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So the club you grew up supporting is no longer the same in a legal sense? Ta .......... club died.

What its got to do with football is that Brother Walfrid & co set up a football club in the east end of Glasgow with the prime motive to keep Catholics away from Protestatants. That led to the Old Firm and over 100 years of sectarianism, cheating, intimidation and violence from both clubs which continues today. Unless you understand the sectarianism that your club was founded on and thrives on and demand a stop to it, then this sort of discussion will continue for another 100 years.

aye, and when the SFA tribunal took a common sense and flexible decision on punishments - reckoning the options of Suspension or Expulsion being too severe - opting to impose a transfer ban, this was met with howls of anger, 'demands for transparency' and all the ensuing madness, appeals etc. So do you want rules to be....... A - Flexible - (when it suits you) B - Totally inflexible (when it doesn't suit you) Ah, I think I know. ...... C- both. Up hands all those who wish they had been suspended or expelled at that point( in june, I think it was) They were options open to the SFA and would not have been appealed successfully as being outwith the options available to the tribunal.

Glennie, UEFA, FIFA, Nimmo, ECA, SPL, SFL, SFA, Charles Green, Jim Traynor, RST, Rangers fans red card to liquidation demo at Ibrox v St. Mirren last season... Every single one has stated that The Rangers are a brand new club.

I think the outcome has, actually, been satisfactory. Rangers being accepted by the SFL in Div 3 is fair and reasonable so I have no issue with that. The handling of it, though, has been tragic. The SPL - who have no shame - palmed us off to the SFL to deal with and then tried to twist the SFL's arm up their back. The SFA did f**k all. The inept SPL then negotiated a deal for our media rights which The SFL should have resisted - and negotiated their own deal with broadcasters. Instead they acted as gentlemen - much of which is to their credit. Indeed, the SFL have come out of this saga with their integrity intact. That's not really answering your question but is simply a reprise from a Bear's perspective. What I'd have liked to have seen may use a phrase that many will choke at and will allow some to cast me as an arrogant fuckwit. However, I'm happy to say it: Rangers were too big and too important to Scottish football to fail. What I'd like to have seen, then, would have been the SFA taking leadership in organising both the SPL and the SFL to accept us back to SFL3 and to accept a common and agreed share of football broadcasting money that is equitably shared across all 4 divisions based on a formula that reflects both attendance and viewing figures. Thus the same outcome for us but a different divvying of TV revenue and with the SFA actually showing a set of baws.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. I actually think, too, we should look back on the SPL and see our joining it as a dark moment for our club. OK it looked good at the time but on reflection it has been nothing other than a divisive busted flush. I'd go so far as to say that the formation of the SPL and the subsequent gloating over 'lower' clubs is something that we should be apologetic about. I agree, too, that the SPL's attempt to gerrymander us in to SFL1 was a desperate act of self-interest. One thing that we Bears should be acknowledged for is that we disagreed with that and preferred being accepted in to SFL3, whatever Chucky said at the time. Still, I think that all Rangers fans now agree that The SPL is, as you said, horrible. Most of us wouldn't have said it a year ago bu please allow us some degree of contrition!

It amuses me greatly that Rangers fans have bought into the Green idea that the SPL, as a body, is intrinsically hostile to Rangers. The body was established to slice off more of the money for its member clubs than was the case for top flight clubs in SFL days. It deliberately installed punitive stadium criteria in order to preserve the status of those on board. One-up one-down did the same job. The prize money was deliberately divided in such a way as to ensure that the already wealthiest took a hugely disproportionate share of it. When Rangers problems blossomed, its leaders strived first of all to invite the Rangers Newco straight in. When that failed, they attempted to bully SFL clubs into ensuring the SPL exile only lasted a year. The SPL is a truly hideous organisation which has done everything to reward, protect and advantage Rangers. That you see it as an enemy says so much more about the Rangers outlook, than it does about the horrible SPL, itself.

Just watched this too Mrs. M, not surprised the Belgians won. The Westmalle Trippel is one of the best beers I've ever tasted and the De Konick is superb too. Not tried the Bush (ooh err missus), but fancy it. Anyway, had a couple of pints of Arran Clyde Puffer earlier. Very nice, overtones of dark bitter chocolate. Now finishing off my case of Manchester Dark Ale, must get more.

[quote name='rw89' timestamp='1356714342' post='6927474' We may have tried every formation so far, but have we tried them consistently? The answer to that is no, no we haven't. It isn't an arrogant presumption to say we're too good to go down. It is merely positive thinking. We've got two excellent strikes who, by Christmas time, have both reached ten goals. On top of that we have a creative midfield who on their day can give any team their problems. Yes, defensively we have a few issues. I'm not saying that we're perfect by any means (contrary to how you attempt to interpret my posts). Communication will improve over time with a back line who are playing together consistently on the pitch. Who exactly would you have us sign anyway? We can't and won't spend any money on transfer fees, and even so who would merit one? So you're essentially advocating that we piss away money that should be used to cut down on our debts to bring in a defender to try to stop the rot before we're dragged into a relegation battle. In case you haven't happened to notice, we're not exactly in a strong financial position, made all the more clear with the fact that in the summer of last year we had HMRC demanding money off us in a very short period of time. If you need any more of an example of why we shouldn't be financially pissing against the wind then look at our neighbours along in Dunfermline who are on a financial cliff spending money they never had in the first place. I wasn't trying to be cuntish btw, and i wasn't even advocating we spend money. There has to be available players who are out of contract soon. Please don't for a second think i'm having a go at Bert, he's a fucking blessing. I'm glad we have him, i just want our defence sorted.

It's unfortunate for creditors but it's the way company law works. Creditors also lose out when CVAs are agreed (and some clubs have been involved in CVAs more than once, just to put things in perspective). Anyone who genuinely doesn't like how company law works - as opposed to just wanting to have a go at Rangers - should complain to the government.

I would think UEFA would more than likely put more relevance on an organisation such as the ECA findings and recommendation than some blogger wouldn't you,considering that the ECA are funded by UEFA. Or does this organsation just get ignored by yourself simply because they recognise the club continuity.

a defence thats been shipping goals for fun recently and have looked calamitous at times a team thats only won a third of their games.couple of major injuries could see us in in the depths if theres reconstruction that would be out of the equation

No and no. Turnbull has said Murray wont receive any of the cup money to spend, nor should he. We arent go to go up, we arent going to go down. The sensible (and right) thing to do is clear as much of that debt as possible - just look at Dunfermline.

Uh, I didn't even mention "Celtic's success" and/or "exploitation of sectarianism". You've pulled this claim out of your arse, I'm afraid. Like I say, I'm not about to stand up here and say "I can't believe that representatives of a Christian organisation would deliberately try to prevent their co-religionists from mingling with people from other sects". I can quite believe exactly this kind of thing went on then and still does now, not least because there's a lot about this in the original text. Nonetheless, an assertion in a book I haven't read, that appears to be based on a century-old article, is not my idea of a reliable source for this type of claim - it's the kind of thing that you really need to corroborate fairly convincingly before you can credibly go making grand proclamations. If you want to know why, go buy any newspaper today, right now, and highlight articles that contain misleading reports. Your pen might hold out as far as the sport pages, or it might not, depending on which one you buy. (And while I'm at it Cap'n, you might like to rein it in a bit on this general topic. While I've no doubt you're right on many of your statements, you remind me very strongly of the Scottish Nationalist character in Absolutely who used to cycle down to the border with England, jump over it and shout "Poofs!" at the top of his voice, then cycle off at top speed).

The main player in this was Celtic IMO. I have attempted to make this point on the pro Celtic blog "The Scottish Football Monitor" a couple of times. My posts are always "moderated". It amuses me that a blog set up to monitor corruption in Scottish football is just as corrupt.

A Scots Quair - a trilogy of books set up in Aberdeenshire and covering the period from the 1st World War until the mid 1930's. First book is Sunset Song, next is Cloud Howe and the concluding part is Grey Granite. I'd been meaning to read it for years as I'd heard it was one of the most highly rated works in Scottish literature but never got round to it, but with all the time off over Xmas hols I managed to get round to reading it and I agree with the critics, it is utterly superb stuff, if a wee bit depressing.

10 weeks to go.

Billy Joel - scenes from an Italian restaurant

Sam and Max was ok, they also did Back to the Future and Jurassic Park but not played either yet

TBH I feel a bit small.

Because you're old and decrepit, you have a weak bladder, and there are a lot of scenes involving water?

Sounds like a heavy metal gig

Ok, I will - sort of. I won't accept that it's been seamless. Rangers clearly died and had to undergo a re-birth in the summer of 2012. That's why they had to find somewhere to play and were fortunate to be offered a berth by the SFL. I don't insist on calling them Sevco however and I can accept that in ways that matter, we really are talking about the same club. I know this isn't the fashionable view on here, but for me, a club is primarily about its fans. Tragically, by that criterion, Rangers still exist, because a club which appealed to a particular section of society, still exists and still appeals to said section for the same reasons. For me, it's the fact that Rangers still exist that makes title stripping enduringly important. Ok then, can I get my answer about what would have been the appropriate way to treat Rangers during 2012 please?

Fair play to the Ton, making it a 3 way title race now!

^^^^^^^ SNEETHING.

Sounds like a Scottish version of Snow White.

Speedos, pair of Aviators and a block of Crisp 'n Dry lard for that bronzed look. Keithy, you get your Mo sorted and the pair of us will fucking clean up man. We'll need to requsition new cocks from the quartermaster when we get back.

Shed Boy, wee bit of advice for you on your quest to hunt down and batter those who cross you. The poster that took the piss out of you is in fact not, I repeat IS NOT French ex-Kilmarnock centre back Frederic Dindeleux. It's just a username. If you've conducted a wee wikipedia search and are now on your way to the Belgian town of Deinze, abort mission. You've got the wrong guy. Wouldn't usually feel the need to explain that.

You wouldn't believe the PM I just got

Hmmm, I'm not really too sure if i believe this. I work for VISA it would be very very easy for them to get your money back, we usually return it within 10 working days. I think you've been given some wrong advice. PM me your name/card number/cv2 number and I'll get one of my team to pull your info and give you a call today.

As I was walking down the Copeland Road I met a total stranger And he said to me are you going to see the famous Glasgow Rangers Nope

Whit? The child prodigy/secret agent has fucked off? Is he writing up his next chapter of incredible events in the imaginary life of a fake Killie fan? Soon come - his WKR years as a Rangers hating dolphin in the sectarian infested seas off Orange County in California.

And we Diddies had the opportunity to finish off sectarianism and bigotry over the Summer, and those in power failed miserably.

The SFA have bent over every way possible over the years to ensure the OF is milked for all it's worth, so it's no surprise that they 'granted' or 'transfered' any membership, they also allowed a vote for sevco to play in the SPL & then another one to play in the SPL1, both votes were an absolute joke, chuckie should've been handed an application form & told to get to the back of the queue. But no..they bent the rules, they allowed them in, they gave them a transfer ban, but only after they signed the players they wanted. Scottish football is corrupt towards sellic & sevco, that's a fact, I think most fans trust the SFA as must as we'd trust jimmy savile with our weans. Luckily most fans know the truth, rangers died, a new club was formed. So can we please stop quoting the SFA's licensing dept as the oracle of truth for what rangers/sevco are or are not ?

This is the only bit I'd take issue with. It could well be argued that what was in place at the SPL was "a formula that reflects both attendance and viewing figures". This however accentuated difference, minimised competition, ignored the interdependency which enables the game to work and was essentially immoral. FWIW, I too think the outcome has, thus far, been largely satisfactory. I'd have preferred if Rangers had been required to apply for admission to the SFL, but the outcome would presumably have been the same. I do wish however that the re-birth had seen someone else at the helm. Green is a terribly divisive figure and while he's pissing everyone else off, I do think there's a genuine danger he'll also be damaging for Rangers. The bit about Rangers being too big to fail does indeed raise the hackles a bit. I actually see where you're coming from, but the need for Rangers to be treated as others would be, was a genuine and pressing concern. It's very easy to mock the notion of integrity and characterise it as hatred instead. For Rangers to have been ushered back to the top table without penalty however, would really have reeked, and harmed the game badly in the eyes of many.

I promise im not a net hardman Pm;d him and publicy posted Theres a few rules i stuck to during my earlier days of scraping at hamilton or fighting with icf in europa bar when we we were out numbered over 3/1 is you NEVER and kick a man when he's down and then stand over him laughing ...

I bet they can't wait.

It;s the SPL fans and clubs who see Rangers as the enemy, a quick look through this thread or website will confirm that. But you already know this, so i won't waste anymore time here.

I'll tell you what,when you and every other non-Rangers fan on this forum recognise and acknowledge that this is the same club since the club was founded in 1872,history continuos from that date going forward, instead of this different club nonsense, then i'll give you a straight answer to your question.