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HibeeJibee

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  1. Very interesting topic and coincidentally I've recently been giving it some thought myself. Even in these first 3 posts you see totally different predictions. For starters it's impossible to say with much confidence. I know intelligent, well-informed people who think the football situation will markedly improve from December or January. I know others who think the football situation will not have markedly improved next autumn. I think there are certainly at least 6 aspects at play: (1) it seems unlikely we will go straight from no crowds to throwing all the doors open in a single step. More likely it will be a gradual return with very limited crowds, ticket only, no away fans etc. This may sustain pent up demand. Alternatively if it is prolonged (years not months) unfulfilled demand may start to evaporate. Also if clubs can only get a quarter or half of their usual crowds in will they double or quadruple their prices? Plenty people with the means would pay more to be among the lucky ones: but if they do would prices ever start coming down again? (2) socially the lesson from history is that crowds should go up due to pent up demand being released. This happened after both the world wars, and it was sustained for quite a few years. However there are obvious differences. Football continued throughout both conflicts... granted some provincial and many non-league clubs shutdown... and crowds never stopped except for a few weeks in autumn 1939 (plus had limits in blitz areas for a couple of years from 1940). Men returned to civilian life from overseas, and had few ways to spend a Saturday afternoon bar the pub, cinema or football. It is also thought crowds brought a feeling of tribalism and camaraderie they missed from their days in the forces. In time alternate leisure pursuits, TV and the motor car contributed to a decline in crowds. This time around it looks like spectator sport will be about the last area of life to reopen. Will people have fallen out of the habit? Will some people simply be too worried about the idea of gathering together ever to return? Will other people embrace that opportunity? Will there be a renaissance in mass participation activities? (3) economically the lesson from history is that crowds should go down due to unemployment and insecurity. This has happened multiple times... most severely in 1930s and most recently in late 2000s... and crowds always drop significantly. It looks like being serious and prolonged this time. If people can't afford it, they just won't go - although if they've been deprived of it for so long, some people would sacrifice other aspects of life for the chance. This is perhaps less likely to affect non-league football, where games are local and prices comparatively modest. [It'll also be interesting to see if amateur football recovers in terms of participation as it has already been haemorrhaging players and teams over last 5yrs] (4) no-one has mentioned blocked broadcasting hours. What if protection of Saturday afternoon is never reinstated? EPL and Scottish Premiership games on TV could alter consumption, as could big clubs streaming home or away games that would have been unavailable before. This is perhaps more likely to affect non-league football, where many fans have a 'big' team. (5) streaming will not be a golden bullet. Right now it is vital as the alternative is no spectator income. However no clubs seem to be charging anything like what they did for tickets. It'll cost £6 for my household to watch Berwick v EK this Saturday when we'd have paid £20 at the gate. Armchair fans don't buy car park entry, programmes, refreshments or HT draw tickets and must purchase less merchandise overall. Equally a relative who lives up north will pay £6 and couldn't have come to game in person. Will it enhance the value of season tickets: if you can't make a game, you can still watch from wherever you are instead? Will it depress their value: why commit when you can always decide last minute to view in the comfort of your own home at comparatively little cost? (6) Some fans may have no choice if their team folds. Clubs went bust in 1930s due to the depression. Clubs shutdown in 1940 for the war and never reopened. If forced to guess: I'll plump for a short-term crowd boost for social reasons, medium-term slump for economic reasons, and long-term likely to prove much the same as before. All those guesses could well prove wrong though. Frankly it's a mugs game for anyone trying to predict prettymuch anything currently. Oh and I know: TL, DR...
  2. As noted they brought on Kenny Young who'd played for Edinburgh City earlier in the competition and was cup-tied. In those days the groupstage was still part of the EOS League Cup proper - not the seperate EOS Qualifying League (courtesy which you could play triallists and couldn't get cup-tied). This was part of Spartans historic attempt to commit every possible eligiblity offence in a single decade. Don't think they managed "fielding a triallist last registered abroad" tbf. * on 17 May 2008 Spartans won the EOS League Cup Final by 1-0 over Whitehill Welfare. However, they'd brought on sub Kenny Young, who had played 4 ties for Edinburgh City earlier in the competition and therefore was cup-tied. Spartans lost the title with Whitehill were declared winners in their stead. - http://www.scotsman.com/sport/spartans-risk-being-stripped-of-cup-after-fielding-young-1-1259729 * on 6 Dec 2008 Elgin beat Spartans in the Scottish Cup but got in trouble as one of their players, in fact their goalkeeper, had signed after the date of the original attempt at the tie. Which had been postponed. It was then discovered that Spartans player Dean Hoskins wasn't registered for them - as I recall he'd been sent out to their Amateur team to recover from an injury and hadn't been re-registered for the Senior team and therefore was ineligible. Tie was annulled and ordered replayed. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_cups/7773110.stm * on 22 Oct 2011 Spartans beat Culter 2-0 in the Scottish Cup. However, they played Keith McLeod, over whom there was some error on his form which had been rejected. He had actually been playing the whole season unregistered - technically a triallist - and was therefore ineligible. Spartans expelled, Culter reinstated and put through. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15466092 * they were also expelled from the South Challenge Cup and thus Lothian Thistle, whom Spartans beat 3-2 in R2 with McLeod featuring, were reinstated and put through. Thankfully for them they lost no league points as there was no limit on triallist appearances in those days - otherwise they'd have lost a slew. * on 2 May 2015 Spartans beat Preston 4-0 in the Lowland League Cup Ko R1 but had listed Mark Cairns who wasn't registered and therefore was ineligible. Spartans expelled, Preston reinstated and put through. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32603123 * early in 2015-16 season they fielded a goalkeeper - think it was Ross Gilpin - against Civil Service Strollers in the EOS League early in the season. He still had an unspent totting-up ban outstanding and therefore was suspended. They were deducted 3pts.
  3. Carnoustie say it's 16+14=30 circumstances allowing: I've noticed looking back that some P&B posters held similar ideas for WOS Premier while it was 20-teams i.e. play 19 > split top 10 + bottom 10 > play 9 = 28 games. How would that actually work? Firstly you must get everyone upto game #19 at the same time which is hard given possible weather / public health postponements plus any cup-ties. Having done so what happens if Club X played 9 home/10 away pre-split but find they've already played perhaps 6 of their post-split opponents at home and 3 away? Do they play 3 home & 6 away and suffer competitive and potentially commercial disadvantage of playing 12 home & 16 away overall? Alternatively do you randomly draw 2 teams to visit Club X again, with those teams sufferring disadvantage of facing them 0 home & 2 away? What if that itself creates H/A imbalances for those clubs? Good luck justifying that with title/promotion playoff and 7 relegation places at stake. Any split or inter-conference model has downsides but those are real biggies IMO.
  4. Article says different: https://news.sky.com/story/top-english-clubs-in-bombshell-talks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175 Sources said that FIFA, football's world governing body, had been involved in developing the new format, which is expected to comprise up to 18 teams, and involve fixtures played during the regular European season. The top-placed teams in the league would then play in a knockout format to conclude the tournament ... If the discussions are successfully concluded, the European Premier League would effectively usurp UEFA's Champions League competition, which has been a mainstay of the continent's football calendar for decades. ... According to people close to the latest plans, the European Premier League would not be a breakaway in the sense of ending clubs' involvement in their domestic leagues. ... Sources said the result of the new format, if it gets off the ground, would be to give England's wealthiest clubs greater leverage in future negotiations with the Premier League and with broadcasters and sponsors. ... They added that the possibility of outright club defections from domestic leagues was not on the new tournament's "short-term agenda". ... Nevertheless, a decision to join the new European tournament will leave its participants exposed to the suggestion that they were enriching themselves at the expense of domestic rivals, exacerbating the already-vast financial gulf between teams at the top and bottom of the Premier League. ... Central to the new league would be the question of whether its fixtures are played in the existing slots allocated to Champions' League matches, or whether the prize of drawing vast live audiences in Asia and the US, as well as Europe, means there is an attempt to play them throughout the day at weekends. It emerged (this month) that Liverpool and Manchester United were leading a quest to reform the Premier League by cutting the number of teams from 20 to 18 and giving the so-called 'big six' and other long-standing shareholders in the top flight enhanced voting rights that would effectively hand them outright control. The League Cup, currently sponsored by Carabao, and the Community Shield, would also have been expunged from the calendar or played without the involvement of clubs taking part in European competitions. ... The prospective involvement of some of the top flight's elite clubs in a European super league format would help to explain their desire to curb the number of domestic fixtures to which they are committed.
  5. It's in addition to domestic leagues, not in place of. Clubs want it to run alongside EPL/La Liga/etc. Basically replace CL/EL and cups. Must assume Liverpool and Man Utd's recent rushed attempt to cut EPL from 20 to 18 and scrap cups is connected. Would basically represent 'best of both worlds' for those 16-18 clubs involved... domestic £, domestic domination, continental £, continental closed-shop. Hard luck for everyone else, who end-up with even less chance of ever competing domestically, and contesting neutered domestic and continental cups.
  6. Not seen it officially confirmed yet but apparently 13 out of those 14 clubs in WOSFL who have withdrawn from football for another year have scratched, plus 3 more, plus Dunbar so = 17. Some well-meaning person has updated cup's Wikipedia page with all 14 (including Shettleston in listing but omitted from footnote) + Benburb + Dunbar = 16 scratched. Presumably they assumed all 14 would - and noticed 2 more online; seemingly it's actually 13 from 14 - and 4 more.
  7. It's become an absurdum logicum further complicated by SFA clarification which (AFAICS) seems to distinguish between being being bona fide membesr of first team squad or otherwise. AFAIA that's to prevent U20 activities continuing under guise of first-team activities where players do not actually regularly train and play with the first team; but you can presumably run it in opposite direction where a player does. By my reckoning any individual teenage player could currently fall into 1 of 176 categories for any individual competitive game.
  8. Well for starters may be squad eligibility differences e.g. clubs can use trialists in league but not cups and may have players suspended in cups but not league (indeed Frazer McLaren appears such).
  9. Yesterday at Camelon you saw the impact the injury situation facing our squad is having. We had many players out and several others playing through the pain barrier to enable us to field a team. As a result we have made the tough decision to pull out of the Challenge Cup. Our focus, for this season, is the EoS Premier League and we look forward to being back in the Challenge Cup next season. Worth saying nothing improper in this - though obviously intended for WOSFL clubs withdrawing from football for another year, any entrant could scratch without penalty up to yesterday.
  10. Pollok, Dunbar United and Kilbirnie Ladeside have scratched their South Challenge Cup R1 ties - walkovers to Tranent, Drumchapel United and Carluke Rovers respectively. Remaining ties proceed. Spartans-Kinnoull is Friday night (avoiding clash with Edinburgh City-Cowdenbeath).
  11. Pollok and Dunbar United have scratched their South Challenge Cup R1 ties (walkovers to Tranent and Drumchapel United respectively). Tranent v Dunbar United - originally scheduled for April 10th - has been added to this Saturday's card.
  12. Tried to sign-up for Braves stream after they made it available for free at 11th hour - but it only seemed to work on mobiles. Ended-up with Tweedmouth v Thornton from Shielfield instead. Solid win against decent opponents. Promising if unremarkable start to the season. Very hard game home to EK next Saturday before winnable visit from Edinburgh Uni on Tuesday week.
  13. Heriot-Watt stay top after Eyemouth were crushed again. Peebles impressive win at Lochore will surprise some. Lochgelly-Hawick proved hardfought. Preston will be disappointed at their start. Burntisland Shipyard 2-4 Newburgh Eyemouth United 2-11 (eleven) Heriot-Watt University Kinnoull 3-0 Easthouses Lily Lochgelly Albert 3-2 Hawick RAU Lochore Welfare 2-5 Peebles Rovers Luncarty 1-0 Preston Athletic Stirling University EOS 0-3 Oakley United Saturday 24th October Hawick RAU v Lochore Welfare Heriot-Watt University v Luncarty Newburgh v Eyemouth United Oakley United v Burntisland Shipyard Peebles Rovers v Stirling University EOS Preston Athletic v Glenrothes (Easthouses, Kinnoull, Lochgelly = South Challenge Cup R1)
  14. Myself and about 60 others saw Tweedmouth 0-5 Thornton streamed from Shielfield Park. Scoreline maybe slightly harsh on the hosts whose 'keeper had a heroic first half but visitors are well deserving of a comfortable win. Kennoway Star's loss at Paties Road means Thornton and Edinburgh Utd move clear atop, with resurgent Craigroyston and Haddington close on their tails. Arniston Rangers 1-5 Haddington Athletic Coldstream 2-1 Dalkeith Thistle Dunipace 1-2 Leith Athletic Edinburgh South 2-0 St Andrews United Edinburgh United 1-0 Kennoway Star Hearts Kirkcaldy & Dysart 0-2 Craigroyston Ormiston 2-1 Rosyth Tweedmouth Rangers 0-5 Thornton Hibs Saturday 24th October Craigroyston v Arniston Rangers Dalkeith Thistle v Tweedmouth Rangers Haddington Athletic v Edinburgh South Kennoway Star Hearts v Dunipace Leith Athletic v Kirkcaldy & Dysart Rosyth v Coldstream St Andrews United v Edinburgh United (Ormiston, Thornton = South Challenge Cup R1)
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