to happen as more of the clubs are licensed and most of the top ones are.

Giffnock SC gone from the Caley 1st Division. Down to 26 teams.

You can take another one off that list as Castemilk Dynamo have folded. Of the 19 teams who finished last season in the Central Scottish, only 12 are left in the Scottish Premier (three have folded and four have moved to other leagues). LEAFA down to 37 with Balerno folding.