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Dunning1874 last won the day on May 26

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  1. As funny as the Italian reaction to that was, as the article acknowledged Sweden equalised in the 89th minute. If you're carving something up you don't leave it that late. Anyway, in addition to the more obvious Group E & F results of Poland failing to beat Sweden or France beating Portugal, we can also be better than their third placed sides with a one goal win if: Group E - Poland beat Sweden by three goals or more Group F - Hungary beat Germany by only one goal OR Portugal beat France by three goals or more while Germany v Hungary isn't a draw
  2. While none of them explicitly used those words, that was the gist of what Ferdinand and Lineker were saying last night - we defended well, worked hard, raised our game for a derby type patronising comments which failed to acknowledge that we were the better team in possession as well as out of it, with our midfield outperforming theirs. In his defence Richards didn't make similar comments, while Klinsmann wasn't far away from laughing at them.
  3. I remember Dietmar Hamann saying, especially after moving to England and becoming aware of how the tears in the semi-final were held up as one of the all time iconic moments in English football and how much that played a part in Gascoigne being revered as some sort of tragic hero, that he never understood why the reaction to him wasn't anger rather than reverence. His point being that in any footballing nation which actually takes winning seriously like Germany rather than romanticising failure, a player losing the head like that because they're selfishly concerned about their own suspension when a World Cup semi-final is hanging in the balance in extra-time then disappearing for the rest of the game as they went on to be knocked out would have taken pelters and their reputation would never have recovered. Anyway, back to Friday night, I'd totally missed O'Donnell's post match interview. You can really tell how much that performance meant to him.
  4. As said on the previous page, if Switzerland win by two today there is the alternative Group A route of Italy beating Wales by four. It's not going to happen, but if we got through instead of them in those circumstances I think I'd die laughing before getting to see the last 16 games.
  5. It would take an outrageous set of results to for them not to be one of the four best, but Sweden can still drop to third if Poland beat them so they aren't confirmed as through yet, although they may well be by the time the game is played. They'll also get a much easier last 16 tie by finishing first or second rather than third, so while Poland might beat them I don't see Sweden being complacent about it.
  6. We're pretty much landing on the issue of subjective definitions of what better means here. You can look at someone having more talent in sheer technical ability alone and say that makes them better than anyone with less, even if they didn't translate that technical quality into being as effective a player as others. That's not the same debate as the also relevant question of who you think was better between someone who definitely had that ability and knew how to use it to be an extremely effective & therefore brilliant player, but were only at that peak for a brief period of time (due to injury, simply being a waster who squandered it or something else) whereas others who are arguably less talented have consistently stayed at the top of their game for much longer. Frank Lampard wouldn't ever have scored a goal like Gascoigne's at Euro 96 and he might not have been as exciting to watch, but he scored double figures from midfield in England's top flight 10 seasons running. Gascoigne never did. The flipside is the argument that players having success is what defines them and proves their quality. You can obviously go far too deep into that argument and you end up arguing that Djimi Traore was better than Fabio Cannavaro because he's the only one of them with a Champions League and history is littered with players who stayed at clubs not winning much when they could have moved elsewhere and won far more honours which shouldn't diminish how good they were - Totti and Shearer come to mind - but there's surely still something to be said for a player managing to make themselves a key component of consistently successful sides without getting to the Traore or Harry Kewell reductio ad absurdum argument. I was born in 1990 so I'm not best placed to make the judgement on Gascoigne, but for what it's worth if you go from the late 90s to today Paul Scholes is undoubtedly and by a stupidly large distance the best English footballer in that period in both talent and success.
  7. The only way for Group E to have third place on four points now is for Poland to beat Sweden - any other result in that game and it's three points at best regardless of the Spain v Slovakia result. In Group F, one of Germany & Hungary is guaranteed to be on at least four so the only way for third place to have less than four is for France to beat Portugal.
  8. Yeah, you definitely want it all settled before we play without having to wait on other results. Scenes if Switzerland pull off the two goal win but Italy smash four past Wales.
  9. The only way 3rd place can get four points in that group now is if Poland beat Sweden. That's not a massive stretch obviously but had Spain won tonight then them drawing with Slovakia would have guaranteed Slovakia finishing 3rd with 4, and I wouldn't bet against that result with how Spain have been playing.
  10. If someone's in possession in the centre circle and you put a tackle in which catches them just after they play a pass and the ball is away then you haven't intentionally clattered them, but it's still a blatant foul for catching them late. Anyone who doesn't think that's a penalty doesn't understand the rules of football.
  11. Lee Dixon goes into the lead for the single worst piece of commentary of the tournament so far, revealing that the reason Havertz struggled at times this season is because players don't have to try every week in the Bundesliga and playing in England is therefore really hard to adapt to. What an utter c**t.
  12. There are two stonewall penalties in there.
  13. Griezmann has been dreadful here and Dembele's even worse.
  14. Could single out a few performances there - Hanley the best player on the park, McGregor having one of his best games for Scotland, Gilmour looking like he's been running midfields for years, Adams' hold up play - but you have to focus on O'Donnell. To have the game he did on Monday, take the hounding that followed then come out and deliver an imperious performance like that is magnificent and says a lot about him.
  15. That opens up the prospect of two draws and finishing bottom with 4 points. That would be horrible.
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