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It would be great if (the minority of) folk could stop acting like there was no outcry when Goodwillie joined Clyde. The Chairman had to defend the signing, the signing was publicly criticised by John Mason MSP, Jamie Greene MSP and numerous others, some fans called for a boycott and the story was picked up by national press with Rape Crisis Scotland slamming the move as well. Just because you never heard any outcry about the signing back in 2017 doesn't mean that there wasn't any.

Are people really so fucking dense as to wonder why this is bigger news now than when he signed for Clyde? Possibly but pretty sure it's whataboutery. If folk have genuinely not connected the dots... Clyde are fucking Clyde. Before signing Goodwillie they had people convicted of sexual offences on their books already. So it the seal had been broken. They were also at the bottom end of the 3rd division at the time. It's naw surprising that teams down at the arse end of the SPFL get less coverage than teams going for promotion to the top flight. It's not like (some) Clyde fans weren't against it at the time either or opposition fans didn't (and still do) hound them for it. Just on a smaller scale as they are a smaller club and playing against smaller clubs. And Clyde never had a world famous novelist (or an ex PM) discussing it publicly to their twitter followers. Val McDermid has a massive global reach so her opinion on the matter will have a greater reach than Stevie the taxi driver from Rutherglen. But even taking away the obvious reasons beyond the size of clubs, position in the league and scope of their famous supporters times have changed. The #MeToo movement really took off around the same time Goodwillie was standing in civic trial. That had massive changes to society and how we view sexual assault. Lots of people at that time would have dismissed this as people being a daft wee laddie or assuming the girl was making it up. For the majority those sort of outdated opinions and assumptions are no longer the case. And if that's the macro reason for more outcry compared to five year ago if we zoom in this is also the week a world famous player at one of the world's biggest clubs has been lifted: putting scrutiny on players behaviour again. It's not some weird anti-Raith conspiracy. It's not hypocritical. It's times and circumstances have changed.

The Sturgeon thing: My first thought when I heard her comments was well that's a daft thing to say, the SPFL have no place getting involved and anyway he's already been playing for Clyde for several years. But then I thought about it and adjusted my head - football doesn't have to work the way we've designed it. History is littered with middle aged white dinosaurs like me being barriers to progress because we've patted women on the head and told them oh you can't do such-and-such because the world we've designed doesn't work that way. Another world is possible. I'm not trying to decry Raith's 100% responsibility for the current incident by saying the authorities should somehow have saved us from ourselves and had rules in place to make the signing impossible. But I'm coming round to the idea of supporting any moves that would block it, either by law or through the SPFL's own rules. It'd be quite straightforward to do as well, given that the Disclosure / PVG scheme already exists. All you'd need to do is make professional football above an agreed level of the game to be a profession that requires PVG clearance, given that the job - merely by playing, quite apart from other external engagement - necessarily involves a level of community engagement.

Was going to post something broadly similar. • Coverage of Clyde and League 2 vs Coverage of Raith and the Championship. • The sense that he had "kept his head down" and was playing part time, meaning his victim didn't see or hear his name being mentioned all the time • Rise of Social Media as a tool for getting news stories out to a wide range of people quickly. • On top of that for mere mortals, celebrity users have a massive impact on things now and Raith have 2 very well known fans, one who is a feminist and very vocal on Social Media with a large following and who is very friendly with some very, very popular people (thinking the likes of Richard Osman here) and the other who is a former Prime Minister and UN Special Envoy for Global Education. Dougie Donnelly it ain't. • Talking of Education, thankfully people in general are more educated these days around the issue of consent and women being in control of their own bodies. This wasn't a case of 2 folk down the disco who had a few too many, had a quick fumble in an alley and now there is buyers regret - this was a calculated and heinous crime committed with forethought as shown by the lie about taking her to hospital and the state she was in being attested to by people who saw her before getting in the car. Sadly it appears that rape culture/lad culture/empowerment of women is still something we need to work on but there has been progress there. (And for the avoidance of doubt, this isn't about being "woke" or Liberal or virtue signaling or anything like that and I'm quite proud if being those first two anyway) • Literally the month before he signed, Val McDermid said that if Raith signed Goodwillie then she would be done with the club. A celebrity fan, a sponsor, someone who had put money into the club and helped raise their profile had said - if he comes, I go. Yet they still went ahead with it. • The signing was announced on the very same day that millions of people round the world were reading about Mason Greenwood and his possibly raping and battering his girlfriend. Now maybe if Goodwillie had signed before that came out, Rovers might have got away with it (you'd hope not, but it's a possibility) but as soon as this story broke it reminded Scottish football fans about the Goodwillie situation - check out the Premier League thread to see how many "Will he now sign for Clyde" jokes there were, proof again that people treat Clyde as a pariah of a club if it were needed. But aye "I dinnae unnerstaun why it's a big story a a sudden like"

Rape. It’s called rape. The entirety of your post genuinely saddens me as it reflects how much work is required to address a culture in this part of the world that does not yet fully comprehend the trauma of sexual assault, abuse and rape. Read the transcript.

A message from RaithTV. Will be strange not doing the work this weekend.

I had plenty to say about the rumours of Goodwillie signing, so I want to make final comment before I can finally (thankfully) move on from it. I know the majority of posters on here were against signing him, but we all know that wasn't the case across all social media. We're all aware of the folk on the COYB page; I know some were at the bam up, but many, depressingly, weren't. I'm doubtful, but I really hope that the backlash that Raith are getting holds up a mirror to those in our fanbase who were up for signing him, or even worse, making jokes and turning it into some kind of 'own the wokes' stuff. The position we are in and the number of f**k ups that we have already made over the last number of years, I genuinely believe that signing the rapist could have been a final nail in our coffin. This is especially true given it would have been the new board, recently heralded in as 'giving the fans a voice', who would have given the go-ahead to the decision and have split said fanbase. Given that we do not have someone of Val McDermid's fame, I fear we wouldn't have been able to garner the same movement against the signing as Raith have and after further humiliation from other fans and anger flailing in all directions, we may simply have slipped back into our state of apathy as the club slowly slipped away even further. Of course, this is all hypothetical. I have absolutely no idea if we were in for him or not - maybe we weren't, I suspect we will never know - but given how desperate we currently are, it wouldn't surprise me. IF this was the case, I hope those at the club are thanking their fucking lucky stars that they have truly got away with one and the new board can actually begin a rebuild that gets all the fans behind the club and pulling in one direction.

Did you get that before or after your law degree?

I get that this is an emotive subject, and fair play to those following their convictions and boycotting. But I can’t get onboard with hounding raith fans or calling them rape apologists for simply attending the game last night (not referring to the fishing trip posts from some on here). Folk have lots of reasons, many personal, for going to the football and they don’t deserve abuse for watching their team last night. Target the anger where it deserves to go.

I won't be posting on this forum for the forseeable about Raith Rovers. The past few days have been heart breaking and I genuinely don't know where my beloved club goes from here. It's been a blast folks.

Absolutely. In terms of morally opposing DGW, a sizeable amount of Raith supporters along with Key Sponsors and some very good people within the club are the first people in Scottish Football to take a real stand against his participation in our game. I think the criticism of fans still willing to go to games is well over the top. The people who have brought shame are the manager and 4 directors that sanctioned this move and appear to think that footballing ability alone is enough to make being a rapist ok. As mere fans we have very little individual power or influence . It probably makes very little difference to them if I go to games or not. My main reason for not attending though is because I'm a dad of 3. I simply couldn't watch my kids celebrate a DGW goal or have a poster of him up their room or have him as their idol knowing what he has done, and shown zero remorse for. I don't want a culture around Kirkcaldy where boys grow up thinking what DGW did was alright if you have a bit of footballing talent. These are the guys that will populate the same social venues as my kids in the coming years. What the club have done repulses me. Call me a woke bed-wetter all you like, I'm just being a dad.

Jesus fucking Christ man, just stop. Nicola Sturgeon is NOT the person at whom you should be directing your anger right now. Can't believe you need this explained to you.

Radio saying that sturgeon says the Spfl or sfa should get involved. That sounds bloody ridiculous to me. He's been playing at Clyde for 5 years so they can't pick and choose what teams he can play for.

There are people here angrier about her making a statement than they are about the real story. Obviously, there are people who would criticise Sturgeon if she wished them a good morning but to complain about this? You have to wonder what values they were raised with.

Probably for the best. Been fucking glued to it since yesterday

You get one when Hyacinth Bucket goes on strike.

The “media” asked her about it and she answered the question. You can disagree with her opinion but to say it’s for media attention just makes you look a bit dim.

She could have started waffling in Latin and talking about Jimmy Savile, that seems to be what’s expected and accepted of politicians nowadays when asked a difficult direct question.

I'll be honest I attended the game tonight in the hope that there would be some form of protest against it. Apart from a few boos aimed at mcglynn pre match there was nothing. I won't be back at starks Park until he's gone from the club and that is hard to take. Football has been the one escape iv had during some pretty shitty personal circumstances and that's now been taken away. f**k the board, f**k mcglynn and f**k that rapist scumbag.

My email to the club(for all the difference it will make) FAO Raith Rovers Board & Management I am writing as an extremely concerned supporter regarding events this week. I am a season ticket holder and so are my two boys who are aged 8 and 11. We look forward to the weekend and attending matches both home and away. Supporting Raith Rovers has been a massive distraction through the difficulties over the last two years. We've been proud of the direction the club was moving in, creating strong community links with the community foundation. Having men, women and childrens' teams that the club and community can be proud of was great to see. Combine this with successful season we are having: challenging for promotion challenge cup semi final big match with celtic top team in Fife. As a family we were extremely proud supporters of Raith Rovers as fourth and fifth generation fans (at least). So with this in mind I am sure you can understand my dismay at the Club's decision to sign Goodwillie. I would say the lack of foresight and common sense was staggering but the Club were aware of their main sponsor's stance on the issue and that of many of their fans. My first concern turned to the children attending Rovers matches who will now have to listen to fans chanting at Goodwillie, leaving parents like myself facing conversations about a subject you children should not have to continue to concern themselves with or withdrawing support and losing our Saturday afternoons watching the game and team we love. But, aso consider the impact this will have on kid supporters attending school or interacting with their friends. Kids will have seen media reports - kids at my sons' school and their friends know they are Rovers fans - I've encouraged them to be proud of it- we felt part of the Rovers' 'family'. Now you've extended that 'family' and potentially subjected my kids to taunts and comments about rape and the condoning of previous abusive behaviour over footballing ability. Imagine me and my wife telling our 8 year old they might hear the term rape associated with their beloved club and trying to give some sort of explanation of what that term means. Tell me -did you consider this when signing this player? And if not did you consider it before issuing your statement yesterday afternoon? I sincerely hope common sense and morality prevails and this man never plays for the Club I love. Maybe that way my sons will get to watch their heroes in a stadium free from discussion and shouts about rape. The only way this Club can move forward is to distance themselves from this attitude of football talent being above all else. If you want to be the family and community club you claim to be you have to remember that these players are role models (if not heroes) for every young person that walks into the stand - and for the wider community. You must reflect on your decision making and the very least we all deserve is an apology and you starting to set things right by distancing the Club from Goodwillie. Surely someone on the Board can see this? I for one would rather support the Club I know Rovers can be - one that is family and community centred and that I feel proud my boys support, doing their best in the Championship, than a Premier League Team everyone hates due to your stance about this individual. It's time to open your eyes and listen to not just this generation of fans but the next ones too who you have deeply hurt with your actions - time to open your eyes and recognise this club is much more than the points in a league table!! My sons are aware that I have written to you and we await your response.

As I’ve said previously, I completely understand the outrage felt by people at Starks Park and people with Raith Rovers in their hearts. But I am really struggling to understand why Aileen Campbell says that this move could have devastating consequences for Women’s football in Scotland. Why is it worse for Goodwillie to be playing for Raith Rovers than playing for Clyde? They are both SPFL clubs, so what is the difference? Likewise with Sturgeon’s comments. I just don’t get it.

Sure we can. wat is life

Over on RangersMedia: Bloods up Brother but you’re correct screw the deluded infiltrators them and their team are still crap. They’ve manipulated this game well and got it played under their auspices, but we should’ve been braver and more clever Mate. WATP. Why do so many Rangers fans sound like they're auditioning for roles in the remake of Monty Python and the Holy grail?

In discussion with @wastecoatwillyon another thread we went back and forth on how football has changed. It really belongs on a different thread so what follows is my theory piecing together events as I understand them. All opinions welcome and genuinely hoping to read some alternate views and learn something. I'm not looking to antagonize anybody, what follows is not "fact", just the perspective of an average Joe-Schmoe.... 1975 to 1978: Jock Wallace improves Rangers. Jock Stein and Celtic decline. Jim McLean improves Dundee Utd season-upon-season & Billy McNeill takes Aberdeen to within two games of a league/cup double. This kicks off a period, the only time in history, where the OF have been equally matched not just with each other (usually one OF team had been dominant) but also matched by provincial teams. 1978 - Alex Ferguson replaces McNeill at Aberdeen What a thing of beauty that would have been to have Stein, Wallace, Ferguson and McLean battling each other over the course of a season! Wasn’t to be though as Stein and Wallace leave their clubs the same week, both replaced by their reliable captains, McNeill and Greig respectively. ’75 to ’78 just also happens to be the period one Margaret Thatcher is Leader of The Opposition. With Busby retiring in ’71, Shankly retiring in ’74 and Stein spent as a force since his car crash in ’75 it’s pretty much the end of the traditional working class socialist managers, indicative of the change Thatcher will bring about to the trade union landscape in general. 0 Football clubs in “administration” during this period. 1979 to 1985: 2 English football clubs, 0 Scottish football clubs enter administration. Thatcher becomes PM and over the next few years molds every aspect of British life and every British citizen, her enemies included, (whether they realize it or not) in her image . Every single one of us. People bitch and moan and label her an evil witch, yet when it comes to “Right to Buy” or deregulation favouring small businesses/financial institutions and wider availability of shiny gadgets, toys and distractions for the plebs we all jump on board. So by the time she has finally crushed the miners, we don’t care. During this period Ferguson and Brian Clough rise, but they are a new type of “socialist”. They talk a big “collective” game, but Clough is a Thatcherite individualist and Fergie is a New Labour Thatcher-Blairite if ever there was one. 1986 to 1989: 3 English football clubs, 0 Scottish football clubs enter administration Ferguson leaves Aberdeen. Rangers director David Holmes and Lawrence Marlborough (US-based businessman and owner of the club) bring in Graeme Souness and shortly thereafter David Murray buys the club in '88. With Rangers having won just one league title since Jock Wallace's treble in '78, Murray breaks the bank to surpass Jock Stein’s achievements, aided by UEFA banning English teams from European competition, enticing top English players to move to Scotland. Celtic still operating out of a biscuit tin, Hearts’ hearts broken by events at Love Street, Aberdeen never to recover from Ferguson’s exit and Dundee United peaking with an agonizingly close UEFA cup/Scottish cup double that didn’t materialize. The Berlin wall comes down in 1989, bringing “the end of history” and Capitalism/Neoliberalism is the only game in town. We really are all Thatcherites now because There Is No Alternative. 1990 – 1996 9 English football clubs, 0 Scottish clubs enter administration Thatcher is out, but it doesn’t matter, Thatcher-ism is the water we all swim by this point. John Major is just a continuation but, even more importantly, Tony Blair, after a 1992 jaunt to meet with Bill Clinton’s advisors, starts planning Thatcher’s ultimate victory, the total vanquishing of any other considerations for how to organize an economy and govern a “society” (if there even is such a thing, according to ol’ Thatch). 1990: Italia ’90, a liminal football event on the threshold between traditional football and the shining city on a hill, serves to rehabilitate English football and English football fans. In the aftermath of Heysel, Bradford and Hillsborough much-needed stadia upgrades occur alongside other steps to sanitize the game and remove those pesky male working class ties....we are now supposed to be a “classless society” after all. 1992: The old English First Division gives way to The Premier League and Murdochball. Leeds United are the last champions to win that traditional league title before that horrendous Las-Vegas Beauty Pageant-esque Premiership trophy simply gets awarded to the richest club each year. This is also when the European Cup becomes the absurdly named Champions League. Another step towards creating money islands for the favored nations. ’94 Fergus McCann confiscates the biscuit tin and prepares Celtic for the 21st century because, again, There Is No Alternative….although at least he instills some sort of fiscally conservative ideals within the club, not cheating and bringing about their demise in the process. Without the kind of support the OF can garner, and with the Prem and "Champions" League becoming ever more glamorous the smaller Scottish clubs will be left in the dust. In other 1994 TINA news, Tony Blair becomes Leader of The Opposition and drags the country rightwards, obliterating any hopes of a strong left for decades/ever. 1995: Bosman ruling leads to player power leads to absolutely obscene amounts of money severing any possible connection players might have with every day fans. Those old-school traditional British managers who excelled in forging a group of working class lads into a cohesive force are finished, although Alex Ferguson, being the Blairite he is, adjusts seamlessly to the change. 1996: Euro ’96 and the sanitization/working class exorcism of English football is complete, and with Arsene Wenger joining Arsenal we see the first truly neoliberal manager in British football with his Taylorist measurable-data-driven-scientific-management ideology. 1997 to 2008 Between Tony Blair becoming Prime Minister in 1997 and the 2008 financial collapse / end of capitalism as a viable economic system / bank bailouts 32 English clubs and 8 Scottish clubs enter administration , with 2 being dissolved. Discuss...

I know that this has been said many times in the last couple of days in this thread by many, as well as by myself previously. But I am honestly gutted for the fans here. The Raith lot on here are for the most part a great bunch, and a couple of my pals that follow the Rovers are stand up guys. Unsurprisingly, none of them or the posters on here whom I have grown to like, have any intention of returning until DG and those responsible are gone. For that, I have the utmost respect and it is to be admired, as is the sacrifice from club employees and volunteers who have taken a stance. Listened to the terrace podcast with with Shaughan McGuigan and Andy Harrow (who I know are on here) and I just felt sad. Guys who just couldn't come to terms with what their club had done. It was an excellent podcast btw and the made sure to highlight and give respect to the real victim in all of this. A touch of class and respect that I feel is lacking in most discussions on the topic. The rape apologists and those who choose to suggest a man who has shown no remorse deserves this opportunity can f**k right off. The level of disgust and the positive response in terms of taking a stand and fundraising is very encouraging, I can only hope no club ever treis something like this again.

A proper old-fashioned *** pumping. Never not enjoyable.

I managed to grab a quick photo the minute it kicked off…

Here's the relevant quote, in case it gets paywalled [Val McDermid] said: "When the subject first came up in local newspapers, I raised it with a board member last time I was at a game. "The chief executive of Raith Rovers looked me straight in the eye and said, ‘The club has no interest in Goodwillie whatsover. I agree with you, we shouldn’t sign someone like that.’ "Next thing I know, she’s negotiating his transfer so that’s the kind of people we are dealing with here.”

I’ve actually been taken aback by the decency of supporters of other clubs over this. It would be all too easy to just point and laugh, but the fact that so many have realised how devastating this is for much of our support. Fair play to each and every one of you.

Morelos anonymous again

Looking forward to Diallo’s personal highlight package on his Twitter after this one ️

Aaron Ramsey to his agent.

The letter will already be being written to the SFA.

I remember this thread when we were tying to get a bloke from Inverness and back for 10/6

Only if we find a way to relegate hearts as well.

McGlynn is a rape apologist, his interviews have been disgraceful. The signing has come from one man, and its him.

No one could possibly give the slightest f**k you rape apologist cretin.

Yes it would be bad press we don’t need, the press I’m waiting for is the apology from Logan , the Cove backroom staff and the press that were quick to jump on the fabricated racist story

I'm not entirely sure what this has got to do with the First Minister.

Another agile legal mind enters the fray.

A lot of the discourse focusing on DG as someone who needs to earn a living also loses sight of victims of sexual violence also needing to live their lives. I saw a post from a woman on social media today who is herself a victim of rape and is a Rovers season ticket holder. Depressingly, we are in a society where we can assume a fair few women who go to games have also been subjected to some form of sexual violence. This leads to a situation where women who have often gone through traumatic experiences can't even go to the game without facing someone who is a known and (in Scottish football terms) high-profile rapist, and who has the blessing of the club to appear as a footballer as one of their representatives. The sort of message this sends to victims, that it's fine to commit such acts as long as you're a good footballer, is appalling - not before we even consider that DG is entirely unrepentant. As forkboy rightly notes, this is not something people have to face if DG is a delivery man, roofer, or whatever have you.