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WARNING - TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC. Just been thinking - as most regular posters will know, the rapier wit that is Bennett thinks it mightily amusing to refer to me as "Norman", alluding to the character in the film "Psycho" (I'm assuming the film, as if he reads like he writes, Harry Potter would be a stretch). Let's have a look at that character, shall we? Norman was brought up by his mother to despise all women except her. After he murdered her, he preserved her corpse and, refusing to believe she was no more, preserved her and even dressed as her, eventually "becoming" her as his MPD took hold. Another of his personalities was "Normal", a just-about-functional adult who carried out the basic tasks and activities of everyday life. Whenever Norman seemed on the verge of attraction to others, "Norma" assumes control and attacks them. Nothing is allowed to come between a boy and his mother. So, Norman Bates: 1. Very close to his mother and distrusts all other women 2. Cannot admit the death of that which is closest to him. 3. Will attack any threat to his "status quo" relationship with his dead love, even in a manner which all sane people would see as irrational and extreme. And Bennett refers to me as Norman.....

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/205975-european-clubs-body-downgrades-rangers-status-but-recognises-history/ Noooooooooooooo

I dont think anyone sees it as some sort of moral battle. I think people just want to have a discussion about certain items that appear in the press/blogs. Hence why we have this thread. If anyone wants to talk about the football, then there is the main 3rd div forum to post on. why bother coming on this forum? If anyone wants to have a discussion about the administration/liquidation/rebirth of rangers then there is a forum to do so. Its a great pity that some folk are intent on not letting people do this. It comes across that, anytime a new topic for discussion comes up, there are a group of folk ready to jump on it, de-rail it and attempt to lower any discussion into name calling and abuse. Christ, there's folk complaining that people are c&p'ing stuff.... surely that's the point, you do so, to bring it to others attention, to discuss the merits of a blog or article.... if after discussion people form their own opinion that its of note, or shite, then thats fine... it's a great pity that this is not allowed to take place. Take for example the share issue over the last few days on here, no discussion has really taken place... some people have it as shares in the club, some in the company... people ask, so if in the club, what happenned to the old shares in the club, why are they no longer valid! a pretty important point i'm sure you'd agree. People want to discuss the structure of the shares and what voting rights or control they give, again, no opportunity is given as immediatly it decends into stupid tit for tat pish.

Be fair, he's got a lot of catching up to do. You may find this hard to believe, given his depth of knowledge of all things P&B, but Tedi didn't actually join P&B until shortly after the Tribute Act got a license to play. Apparently, just after this, Tedi got a whisper when he was in the pub and rushed home to log on. At no time since his old club started sliding down the stank had he seen or heard of such a site. What are the chances, funny old world, who'd have thought it, etc......

The season of goodwill to all men, unless of course you have a valid opinion I disagree with

I disagree. I've moaned enough about the Rangers vote, but his regurgitated claims that the board acted in the club's and the game's interests simply don't stand up. Even if we charitably leave this aside however, I've no idea why he uses his benevolent Christmas address as a platform to aim an attack at certain fans and their apparent agenda. You might argue that the board are entitled to defend themselves, and over the Alloa postponement, they might even have a case. Doing so in this way just betrays a lack of class however, and it's becoming a defining characteristic of this board and how it behaves.

what a fucking twat you are

My clubs trading at a profit, top of the league (20 places above your mob) and in a cup final, hee haw to be raging about, but asked a sensible question and as usual can't get anything that resembles an answer let alone sensible, lets try again Amigos out of the 5 questions below please try to give me and our fellow P&Bers something to discuss in an adult and inteligent manner. Just to refresh the audiences memory here's the questions again 1) Where's the accounts, whats the REAL picture off the field 2) Where's the title deeds? Who actually owns the assets. 3)Where's the ticketus debt gone? Who's really going to make money out the share campaign. 4)Where's the truth? Greene stated they were debt free-Lie, Greene stated he wasn't involved with Ticketus/Octopus - Yet the company is all over the prospectus, Greene ststed TUPEing weas illegal _ Players legally left, Greene stated he had never met or dealt with Whyte - Yet Whyte seems to dispute this and seems to have evidence to back this, Greene stated he had a consortium - Yet hasn't been able to name them. 5) Probably most importantly who is Greene actually working for? Ticketus, Whyte, Murray, some other dodgy guy that hasn't been named as anyone who thinks he's here himself is deluded

I daresay every debt has a start point, but fucking hell - that's the best part of FIFTEEN YEARS. In that time, there must have been at least SOME opportunity to cut costs/reduce debt? A seven year stay in the SPL with the money that brought, plus how many cup finals? Yet still they're saying "our problems started in 1998"?

You should've disabled her with a well aimed kick in the pie!

I know. Could be worse though - he could be slagging Celtic for losing to Stirling Albion, getting bombed out of the cup by Queen of the South and then getting ridden like a knackered pony by ICT. Except, that wasn't us, was it?

Secret agent Norman has the RST under surveillance

The RST board have become aware of a malicious email containing untruths is doing the rounds. Below we address all the concerns and encourage you to share amomgst all Rangers fans. The allegations are in bold with our response below in italics. "Important information for those wanting to invest in Rangers through the Rangers Supporters Trust. Paying £125 to invest in 'the club' is a misleading statement. You are paying £125 to invest in The Trust, who will use your money to buy Rangers shares for the RST." The BuyRangers campaign is an indirect investment into the club/holding company. "As Shares are being issued in lots of £500, you will get no personal shares in the club, and no personal stake in Rangers FC" The RST which will hold the shares is owned by it's members, therefore every member part owns every share held. "You will get no vote at AGMs, EGMS or for any club business" Every member who holds a Community share will have a vote as to how the Society utilises it's block vote. Members will be balloted on a one member one vote basis with the majority ruling. "The Trust are telling you that they are buying shares on the basis that each Trust member investor gets one member one vote. That vote is for Trust business which you would get as a normal member of the Trust, not for your £125 investment" RST members who don't own Community shares will not be allowed a vote on any club business. Those members would only get a vote on RST issues i.e. electing board members, changes to the RST constitution etc. "To maintain that one member one vote sham, you will need to pay annual membership fees in the Trust." The RST is a Community Benefit Society which is the legal structure recommended by UEFA for facilitating fan ownership and representation. By law (The Industrial and Provident Society Act 1965) you must be a member of the society to invest. "If you lapse as a member of the Trust you write off your £125 'investment'." If your membership lapses, it will be deemed as a request for withdrawal. On receipt of a completed withdrawal request form, monies will be refunded ASAP. "You'll be able to buy more than a few shares for £10 - the price you have to pay to The Trust annually for them to use your money" You will be able to purchase direct shares on the secondary market. Once you add in broker fees I am unsure as to whether you could do it for less than £10. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Also the money would not go to Rangers. "I've confirmed from the RST that if you buy shares through them you get 1 share (1 "Community Share" as they are calling it) for £125 whereas, if you buy directly via the share issue, the minimum investment of £500 gets you approximately 700 shares." £125 gets you a Community Share in the Community Benefit Society. That £125 in it's entirety is used to purchase as many shares in Rangers/holding company as possible. A Community Shareholder part owns every share the Community owns. "So, in reality, they are attempting rip off fans who wish to invest in the Club to buy through the RST so the numpties at the RST get their shares paid for! What a bunch of crooks!" A totally inaccurate, malicious and potentially defamatory comment. I would strongly encourage anyone who has any suspicions that this is the case, to contact the police as it would be fraud. Please pass this info onto any other Rangers groups you are in and stop this scam now!!! PS another way of looking at it is for £125 you get 1 share but the RST get approximately 350!.... and they called Whyte a crook! Just another way of lining Dingwall's pockets.

This and a greenie One of the points for raising money through the share issue sums it up "We also want it to support Jim Jefferies and his team in their drive to progress to the SPL Getting to the SPL should be the furthest thing from there mind.By all means raise money through a share issue or whatever, pay off outstanding/important debts,get your finances/budget under control,re build slowly

Given the amount of time yourself and others on this thread have spent lecturing everyone on how... a) If you look at Dead Rangers and New Rangers with your eyes screwed up, ignore everything that everyone connected with both clubs have said about Dead Rangers being dead, and then waffle about obscure facets of company law that you yourselves clearly don't understand, then they're both the same club, and how b) If you look at Dead Rangers' offensively obvious tax scam with your eyes screwed up, the fact that half of their tax-scamming payments that never have to be repaid can technically, under a highly complex interpretation of law, be classified as "loans" ...Amongst many, many bullshit arguments about how your club isn't dead and it didn't cheat or steal from anyone, despite the fact that the entire footballing-supporting public of Britain thinks you're dead, cheating thieves except for yourselves... ...Then I'd say it takes GIANT BALLS OF STEEL for any of you to start LOLing about other people's lack of expertise, doesn't it? Because none of you have the slightest hesitation about deploying made-up arguments that you read on other websites, any time it's expedient to do so, do you?

Orc etiquette? In that case i should have abused you personally. Deflected your question then posed an unrelated assertion before demanding an answer over and over. Only then going into an internet rage and hammering more abuse on the keyboard. Nah wont bother. Suffice to say your cut and paste post was mostly pish.

I concur. The latest pronouncement by Robertson was completely unnecessary, crass and quite frankly embarrassing.

Vikingtosser can you just piss off to your own teams thread.Mind you I dont think they like you either.Nobody really needs your words of 'wisdom' and you seem to hijack every thread to inflate your rather childish ego.

Why would SFA membership need to be transferred from a club to itself? No transference of membership would be what proved your wee dream of continuation, Tedi. Assuming the club survived, of course. I don't believe members of the SFA are companies, after all. They're clubs.

Excellent, I'll try my best to get us in there at some point.

Sorry never noticed this. You have the works pigeon I won't be buying any shares until the accounts are out and Charlie and friends prove themselves 1st. I don't have the expertise to advise anyone on shares, other fans will have to look into it and decide for themselves.

Hmmmm who should we listen to here, the ECA or some wee celticminded ned? Decisions, decisions .....

i know i shouldn't post this after my rant!!! but sweet jesus!

f**k you. p***k. We don't do debt. Just like your debt-ridden clumpany. Except we pay our way to ensure we don't do debt.

Close, he was A. Trialist that day.

Brilliant, so more deflection, name calling and abuse today.

The thing that still astounds me is that this is a 2 or 3 year plan that went awray and the fans have had to pull together to bail the club out. This has been ongoing for about 10 years, 10. For the board to just assume this would rectify itself while yo-yoing up and down the SPL and first division while trying to keep all their big name players is insane. In honestly i think the club will end up in admin and would think a points deduction is probably more likely than anything else

But my body, MAAAA BODY is telling me yes.

I'd say irony, but that's a perfect microcosm of pretty much your entire input to this thread. Your oft-mentioned reference to defamatory comment, in particular, is a hoot! And it does beg the question - are the plastics embarrassed by your multi-faced ways?

Speak for yourself. I don't feel uncomfortable with the subject at all. I've suffered with depression on and off since I was a child. I'm not embarrassed about it or ashamed of it. I think it's something I'll always have to be aware of. I could so easily slip back into trouble with it and I've learned to recognise the signs when I feel it may be about to become a problem. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that some people laugh and joke and make light of the subject, it can be a bit of a relief and I wouldn't mind betting that a lot of people with mental health issues feel the same way. If all discussion on the matter had to be 100% serious, it'd be a lot harder to deal with.

How do you work that out? Have I ever shown anything but a support of my own team, honesty and integrity; coupled with a disdain of the religio-sectarian power base in Scottish football? In Orc-speak: Me hate rangers. Me not over-fond of their green mates either. Me love Killie. You fucking abusive, defamatory, lying fud.

The longer the BOD provarocate over this mess, the worse its going to get!! Stating the obvious I know, but there still seems to be an attitude that they will spend money they dont have to get into SPL!!!! They need to start being brutal and start cutting some of the fat away from the meat. There seems to be an air of desparation from BOD and they are flailing about trying to raise money without any strategy. Yes, it will be painful, but better doing it now before there isnt a Dunfermline Athletic FC to support.

Unfortunately, even though he's being a p***k about it and totally tactless, he has a point in some regards when it comes to Facebook. Genuinely depressed people won't put "OMFG I'm so depressed :,( " as a status update on Facebook to garner sympathy from friends and seek attention, the vast majority of genuinely depressed people will bottle things up, silently let it drag them down further and grind them down. Depressed people, in my experience, don't want anyone to know they are depressed. The sheer amount of people on social networking sites who shout from the rooftops about their depression and use it almost to get large amounts of replies and 'likes', when they are clearly not depressed at all, are in fact harming genuine cases as the stigma of attention seeking understandably grows. It's extremely sad, but it's the truth.

Or have the players be equipped with head torches! That would liven up the game, and would make headers interesting. The ref could have one too, but also a red light and a yellow light to signal red and yellow cards. Also a striker could turn his light off to evade a defender or the defense could use them to really execute the offside trap perfectly. It would be glorious.

I'm going to comment "If my wife puts this in her status, I'm divorcing her"

He might be really ill, I don't know, but look at the lad's face.It looks like he scared of Suarez.

"Shite day, nothing to do, might as well put the fire out that's currently engulfing my car"

If he wants to post on facebook every time he leaves his keys in his car, there's only one course of action available to you. Move it. Just park it further up the road or around the corner, leave the lights on and wait for the tearful 'my car's been stolen' posts. Even better, wait a little longer and watch the 'done for wasting police time. car was parked up the road all along' posts.

That would probably lead to statuses as such... ''Should really learn to take my car key out the ignition before someone sets it alight haha'' ''Must admit, my car being on fire is awful haha'' ''Anybody care to spray water on my car ? Its covered in fire haha'' ''What's good to get fire off a car ?'' ''No wonder I've never got money on me, its all in my car which is on fire haha'' ''You know its going to be a long day when you walk out of the house and realise that your car is on fire haha"

18= The Chemical Brothers Dig Your Own Hole (1997) I remember a description of an early release by the brothers Chemical (then still known as the Dust Brothers, conveniently ignoring the rights of the existing producers of the same name) painting their music as Marley Marl meets the Jesus and Mary Chain and being fascinated by the prospect. The Chemical Brothers are one of the key protagonists of a refreshing attitude that existed in the 1990s, recognizing the fragmented nature of scenes and shunning the snobbishness that surrounded them. As both artists and DJs they were happy to fit into numerous boxes and to just listen to and play whatever they loved - why shouldn't great music of all types sit together without any need for qualification? Never just about wilful eclecticism, it's an attitude towards music that is still sadly missing in too many people, but it's also a hard approach to apply to making music while managing to form a natural whole. The Chems' second album is a heavy trip which manages to do this and brings the various sonic inputs into sharp focus. The breaks, slap bass and Schooly D samples that form the basis of party anthem Block Rocking Beats are a thrilling intro before we're into the frenetic charge of the title track and Elektrobank. These are charging, visceral chunks of music, riffing like Motorhead over the deft programming of the beats. Setting Sun takes the blueprint of The Beatles' Tomorrow Never Knows and updates it into a clattering noisy unlikely number 1 single, and who better to join a Fab Four party than Noel Gallagher, set free on an imaginative excursion his own band would never be able to accomodate. As if wary of their reputation as "the dance band for rock fans", the middle section of the album sees a direction closer to pure techno tracks, the pumping beats of It Doesn't Matter and scorching acid of Don't Stop The Rock inching closer to more "conventional" club music, yet still as noisy and heavy as the earlier tracks. It might all be exhausting if it didn't sound so bloody marvellous. We're heading and climbing towards a stunning finale - the sparkling funk of Lost In The K Hole leads to the pretty guitar figure of the Beth Orton collaboration Where Do I Begin, which stutters and melts towards the end, forming an intro to the musical tour de force that closes the album - the sitar fuelled Private Psychedelic Reel that makes an exceptional climax to the record. It's a career high that lives up to its name and brings the curtain down on this brilliant brain melting collection.

The vast majority of C&p's come from non Rangers fans .... true The majority of self proclaimed experts on subjects like Taxation, legal issues, share issues etc also come from non Rangers fans .... True. Most Rangers fans on here have freely (myself included) have freely admitted that most of issues surrounding the club are far too complex for the average person to fully understans..... True Incorrect assertions which appear uniform, that sounds like "Rangers are guilty of misusing EBT's for the last 12 years", i'm sure you agree. So to conclude P&Bers are sheep who are easily led by any halfwit with a blog. While Rangers fans tend to think for themselves and wait until somethings been proven rather than jumping the gun. Simples.

Didn't going for 9 in a row and a European Cup, just to equal Celtic, kill your club? Yes. Yes it did

WKR Bond does not like it when the plastics are under attack for anything. He's lionised some of the very worst in their cabal lets not forget. Khillie fhan?

Some of us wold rather talk about the fitba and other related stuff but Norman and his P&B chums see this as some sort of moral battle against ra big bad Rangers.

Yup, just the same old attacks wrapped up in a heady combination of a thin skin and macho hot air, all coupled to a sentence about Christmas at the start. Ho bloody ho. I nearly went back last week too. I really can not wait for the day he leaves the club.

Well, as a plastic that's pretty special. As a fake Killie it's fucking hilarious.

That first paragraph alone had me pishing myself laughing Norman :lol: Not to mention the outright of hypocrisy of your last sentance, you're off your heid pal.

WTF have Dumbarton to do with anything? Apart from being shite.