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This fatally misunderstands the nature of modern fraud, IMO. The sums involved these days are so large, they can't be transferred in brown envelopes or even in suitcases - they have to be moved electronically. Take the example of AIG - they sold financial investments to punters, claiming they were good investments. Secretly though, AIG knew they were terrible investments that would blow up and that their punters would absolutely, certainly lose all their money. But that didn't bother AIG, because they'd been paid a huge amount of money beforehand by a billionaire to set up the scam, and both they and the billionaire made a fortune off it. And the best part is, from AIG's perspective - it's dubious whether that was illegal, because financiers had already paid American politicians to change the laws to make it unclear whether it's legal or not. There were no brown envelopes - nobody snuck out the back door with money in their boots, and yet surely it was a clear case of theft and fraud where hugely rich geezers stole millions upon millions of pounds. If you tell somebody you're selling them gold but actually sell them lead, that's fraud. And so. The entire English-speaking world knows what a "loan" is. Rangers' case is entirely based on the idea that the word "loan" does not mean "loan", in the sense that normal humans understand it. And yet, lots of people walked out of Ibrox with millions of pounds in their back pockets. David Murray himself pocketed, what, one million? Two million? Three? He didn't put it in brown envelopes, which gives the public a clear, physical image of theft. And yet, he took your money, in vast sums. He still has it - he's living off it, right now! How handy would the money Murray trousered have been, when the creditors came calling? How handy would it be now, when your team is in the outer shitter of nowhere, when you really need it? I guess I'm trying to say, fraud in high finance is incredibly complicated for a reason. People like us can easily understand suitcases full of money being shipped out the back door of Paulie's Chicken Shack, or whatever. We find it very difficult to understand tax laws and financial instruments and exemptions and so on. And that's not an accident! It's not complicated because that's the way it is or because we're too thick to understand it. It's deliberately like that - it's deliberately difficult to understand, because that's how criminals get away with fraud these days - they deliberately make it very, very hard to grasp. That's how your former owner was able to cash out of Rangers with a small personal fortune in the bank, while your club was left stuck up Skitter Street without a pair of slippers. It's theft and fraud, just the same as shoplifting or nicking out of the till. And here we are. David Murray is rich - your club's fucked. I'm happy with that situation, but it surprises me that you lot are.

Rubbish - the decision's a good one. What happened at Ibrox in November was entirely inappropriate. The key's in this bit: Major General Nick Eeles, General Officer Commanding Scotland said: “The focus of Remembrance activities must be on the fallen, not on those who are serving in the Armed Forces today.” The shift this century from actual remembrance to a celebration of all things military and an endorsement of current foreign policy is crass and tasteless, and not confined to Rangers. what Rangers do however is go ludicrously OTT as a statement of Unionist credentials, while also aiming to strike an unsubtle contrast with the shameful conduct of the Green Brigade. It's all juvenile and I'm glad a stop's been put to it.

Folk driving 4x4s who are terrified of using them as 4x4s. On a snowy track earlier and we're not both getting by because of snow narrowing the road down. we're in a Polo, you're in a fucking Range Rover. Get two of those wheels up on that snowy bit bitch.

Pressley has grown on me over the last year due to his change in attitude and how he came across on debates about league reform. He also appears to have toned down his exuberant celebrations and just seems a bit more respectful in general. However, that fandan MacFarlane seems to have found the characteristics that Pressley has shed; prancing about like an idiot, ridiculous reactions to pretty blatant and straight forward refereeing decisions, generally acting like a fud. Hope for Falkirk fans' sake that he isn't appointed, should Pressley leave.

Billy Stark Roald Dahl's Big Friendly Giant

What size of jugs are 4S?

Larry David Boca Juniors manager, Carlos Bianchi;

The monkees - last train to Clarksville

Surely there must be a point when the likes of Henderson, Allen, Borini and others are told, 'Look, you've obviously been decent for other clubs before, but since you've come here, you've become/been utterly rancid. Move on to somewhere where you'll find your natural level, like someone's back garden'. They're awful, offer nothing to Liverpool and actually make them a poorer side when they play as far as I'm concerned.

It didn't really tell me anything we didn't already know. All talk about money though and the only thing mentioned about football was "more meaningful games will be created" which has absolutely no evidence to suggest that will be the case. Austria, Switzerland and Georgia have all tried this system and each time the number of fans showing up at games has decreased by around 30%. I appreciate the club having the meeting but I feel at this stage there is too many question marks over the whole thing. Gilbert suggested that it would be one club, one vote but Jardine seemed to think that it will be staggered votes (i.e. 3 votes SPL, 2 votes Championship etc.) which is the biggest issue for me. If we go for this but give them the staggered voting structure it'll be all over for me. As soon as this system goes tits up they will have the power to change it whatever way they like and it'll be away tae f**k with all the diddy teams. The nonsense about "changing the game for the greater good if we are united" is fucking cringeworthy as well.

There nothing sinister about it, and whataboutery is an oft used phrase on P&B for folk who don't want to address the issues. Criticise Israel in any way and you will be condemned. In the first instance the condemnation will concentrate on any slight miss wording that you may have used as a way of undermining the point you are attempting to make. Meanwhile use of pejorative terms like 'militant' when described any Palestinians involved in incidents is not only acceptable but widely used.

I get the point your making, but my understanding of what the guy said (still can't find the original, only what other sources are claiming) is that it was the Jews in Israel. Now not all Israelis are Jewish, though there's no evidence that non Israeli Jews support the actions against Palestinians, and there are many Jews in Israel that are totally opposed to successive governments' policies towards the Palestinians. So in those respects the statement, even as reported, could have been better worded. Equally, however, how often do we hear Palestinians described as 'militants', a pejorative description, whenever there are clashes between them and the 'Israeli security forces'. No outrage there whether the comments are coming from the politicians or the media. This attack on David Ward is just another facet of the pro Israeli lobby, any criticism, implicit or explicit, of Israel must be jumped on from a great height. The myth that is perpetrated that anti Zionism is anti semetism is part of the same mindset. We need more condemnation of what is happening to the Palestinians, not less. And I believe that the guys that hijacked the planes during 9/11 were Muslims.

And very difficult to engage at times. BTW, the start of the racing season in my view starts with the Daytona 24 hrs....however theres not much racing going on at the moment. Fog everywhere.

I know all of that. The purpose of using the terms in my argument are purely to differentiate the terms of the monies given. My stance is not from a legal perspective and the language used shouldn't fall under too much scrutiny, they are purely descriptive terms. "Re-payments", are made to loans. That makes it a fact that a, "Payment" is made initially.

Billy Dodds If he came to us, we could give him an EBT! (Eats at Benny T's)

"A spokeswoman for the Army said: “Half-time events such as this one will no longer happen at Remembrance Day matches and we apologise if anyone was offended by what they felt was inappropriate behaviour." I find it absolutely ridiculous that people have been complaining about this, the organised campaigns from sites like Scottish Football Monitor and Muirheads website have obviously served their purpose. It never fails to amaze me how far some people will go.

Whatever AIG was doing in 1949 surely isn't related to what it did in 2008, since it was bought over and re-bought-over again and again and again in the intervening period. You can take your weird Illuminati theories elsewhere, as I've said before. Your bullshit would be better confined to the Lizardmen (Who May Or May Not Be Jewish Geezers, Although Of Course That's Coincidental) Ruling The World forum, and the sooner P&B's admins chase you off in that direction, the better, if you ask me. You give me the boke.

Off-topic, but did you know that AIG was founded by an OSS (predecessor to CIA) Operative in Shanghai in 1919 with its branches across China, and in Hong Kong, Hanoi, Saigon, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur and the Philippines. It only transferred its company headquarters to New York City in 1949 just before the Commie takeover in China? And in regards to its recent history it isn't only US citizens who are now paying for the recent $130BILLION in bail-outs that it and many others were 'given' by 'corrupt' governments in cahoots with 'the banksters'. An old American showman of around the mid 1800's is credited with the phrase "There's a sucker born every minute", today the poor b*****ds are born every second...they are us!

He accuses "the Jews" of something that is being done by Israeli government. The Israeli government =/= "the Jews". It is not legitimate to denigrate an entire race based on the actions of a sovereign state. You say that like it's relevant. It's not "The Jews" =/= "The state of Israel which identifies as a Jewish state". In much the same way as the Islamic Republic of Pakistan =/= "The Muslims"

I heard his wife wears one too, Just incase his falls off

To get through the SFL we don't really need that much player wise, we have a good enough squad. The problem is the manager and his backroom staff who are not getting the best out of those players, fix that and bring in someone who knows what he;s doing and bobs yer maws brother. Our wage bill is £6m i believe (yes i know some people say it's £7m) but there is confusion over whether that is just the players or the entire staff. I've read/listened/watched various articles/shows which state it's both. Bring in a new manager and coaching staff, upgrade our scouting system and spend the next 2 full seasons rebuilding. I'd let McCoist finish this season (he can't f**k it up) and then move him to another position in the club without embarrassing him.

Shades, yes of course they were payments. Of course, too, players expected them as payment. This is unarguable. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows this and I have no idea why Bears shy away from it. Did it break the rules, though? HMRC says not. Did it break SPL rules? Who knows. My own thesis (as I've said before) is that The SPL's rules werent up to the mark and I am sure Lord NS will state this. Maybe not though

Aye, I'm the dreamer! Why would I wear a bag on my head? It's only horrendously ugly folk like you that'd do that surely?

Deadline Day on SSN is the most overhyped load of cringeworthy shite I've ever had the misfortune to watch. Produced by wankers for wankers.

(Most) Rangers fans on this thread are deliberately evasive, deflective and try to muddy the waters by any means possible. Thd sole purpose is to take so many topics off point that posters get tired of it. If you think that it is not obvious then you need to try harder and be more intelligent with it. A straight answer to a straight question should not be difficult. There is also the, "decline to comment" option but you can't manage that either. It's all ifs, buts, maybes, this person said etc..... What about thinking for yourselves on occasion and engaging in the normal human behaviour of conversation and adult debate?

And left their deluded fans grasping at any crumb of comfort thrown to them by an English shyster boosting his retirement fund. While becoming a byword for bitter, aggressive fools. While breaking World Records. In Division Three. While boasting of a multi-million pound warchest to roar "back" ()to the top league. Which their owner says they won't play in. While threatening to sue foreign authorities for not letting them in I like that.

I'd like the history books amended too. Outsiders who don't know the ins and outs of Scottish football should look at the records, see that the titles were stripped and it should be clear why. I know that there'll be no acceptance by Rangers fans if this is to happen. Defiance has become embedded in their mindset as much as triumphalism and arrogance is. But, if the titles (as assumed before) are won fair and square there is no option for the rest of us but to have a grudging respect for that fact. We can not like it, but it would be true and we have to accept it. If the conversation, with a Rangers fan, comes up we have had no argument. Now though, if faced with the stereotypical, belligerent teddy bear, they can shout and scream as much as they want but we know that they cheated. We know that everyone else knows it too. We know that if the shoe was on the other foot that they would know it. Deep down and in their darkest moments, they know it. Basically everyone connected with Scottish football knows that Rangers cheated, and I like that.

Well, that's the crux of the matter - Rangers say that massive cash gifts that were never intended to be repaid are "loans". Practically the entire English-speaking part of the human race disagrees, as does every English dictionary, but it's entirely true that Rangers' lawyers may be able to prove that, if you look under subsection c4) of section 3b) of the Hilariously Obvious Lying Scam-Artists Enablement Act (Scotland) 1989 with your eyes screwed up and assume that the word "loan" means "gift" , then these payments really were "loans". So clearly, using a highly technical and complex legal argument, your lawyers might be just able to squirm out of your club's blatant dodgery with both the football authorities and HMRC. Having watched them wriggle out of all your other responsibilities, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if your legal team manages to get you off the hook with the beaks. But it's still going to reek of cheating bullshit in the court of public opinion, and I'm afraid that that particular jury takes a very dim view of excuses based upon technicalities. So you're pretty much boned, in terms of how you're perceived in the eyes of the general populace, both those that follow Scottish football and those who don't. That's why so few people stick up for OJ Simpson, these days. And guess what? That's right and just, and it's not the public's fault. They're right.

Good manager somewhere in him hope he does well.

Don't worry about the "Reilly to University" rumour, apparently the course he applied for only has one space available on it and Nicky Clark has applied as well. Unfortunately for Reilly, Sandy Clark is good friends with the person in charge of University entrants. Unlucky Gavin.

My best ever moment on twitter:

Largs Thistle v Ardrossan Winton Rovers West of Scotland First Division, 19/1/13

I'll never get bored of Varg memes.

Loving this man

Some from that site

North Korea South Korea (by observation of my 6 year old son doing his world cup sticker album)

Why are you turning a trash and factually inaccurate piece of writing into something about Celtic getting trophies. No one wants the tainted trophies. Except desperate Rangers fans like you. Eta. Let's go down the managers not being up to the job route, Ted. Please lets.

You said that the Jews caused famines by usury. That's anti-Semitic.

Nope. I just hate anti-Semitic c***s like you. I don't mind people who disagree with Israel's actions. C***s like you hate the Jews as a people, and quite frankly you are just scum.

Fixed that for you

Oh dear - dream on. And you are correct, the table won't be lying - at the end of the season. Take the bag off yer heed next time you watch your team.

C'mon WRK. I think that there is more relevance to the BRALT in corporate corruption than the several hours you spent with the amigos discussing wife beating. Really, much more relevance.

Not sure I'm only aware of their expulsion in 1290 from England and that they were not permitted re-entry until Cromwell took over with the help of the wealthy Dutch-Jewish bankers that funded him. They were expelled from most European nations at some time during their history due to their "USURY" bankrupting entire nations, causing famines, etc.