Skyline Drifter

Wow. Just wow.

Georgia away was an experimental line up with a back four which left room for an extra player further forward. Fair enough he was preferred to Gilmour in the other three, which were largely early season when Gilmour was in and out of the Brighton side. It's maybe more a coin flip between the two of them than I thought though.

Yeah, the Gordon situation is pretty unique. If any other player was his age and having played 3 matches in 15 months we wouldn't be having this discussion. He wouldn't be given a passing thought and Kelly would be the 3rd keeper. He's Craig Gordon though. He's been our best goalkeeper for a long time. He's earned the right for a little latitude. I actually think the assumption that he'll go to Germany and Kelly won't is a little flawed to be honest. I think if the squad had to be named tomorrow Kelly would be in it. The notion we'll take a 41 year old with 3 90 minutes under his belt in 15 months and is second choice at his club to the Euros is a little farcical, and if it wasn't him it wouldn't even be a question. I think Clark may put him in against Northern Ireland to have a look at him but he'll be looking to him to play more regular football ahead of Germany to be included. Kenny Miller on BBC Scotland last night was saying he would be surprised if two Hearts keepers go to Germany. I still think they might but Naismith's going to have to give Gordon more game time than a likely one more Scottish Cup tie to get him there.

Rarely proven correct? My opinion differs from yours. That's fine, we're allowed to have different opinions. I don't see how that makes it contrary. I suspect you'll be in the minority in thinking Souttar's a lock for the squad. You're fond of definitive language here like "obviously" and "undoubtedly". Neither's the case though. You may be right but at this stage it's neither obvious, nor undoubted. You're talking about a player who has seven caps in his lifetime, only one of them in the last 12 months (a 12 minute sub appearance v Georgia). The only particularly meaningful game he's ever started for Clarke was the Denmark game he scored in. A game Hendry and Hanley were unavailable for and before Porteous came into the frame (he was on the bench for it but hadn't made an appearance at that point). Cooper also played that night, both being preferred to McKenna. The suggestion he's a potential starter v Germany seems a big reach. Jumping ahead of either McKenna or Porteous, even if possible, doesn;t directly get him in the first eleven either though there are those who'd suggest Porteous is a first pick now. Personally I think if everyone's fully fit he'll play Hanley between Tierney and Hendry. Cooper's lack of match action for Leeds is a concern and might end up being a deciding factor in seeing Souttar get the nod (I still think it's conceivable both will miss out for Jack but he'll have to play some regular football too for that to happen). If for argument's sake Cooper played regularly the rest of the season for Leeds I think he'd get the nod as he has more regularly in the past.

Nope, just yours. And I'm not slagging it off, just ignoring it because it's so very clearly myopic.

Well that presupposes you actively want to promote a left sided centre half being someone who can overlap his wing back and contribute to the attack. I'd argue we have that system only because it was the way of getting Robertson and Tierney in the same team and it's worked out very well. Equally, having McTominay do similar on the other side of defence met with 'mixed' success. If Tierney's unavailable he's almost certainly put McKenna in as left sided centre back as he has done countless times before. Like Hendry, McKenna is relatively comfortable on the ball and capable of bringing it out albeit he's clearly no Tierney. Basically for me it's "not an orthodox role" because Tierney makes it so, not because it IS an unorthodox role we need to have someone play. If we have no Tierney we surely just go back to playing with orthodox centre backs like we did in Ukraine (or in Poland v Ukraine anyway), etc?

As said on the other thread, if Jack proves his fitness there's a fair chance he comes in and both Souttar and Cooper drop out.

Eh? Christie's not even in our first eleven generally surely? He's maybe first off the bench but I'm not seeing him as "too important" for anything when he's not an automatic starter. It's certainly someone with a highly pro Ferguson agenda, if not a family member. Well yes, but it's basically one guy with a massive Ferguson agenda to push. He's not here to "discuss and debate", he's here with a cyclopic agenda to push. Either because he's related, or because he's got nothing better to do than try trolling this board.

I'm not sure why we'd want to see McLean at centre back? I'll grant you it may be an emergency option given he's done it at club level now if he happens to be already on the pitch and we're out of subs or something in extra time but how many centre backs are we planning to lose? We're already debating which of the SEVEN in the current squad isn't going to get picked without needing to see Kenny McLean shoehorned in there too! I'm just not seeing that as being something we need to learn about deliberately.

Fair enough, though my distinct impression is that Clarke has looked to Cooper before he's looked to Souttar, although that's an opinion formed more historically than just 2023. Regardless, even with your stats, there's no basis for it being "obvious" that Souttar's ahead of Cooper. At best it's a 50/50 (as you say). My own feeling is that if Jack's proven fit, and there are no injuries amongst the Tierney, Hanley, Hendrie, Porteous, McKenna group, then neither of them will go and Jack will get picked.

I dont think thats obvious at all. I'm not sure what the basis for assuming Souttar is ahead of Cooper (never mind Taylor for that matter). Souttar been consistently the 6th pick centre back over the last 2 or 3 years. He's 100% been behind Cooper in the thinking. Granted Cooper's barely kicked a ball this season and Souttar's got more minutes in him but he's not an automatic pick for Rangers either with Balogun often preferred. We'll only find out if all the other five avoid injury but I suspect Cooper would still be picked over Souttar if it comes to it.

I'd also add that Taylor's best chance of going is also if Hickey (or Patterson) doesn't make it. Robertson is clearly the starting LWB. If he is unavailable then he can move Tierney to LWB and play a different one of our many centre backs. Or he can switch Hickey who is equally comfortable on the left over from the right and bring Patterson in. Both are more likely than Taylor being in the squad IMO. Hickey's versatility gives him the option to save a squad spot. If he doesn't have that option, and would rather not move Tierney back to LWB, then he maybe rethinks taking Taylor at the expense of most likely Jack / Cooper / Souttar.

You 100% cannot recall an outfield loan outwith a window and play them in your own side. It is technically possible to recall / cancel a loan outwith a window but the player either sits in your reserves for the rest of the season or goes on loan somewhere else (which couldn't now be an SPFL side as the loan signing deadline has passed at the end of February). These are SPFL rules, not SFA ones. SFA rules also cover clubs who play in leagues that don't use windows so the operation of loans and cancellations is different. Looking at the SFA rules for guidance is pointless.

I don't think it's particularly tough in terms of difficult decisions. It'll be tough because he's going to have to tell loyal servants who have turned up every camp that they haven't made it. A different kind of tough. Hickey and McGregor definitely come in. Jack might. Either Gordon or Kelly will drop out. Ralston will drop out. I think if Jack proves his fitness then two centre backs AND Greg Taylor all drop out. I don't think there's any chance Hanley doesn't go if he's properly fit. It'll be Cooper and Souttar who don't go. If Jack doesn't make it, or even if he does and Clark decides he'd rather carry another defender than him anyway, then the Taylor v Soutter v Cooper question will be a difficult one for him. I suspect Cooper may get the nod but the fact he's playing less football than anyone who is fit will count against him. He really needs to get back in the Leeds side for his chances.

I wasn't suggesting he would otherwise have thrown his toys out of the pram and refused to come back, merely that there's no point at this stage for the sake of a hotel room for a week in making one of them feel less part of it before a final decision is made. McCrorie is already in that position. He knows he's 5th choice and isn't going to Germany unless two of those ahead get injured. I appreciate the point of view but if Conway has no chance of being picked for the Euros then I don't see any point whatsoever in him being part of a preparation squad for it. I assume he's expecting both Brown and Nisbet to be physically fit by June even if not to have played much. I think they'll be called up before Conway would at this stage. I don't think the international break before the Euros is the time to be experimenting with things outwith the extent that he may do within the actual tournament.

So he should do what, call up strikers with no chance of going to Germany for the sake of a balanced squad? Whilst marginalising one of the keepers at this point unnecessarily? That would make no sense.

Just kicking the can down the road basically. I expected it. If he leaves Gordon out at this stage when he's fit it's harder to bring him back in the final Euros squad. If he leaves Kelly out (Clark and Gunn were certainties) then he knows he's very much behind Gordon and is potentially demotivated. He won't take 4 keepers to Germany. In June he's going to have to decide if Gordon has played enough football and is still fit enough to displace Kelly. He'll be hoping Gordon gets a lot more game time before then but I wouldn't be astonished if he starts him in one of the friendlies. Same to an extent with Soutar and Cooper. Nothing to be gained by marginalising either right now when an injury or two (Hanley's not fully fit yet) might mean he needs them in June. Same true of Ralston to be honest with a question mark hanging over Hickey, though that's more of a necessity anyway at this stage with only Patterson right sided. He was always going to pick two right backs in this window. Just a debate of whether the other was Ralston or Johnston. It's clearly still Ralston. I don't think anyone seriously expected a commitment from any of the Newcastle Five but their absence in this squad effectively rules them out for the Euros. Basically the Euros 23 comes from the players in this squad add Hickey, McGregor and Jack. With an outside shout for the likes of Fraser, McBurnie, or a late fit Brown or Nisbet to get in if there are injuries in their positions.

Good work from our midfield regulars to be fair. McGinn and Gilmour getting themselves three week rests with red cards and McGregor having himself a wee break till April too! McTomnay not really playing enough games to need a break I suppose.

Yeah I think the 22 named are likely and the biggest doubt within them remains Craig Gordon who is 41 years old and has ultimately played 2 first team matches in the last 15 months (I appreciate he'll probably play for Hearts tonight). It's become clear Hearts aren't going to play him in League games pre-split. I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume he goes to Germany off the back of that. Shankland's incredible run of form combined with injuries to Brown, Nisbet and Stewart has pretty much sealed the 3rd striker spot. Personally I think Jack is more likely to be the 23rd than another centre back and that Cooper is probably still ahead of Souttar if it is a centre back.

Yep, especially as we're getting a very early flight back on the Saturday morning so no trailing the length of Amsterdam and queuing for taxis / trains to get back to a hotel after the game. If we want to we'll be in bed by 10:30pm! I even paid an extra 8 Euros for a room with a Stadium view just for a laugh!

I cope just fine with opposing points of view if debated lucidly. I've said it dozens of times before but nobody has EVER told me not to post. I choose not to, though I still read it regularly. And with that, cheerio again.

Should we not "plan for the future" once we've dealt with the present? I wouldn't be calling up anyone in March or June who doesn't have a realistic shot at making the Euros squad except where it's potentially to cover injury in the expected squad. We're trying to prepare for our best shot in 25 years of getting beyond the group stages of a finals tournament, lets not be faffing about preparing for the next one. Not saying Conway won't or shouldn't be called up, but if he is then it should only be because Stevie Clarke thinks there's a chance he might force his way in to the squad for Germany.

I got one of the very last pairs apparently as they were marked sold out within 5 mins after. 7 points was the cut off. It'll be my son's first away game. I've been away with Scotland before a few times but the last time was in 2000 so it's been a long time! I've never been in Netherlands before either. Spent the hour and a half post ticket purchase sorting out flights and a hotel. Got a hotel overlooking the stadium!

Really? That must have been tight.